TS-55: Wood Scorched on Bevel Cuts

[darbo]

Lately I've been making a few bevel cuts (just 7 degrees) with my TS-55 lately and am finding that whether I'm cutting 3/4" plywood or solid wood boards (oak), all my bevel cuts are scorching the wood. I get none of this scorching when making simple 90 degree cuts, so I'm a bit puzzled why I'm getting it only on bevel cuts. I tried going very slow, but the feed rate seems to have no impact. Any solutions? The only thing I can think of is that my blade must not be perfectly parallel to the guide rail...

Thanks,
David

 

[mouppe]

Actually, I think your feed rate is too slow. The same goes for routers- when your feed rate is too slow the wood will burn.

Richard.

 

[danrush]

I generally cut 30 or 45 degree angles, but the problem I had may apply.  I found that the saw wants to lean, or tilt, into the cut, lifting the base plate away from the guide rail.  My solution is to now use my left hand to firmly hold the base plate to the rail while cutting.

Dan

 

[Brice Burrell]

David, first I'd like to welcome you to the forum.

Actually, I think your feed rate is too slow. The same goes for routers- when your feed rate is too slow the wood will burn.

Richard.

It could be feed rate if he's going really slow.

I generally cut 30 or 45 degree angles, but the problem I had may apply.  I found that tha saw wants to lean into, or tilt into the cut, lifting the base plate away from the guide rail.  My solution is to now use my left hand to firmly hold the base plate to the rail while cutting.

Dan

This seems more likely to be the culprit to me.

Lately I've been making a few bevel cuts (just 7 degrees) with my TS-55 lately and am finding that whether I'm cutting 3/4" plywood or solid wood boards (oak), all my bevel cuts are scorching the wood. I get none of this scorching when making simple 90 degree cuts, so I'm a bit puzzled why I'm getting it only on bevel cuts. I tried going very slow, but the feed rate seems to have no impact. Any solutions? The only thing I can think of is that my blade must not be perfectly parallel to the guide rail...

Thanks,
David

The blade isn't supposed to be perfectly parallel to rail. It should be slighted "toed" with the back edge of the blade ever so slightly away from the rail. Your saw might be toed a little too much or maybe not enough. I know one of Rick C's supplemental manuals talks about this and how to make adjustments. I'll try to track down link for you. Check out page 12, Matching the TS 55 to an Existing Guide Rail.Or you can call Festool's service department and they can help you get to the bottom of this in no time. You'll fine the phone # on your saw.

 

[slb]

I think the key clue is that he is getting burning on bevel cuts but not on straight ones.  That strongly implicates the second idea, that the saw is tilting a bit on the guide rail, putting side pressure on the blade.  I'd think toe-in would affect both types of cuts.

 

[Neill]

Lately I've been making a few bevel cuts (just 7 degrees) with my TS-55 lately and am finding that whether I'm cutting 3/4" plywood or solid wood boards (oak), all my bevel cuts are scorching the wood. I get none of this scorching when making simple 90 degree cuts, so I'm a bit puzzled why I'm getting it only on bevel cuts. I tried going very slow, but the feed rate seems to have no impact. Any solutions? The only thing I can think of is that my blade must not be perfectly parallel to the guide rail...

Thanks,
David

Darbo,

Funny.  I have never tried to cut bevels until yesterday.    I have always been a 90d guy.  I cut 15d with my Kapex and with my TS-55 in making a planter box.   All the pieces came together perfectly.  I surprised myself for doing it on the first try.

The thing is, I had the same "scorching" problem with my TS-55.  Not the entire cut, just in spots.  I didn't think much about it because it was concealed after assembly.  I guess I will have to look into this more.

Neill

 

[danrush]

I just came in from the shop after cutting some bevels, and had another thought: 

Proper material support is always important, but probably even more on bevel cuts.  On 90d cuts, if the material isn't fully supported, the two pieces of stock will just drop down.  On bevel cuts, even with the riving knife, it's possible for the stock side of the material to fall into the cut-away piece,  just the tiniest movement could cause burning without actually binding the blade.

Dan

 

[Rob-GB]

I just came in from the shop after cutting some bevels, and had another thought: 

Proper material support is always important, but probably even more on bevel cuts.   On 90d cuts, if the material isn't fully supported, the two pieces of stock will just drop down.  On bevel cuts, even with the riving knife, it's possible for the stock side of the material to fall into the cut-away piece,  just the tiniest movement could cause burning without actually binding the blade.

Dan

I was thinking the same thing, just I could not find a way to articulate the reason as well as you have. It has been a rough day! I think I need beer on a Monday night, so it is real rough. [embarassed]
Rob.

 

[darbo]

I just came in from the shop after cutting some bevels, and had another thought: 

Proper material support is always important, but probably even more on bevel cuts.  On 90d cuts, if the material isn't fully supported, the two pieces of stock will just drop down.  On bevel cuts, even with the riving knife, it's possible for the stock side of the material to fall into the cut-away piece,  just the tiniest movement could cause burning without actually binding the blade.

