TSO rail square not square

[LumberSmith]

Hi all,

I just received my TSO GRS-16 PE rail square and I cannot get a square cut to save my life. I’ve taken off the factory edge and tried it on multiple pieces (probably 20 cuts) and get the same consistent result again and again. I’ve also tried using a different/shorter rail and same thing. Clamping both ends has no effect either.  It’s about a 1/16” off over 34” and 1/32” over 17”.

I would normally assume it’s me but the fact that it’s always off the same amount on every cut, isn’t square to the parallel guides I bought from TSO, doesn’t square up to any of my squares, and the fact that I get the same result on different rails makes me wonder if it’s the rail square that isn’t square.

Has anybody else had this problem?

Thanks in advanced,
Tyler

 

[LumberSmith]

I should also mention that the 5 cut method of referencing the previous cut edge doesn’t work either.

 

[usernumber1]

mine is square within 0.5mm over the length of the FS 1400/2 rail. i don't think i've ever clamped it

the edge you put the grs on has to be flat. i just let the rail fall the 3-4 in it was raised while aligning the grs edge

do you end up with a right trapezoid after 20 cuts or what?

 

[GigaWatt]

I should also mention that the 5 cut method of referencing the previous cut edge doesn’t work either.

/

Never had a problem with mine using it on 1400/2, cuts perfectly square.
You need to contact TSO, they have great customer service.

 

[afish]

I was not a fan of the TSO rail square either.  It was fine for trimming down doors and quick cross cuts on narrower stock not 48-49" with a 1400 rail.  I got rid of it and bought the TSO MTR triangle or whatever its called.  I like it much, much better.  It comes in handy for many other tasks too as well as squaring a rail up for cross cuts when Im not using a fence and rail hinge thingy (sorry I dont have the correct names or part #'s) most of it is built by me anyways.  Either way it might not be as convenient as having something clipped to the rail but the added versatility more than makes up for it.   

 

[LumberSmith]

mine is square within 0.5mm over the length of the FS 1400/2 rail. i don't think i've ever clamped it

the edge you put the grs on has to be flat. i just let the rail fall the 3-4 in it was raised while aligning the grs edge

do you end up with a right trapezoid after 20 cuts or what?

No I don’t have any right angles after I make 5 cuts.

If you were looking at the piece from above, the bottom is wider than the top and the right side is longer than the left side.

 

[gunnyr]

Hi all,

I just received my TSO GRS-16 PE rail square and I cannot get a square cut to save my life. I’ve taken off the factory edge and tried it on multiple pieces (probably 20 cuts) and get the same consistent result again and again. I’ve also tried using a different/shorter rail and same thing. Clamping both ends has no effect either.  It’s about a 1/16” off over 34” and 1/32” over 17”.

I would normally assume it’s me but the fact that it’s always off the same amount on every cut, isn’t square to the parallel guides I bought from TSO, doesn’t square up to any of my squares, and the fact that I get the same result on different rails makes me wonder if it’s the rail square that isn’t square.

Has anybody else had this problem?

Thanks in advanced,
Tyler

So you signed up to complain about a product.  Please tell us that you contacted TSO first.  If not, I'm sure Hans and his team [member=61691]TSO_Products[/member] will help get this sorted out anyway.  I trust that you'll come back to tell us how the issue gets resolved.

Respectfully.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

When I went to use my TSO square the first time it was off by more than yours. My first thought was I just paid a good amount for this and it’s not square, but, ends up one of my rails was not straight. Maybe this isn’t your issue but is there a way for you to try another rail? Or do you have a long straight edge to test the rail?

 

[LumberSmith]

Hi all,

I just received my TSO GRS-16 PE rail square and I cannot get a square cut to save my life. I’ve taken off the factory edge and tried it on multiple pieces (probably 20 cuts) and get the same consistent result again and again. I’ve also tried using a different/shorter rail and same thing. Clamping both ends has no effect either.  It’s about a 1/16” off over 34” and 1/32” over 17”.

I would normally assume it’s me but the fact that it’s always off the same amount on every cut, isn’t square to the parallel guides I bought from TSO, doesn’t square up to any of my squares, and the fact that I get the same result on different rails makes me wonder if it’s the rail square that isn’t square.

Has anybody else had this problem?