Dan

This could well be the answer. The worst burning I experienced was yesterday when I was bevel-cutting a narrow oak board (4"w x 72"l). I clamped the guide rail to the wood as well as to sacrificial mdf board below, but perhaps the narrowness of the board I was cutting posed more of a challenge to secure than I had thought. Bevel-cutting 3/4" ply produced far less scorch marks, and a sheet of ply is obviously much easy to keep supported. In any case, my bevel angle was very slight (only 7 degrees), so I'm a bit surprised that I'm getting such different cutting results from a mere 7 degrees of blade angle difference. In reality I'm not too concerned  because the scorched bevels won't be exposed in my project, but if I'm smoking oak my preference is to limit it barbecuing a beef brisket...  [wink]

BTW, I've had my TS-55 for just over a month and wowee, what a saw!!! I migrated to Festool from a competing guide rail system and the TS-55 is one of several Festool tools that are making me a very happy woodworker.

Thanks for all the suggestions, there is a lot of potential solutions here already. I'll also try the other suggestion of placing more weight on the grip on left side of the saw and take a good look at the link that Brice provided.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Ripping narrow stuff under the guide rail can be a problem since the guide rail is not flat underneath.
So, you may have two separate issues since you say you also get some burning when beveling plywood.

It would help if you identify which piece of wood has the most burning. The piece under the rail or the off-cut?

 

[Neill]

Darbo,

You bring to mind an interesting few thoughts that I may have missed mentioned by other posters.  If so, I apologise.  Maybe someone with more experience than I can comment on this.

That is, would the type of material affect the scorching?  You were using oak.  I was cutting African mahogany.  They are both relatively heavy yet porous.  Could that present a problem?

The other thing is the speed of the blade.  Should I be adjusting from "6" where I normally leave it to something less?

Neill

 

[darbo]

Ripping narrow stuff under the guide rail can be a problem since the guide rail is not flat underneath.
So, you may have two separate issues since you say you also get some burning when beveling plywood.

It would help if you identify which piece of wood has the most burning. The piece under the rail or the off-cut?

It was the piece under the rail that was scorched. I did have additional pieces of oak (same thickness) under the guide rail, so the rail should have been fully suported...at least I thought so anyway...

Oh, I nearly forgot to mention this little factoid: As an experiment I also tried shaving off 1/16" - thinner than the blade - and I still got exactly the same degree of scorching, so that would seem (to me) to make the blade-binding theory less likely.

 

[Warrior]

Are both front and back bevel knobs tight? Is the rail clamped?

 

[Nigel]

              Darbo,

                        Could a dull blade be causing your problem?

 

[Michael Kellough]

I'd still suspect the stick is moving. When I have to rip narrow stuff under the guide rail
I tape it securely to the auxiliary support sticks so it can't rock. Notice that the rubber strip
will bear down on the stick but (depending on the width of the stick) nothing else touches it.
That is a recipe for movement and burning.

As others have mentioned the saw blade could be dirty and the feed rate could be too slow.
Since this is a bevel cut and a rip you could be near the limit of the saw/blade's capacity.
Maybe a courser blade to allow a faster feed rate?

 

[darbo]

I'd still suspect the stick is moving. When I have to rip narrow stuff under the guide rail
I tape it securely to the auxiliary support sticks so it can't rock. Notice that the rubber strip
will bear down on the stick but (depending on the width of the stick) nothing else touches it.
That is a recipe for movement and burning.

As others have mentioned the saw blade could be dirty and the feed rate could be too slow.
Since this is a bevel cut and a rip you could be near the limit of the saw/blade's capacity.
Maybe a courser blade to allow a faster feed rate?

Michael,
I sense that you're probably right on...those appear to be excellent suggestions. I've only had the saw about a month, and have made a grand total of 6 bevel cuts so far. Obviously I need more experience with this saw. When I complete my current project, I hope to take some time for experimentation to master the technique of cutting bevels and working with narrow pieces with the TS-55.

I do so appreciate all the replies and helpful suggestions!

 

[darbo]

I still haven't resolved this issue yet and it's even worse than I previously thought. Even simple non-bevel cuts are scorching when I cut through 3/4" birch plywood. Although it is definitely worse when I slow down my feed rate, it's happening whether I push the saw at max speed (as fast as I can push it) or slower. The only answer I can think of now is that my blade is bad. It does look a bit gummed with pitch build-up and could certainly stand a cleaning, but it just shocks me that the blade would already need cleaning/sharpening after only 1 1/2 months of modest use. I'm planning to order a Tenryu 28 tooth blade to replace the stock blade, as that blade appears to be an excellent one for the TS-55; so maybe that will fix the issue. If that doesn't work, then I guess I'll have to send it to Festool to look at... [scratch chin]

One thing I did do in my first bevel-cut attempts is that I didn't understand that there was a bevel lock at both ends of the saw, so on my first cut I had locked it down in front (a modest 7 degrees) while the rear was still locked at 0. So, did I bugger-up my saw with that single newbie mistake? Being a newbie is such a dangerous thing! [scared]

BTW: I looked at the callibration info on the supplemental TS-55 that Brice linked to, but that instruction assumes you already have another Festool saw to calibrate to, and it doesn't appear useful if you're trying to calibrate a TS-55 without another correctly calibrated reference saw.

 

[jmbfestool]

I still haven't resolved this issue yet and it's even worse than I previously thought. Even simple non-bevel cuts are scorching when I cut through 3/4" birch plywood. Although it is definitely worse when I slow down my feed rate, it's happening whether I push the saw at max speed (as fast as I can push it) or slower. The only answer I can think of now is that my blade is bad. It does look a bit gummed with pitch build-up and could certainly stand a cleaning, but it just shocks me that the blade would already need cleaning/sharpening after only 1 1/2 months of modest use. I'm planning to order a Tenryu 28 tooth blade to replace the stock blade, as that blade appears to be an excellent one for the TS-55; so maybe that will fix the issue. If that doesn't work, then I guess I'll have to send it to Festool to look at... [scratch chin]

One thing I did do in my first bevel-cut attempts is that I didn't understand that there was a bevel lock at both ends of the saw, so on my first cut I had locked it down in front (a modest 7 degrees) while the rear was still locked at 0. So, did I bugger-up my saw with that single newbie mistake? Being a newbie is such a dangerous thing! [scared]

BTW: I looked at the callibration info on the supplemental TS-55 that Brice linked to, but that instruction assumes you already have another Festool saw to calibrate to, and it doesn't appear useful if you're trying to calibrate a TS-55 without another correctly calibrated reference saw.

Umm maybe you have worn the blade out quicker than you normaly would of done because of twisting the TS-55 like you said and burning because being a newbie you only loosen the front one. That was properly your problem because I have cut many angle cuts and never had any problems mainly in MDF and PLY but also 22mm hardwood.

Didnt you realise that the saw wouldnt move easily to the 7 degrees?!?!? Did you never try and do a 45degree cut because if you did you would of soon realised you wasnt able to get the saw any were near 45 degree because of the back knob still being tight and so would of looked around to figure out why you cant do a 45?!?!?!?!??! lol silly silly

Any way I dont think 7degree twist is enough to of caused any damage to your TS55 but it obviously caused damaged or more wear to your blade but it replaceable . I will have a look at mine tomoro and see how much pressure you need to get it to 7degrees but still have the rear knob tight.

 

[Corwin]

... The only answer I can think of now is that my blade is bad. It does look a bit gummed with pitch build-up and could certainly stand a cleaning, but it just shocks me that the blade would already need cleaning/sharpening after only 1 1/2 months of modest use. ...

You might find that a cleaning is all that is needed.  The Festool blades will hold up well and it may be that, due to all the burning, the blade is just too gummed up.

One thing I did do in my first bevel-cut attempts is that I didn't understand that there was a bevel lock at both ends of the saw, so on my first cut I had locked it down in front (a modest 7 degrees) while the rear was still locked at 0. So, did I bugger-up my saw with that single newbie mistake? Being a newbie is such a dangerous thing! [scared]

BTW: I looked at the callibration info on the supplemental TS-55 that Brice linked to, but that instruction assumes you already have another Festool saw to calibrate to, and it doesn't appear useful if you're trying to calibrate a TS-55 without another correctly calibrated reference saw.

You can probably readjust your saw just fine.  Place the guide rail on some material and align the edge of that material flush with the edge of the splinter strip on your guide rail.  Set the saw on the rail and make sure the gibs are adjusted correctly to remove any play between the saw and rail.  Now you should be able to proceed with the calibration of your saw as described in the supplemental manual.  Afterwards, position the guide rail on some material to make a cut and make a cut -- a 90 degree cut, not a bevel -- and then go back and check your calibration again.  This should put things right.

 

[darbo]

Didnt you realise that the saw wouldnt move easily to the 7 degrees?!?!? Did you never try and do a 45degree cut because if you did you would of soon realised you wasnt able to get the saw any were near 45 degree because of the back knob still being tight and so would of looked around to figure out why you cant do a 45?!?!?!?!??! lol silly silly

What a gracious reply! I'm looking forward to more of your...umm..."help". [wink] Aside from the enjoyment I derived from being deservedly upbraided as an idiot in such a clever round-about humorous manner, I do appreciate your assessment that my error may have only screwed up the blade and not the saw itself...that would indeed be good! If you're right that my mistake is the cause of my problem, then I regret not admitting this mistake earlier. I had only made one cut before realizing my error, so I hadn't thought much of it until now, but maybe one ill-advised cut was one cut too many.

I'll try cleaning my stock blade, per Corwin's suggestion, and if that doesn't clear things up, then I'll order that Tenryu blade (might do that anyway as it looks like a good one).

This Festool newbie very much appreciates all the feedback and replies!!!

David