Thanks in advanced,
Tyler

So you signed up to complain about a product.  Please tell us that you contacted TSO first.  If not, I'm sure Hans and his team [member=61691]TSO_Products[/member] will help get this sorted out anyway.  I trust that you'll come back to tell us how the issue gets resolved.

Respectfully.

I’ve been reading these threads for a while and have bought multiple Festool products because of it. It is also what drove me to buy this. I am by no means an expert and don’t have a lot of experience wood working and therefore I never saw a need to create an account to post until now. I read and that was it.

Next, not once did I complain. I simply stated my problem and asked if anybody else experienced the same issue.

So don’t get all fussy. It’s ok. I know TSO is a great company and will take care of it if it’s actually the square and not me.

 

[LumberSmith]

When I went to use my TSO square the first time it was off by more than yours. My first thought was I just paid a good amount for this and it’s not square, but, ends up one of my rails was not straight. Maybe this isn’t your issue but is there a way for you to try another rail? Or do you have a long straight edge to test the rail?

Yeah I’ve used two different rails and same result on both.

 

[Rick Herrick]

So you signed up to complain about a product. 

Probably a tad uncalled for.  When something is broke, why not reach out to others looking for help?  A number of times, not always, I have found help on forums better than customer support.  Hans is way better than most but some customer support can take days to get back to you.

I prefer this to some that sign up, try to sell us something and then go away.  Other hobby forums I am a part of, won't let you put a classified ad up until you have posted XX number of 'meaningful' posts.  But I digress.....

 

[deepcreek]

To be honest, my experience with getting square cuts using the TSO guide rail square has not been successful either.  I've tried using different guide rails, clamping, and not clamping, all to no avail.  I just can't seem to achieve good results. For me, this accessory was a disappointment and I have gone back to manually squaring each cut.

 

[Birdhunter]

I have several TSO products. Zero problems, but I have talked to Han and have found him highly responsive to my request.

I think the IP was smart in stating an issue. Talking to Han first and sharing Han’s response would have been a tad better approach.

I use a very large Woodpecker square to line up my TS55 rail cuts. It’s the biggest square they make. I think it’s called a framers square.  Then, I clamp the rail. I always get perfectly square cuts. Oh. I do true up the reference edge on a sheet of BB plywood first.

 

[Pant]

Firstly have you checked with a machinist square that the square clamps square to the rail back edge? If it does then the square is square no questions. Getting the actual cut to be square is entirely different story  as many have noticed and there are many things to check. If it doesn't clamp square to the rail back edge then it's simply a defective product and you should get a replacement.

To give you an idea, my cordless makita track saw doesn't cut square unless I set depth of cut to at least material thickness + 8mm (normally I had used +6mm and never questioned it). Almost drove me insane because I checked every other potential source of error before it.

Another thing to check with the saw is the bevel angle, it must be 90degrees and definitely isn't out of the box from factory. cut 200-300mm long piece and rest it on a flat surface on its cut edge standing tall, now approach it with machinist square to check what angle it wants to stand in naturally being careful not to tilt it to conform to the square, if done correctly this techinque reveals easily even tiny deviations from 90 degree bevel. It allows measuring the gap with feeler gauges and use calculations to convert it to the fractions of turns the 90 degree stop screw needs to be turned. Make sure to check both sides, one side will have the gap at bottom and one at top, small gaps at the bottom are hard to see while the gap at the top is obvious with moderately long square no matter how small the error is.

Note that any underside clamping of the rail or the rail being laterally unsupported during any portion of the cut will result in non-90 degree bevel cut, so use additional friction strips or lateral clamps to prevent rail movement instead of underside clamping.

 

[LumberSmith]

Firstly have you checked with a machinist square that the square clamps square to the rail back edge? If it does then the square is square no questions. Getting the actual cut to be square is entirely different story  as many have noticed and there are many things to check. If it doesn't clamp square to the rail back edge then it's simply a defective product and you should get a replacement.

To give you an idea, my cordless makita track saw doesn't cut square unless I set depth of cut to at least material thickness + 8mm (normally I had used +6mm and never questioned it). Almost drove me insane because I checked every other potential source of error before it.

Another thing to check with the saw is the bevel angle, it must be 90degrees and definitely isn't out of the box from factory. cut 200-300mm long piece and rest it on a flat surface on its cut edge standing tall, now approach it with machinist square to check what angle it wants to stand in naturally being careful not to tilt it to conform to the square, if done correctly this techinque reveals easily even tiny deviations from 90 degree bevel. It allows measuring the gap with feeler gauges and use calculations to convert it to the fractions of turns the 90 degree stop screw needs to be turned. Make sure to check both sides, one side will have the gap at bottom and one at top, small gaps at the bottom are hard to see while the gap at the top is obvious with moderately long square no matter how small the error is.

Note that any underside clamping of the rail or the rail being laterally unsupported during any portion of the cut will result in non-90 degree bevel cut, so use additional friction strips or lateral clamps to prevent rail movement instead of underside clamping.

I don’t own a machinist square but here is a picture of what I do have. If you look closely you can see a gap at the end. The other two pictures are of the parallel guides. The guide that attaches to the rail square touches the work piece but the other one is slightly off.

I know the square I’m using is not ideal but I think it’s pretty accurate. There is also play when I bump it up next to the rail square and the back of the actual rail. This is the case on both rails I have. Neither rail has ever been dropped or experienced any sort of abuse.

I’m fairly certain my ts55 is cutting at 90 degrees as I’ve spent a fair amount of time calibrating it. I’ll check again though when I get home this afternoon.

 

[LumberSmith]

Firstly have you checked with a machinist square that the square clamps square to the rail back edge? If it does then the square is square no questions. Getting the actual cut to be square is entirely different story  as many have noticed and there are many things to check. If it doesn't clamp square to the rail back edge then it's simply a defective product and you should get a replacement.

To give you an idea, my cordless makita track saw doesn't cut square unless I set depth of cut to at least material thickness + 8mm (normally I had used +6mm and never questioned it). Almost drove me insane because I checked every other potential source of error before it.

Another thing to check with the saw is the bevel angle, it must be 90degrees and definitely isn't out of the box from factory. cut 200-300mm long piece and rest it on a flat surface on its cut edge standing tall, now approach it with machinist square to check what angle it wants to stand in naturally being careful not to tilt it to conform to the square, if done correctly this techinque reveals easily even tiny deviations from 90 degree bevel. It allows measuring the gap with feeler gauges and use calculations to convert it to the fractions of turns the 90 degree stop screw needs to be turned. Make sure to check both sides, one side will have the gap at bottom and one at top, small gaps at the bottom are hard to see while the gap at the top is obvious with moderately long square no matter how small the error is.

Note that any underside clamping of the rail or the rail being laterally unsupported during any portion of the cut will result in non-90 degree bevel cut, so use additional friction strips or lateral clamps to prevent rail movement instead of underside clamping.

I don’t own a machinist square but here is a picture of what I do have. If you look closely you can see a gap at the end. The other two pictures are of the parallel guides. The guide that attaches to the rail square touches the work piece but the other one is slightly off.

I know the square I’m using is not ideal but I think it’s pretty accurate. There is also play when I bump it up next to the rail square and the back of the actual rail. This is the case on both rails I have. Neither rail has ever been dropped or experienced any sort of abuse.

I’m fairly certain my ts55 is cutting at 90 degrees as I’ve spent a fair amount of time calibrating it. I’ll check again though when I get home this afternoon.

I can't attach the images for some reason so sorry there are no pictures. I'll keep trying and post them when i figure it out.

 

[GoingMyWay]

You probably need to resize your images so they are smaller.  I reduce my S9 photos (taken at the highest resolution setting) to 33% of the original size - they go from ~6-7MB to down to ~200-300KB

 

[LumberSmith]

Got the pictures here.

 

[LumberSmith]

You probably need to resize your images so they are smaller.  I reduce my S9 photos (taken at the highest resolution setting) to 33% of the original size - they go from ~6-7MB to down to ~200-300KB

Thanks!

 

[afish]

You also need to check your/any square you are using.  Take a scrap of wood at least as big as the square make sure one edge is straight.  Take a piece of masking tape and run it down the middle of the sheet perpendicular to the known straight edge.  High contrast tape works best so either the blue painters or green frog tape. Place the body of the square along the straight edge and place the blade over approx. half of the masking tape.  Take a sharp razor knife and cut through the tape and remove half of it.  Now flip the square over and check it against the cut edge of the tape.