TSV 60 chipout

[VH Benny]

Hi there,

i'm new to woodworking etc. and wanted to do alot of work for myself, mostly cabinets made out of melamine plates.
i bought this one to get clean cuts, topside is great but backside (bottom) has alot of chipouts, i've seen another topic here
with some solutions, i cut on a insulation panel (also tried on another piece of wood underneath, that's actually the cuts on picture),
the depth is set at 25 (material is 18) i also bought the melamine cutting blade from festool (same issue as with the original fine cut it came with)
but what i didn't see in the posts is about the 'toe-out', so i follow a video on YT, where in front a standard business card can't get between the blade
and the wood, and on the back side i can slide it barely in when i let it go it sticks behind, doesn't fall out.
There's also zero movement on the rail (adjusted that aswell with the tension thingy's) so it's not that it's moving around sideways.
So i'm out of solutions, hence why i'm reaching out here..

I'm from Belgium so there could be grammar faults here, i do hope i make sense

 

[Lincoln]

Try increasing the depth of cut, this changes the angle that the teeth hit the melamine and can reduce chipping.

 

[makpacman]

Hi there,

i'm new to woodworking etc. and wanted to do alot of work for myself, mostly cabinets made out of melamine plates.
i bought this one to get clean cuts, topside is great but backside (bottom) has alot of chipouts, i've seen another topic here
with some solutions, i cut on a insulation panel (also tried on another piece of wood underneath, that's actually the cuts on picture),
the depth is set at 25 (material is 18) i also bought the melamine cutting blade from festool (same issue as with the original fine cut it came with)
but what i didn't see in the posts is about the 'toe-out', so i follow a video on YT, where in front a standard business card can't get between the blade
and the wood, and on the back side i can slide it barely in when i let it go it sticks behind, doesn't fall out.
There's also zero movement on the rail (adjusted that aswell with the tension thingy's) so it's not that it's moving around sideways.
So i'm out of solutions, hence why i'm reaching out here.

I'm from Belgium so there could be grammar faults here, i do hope i make sense

I don't have any experience with the TSV-60, but I do cut melamine at times so I understand the issue. I was going to recommend to reduce the depth of cut to a minimum. That way the spinning teeth are not entering and exiting the brittle surface but just brushing past. The idea of deepening the cut could also work in so far as the teeth may also spend less time near the surface where chipping occurs.

Though it would not be a permanent solution, you might try blue tape or some other decent masking tape on the bottom just to see if it helps. I've had some success with that on the top of melamine with the TSC55.

 

[MacBoy]

Check out the good suggestions on this same question.

 

[arso_bg]

Hi everybody



I do not have the Festool TSV 60, but I have extensive experience cutting melamine with my Mafell mt55cc.

Looking at the pictures, what I have to say is that the picture doesn't look right from the top either!! And maybe this is where you should start. If your blades are new and sharp, you should get at the top crisp, straight lines. This might have something to do with the scoring blade settings... I can't comment on that…. but in any case, you should achieve two clean straight lines on top.

As for the underside, you can try a deeper or shallower cut - this may help. What will generally solve the issue with the quality of the cut on the underside is to place a sacrificial board under the parts that you cut

I hope these tips will help you.

 

[P_K]

There's probably a less aggressive toe-in setting that's specific to the TSV since it has two blades that need to follow the same cut path. From the photos of the top, it looks as though the scoring blade is misaligned from the rail which is giving you that odd looking waviness. Too much toe-in is probably also causing the main blade to enter and exit the bottom surface of the cut at an odd angle which is causing the chipping. Adjusting that angle to the bare minimum should resolve this.

 

[MacBoy]

Here is good information on the Toe-In, as suggested by @P_K

https://festoolownersgroup.com/threads/determine-degree-of-toe-in-for-track-saw.77103/

I would first call Festool. Send them your photos. Ask them for advice on aligning the Scoring Blade with the Saw Blade.

Of course, they will tell you to “Send it in, we will fix it under the warranty”.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

There are a few factors at play here, one of which may be the material itself. Although I am not saying that there aren't other things to consider, Melamine is not all the same. The lower quality tuff is more difficult to get perfect cuts, even if everything else is correct. This may be the most difficult hurdle for hobbyist woodworkers though, depending on your local sources. If you are in a big enough city to have it at a typical home center, which seems handy, it is also likely to be the worst choice. (cheapest, yes. quality? probably not)
It might cost more, but seek out cabinet shops. They might be willing to sell you some, since their suppliers probably won't. Many of them either won't retail at all, or won't sell in "small time" quantities.
Beyond that, next I would swap blades first, and work with the adjustments on that new blade. The blade itself? Not what most manufacturers consider a Melamine blade. Most of them sell a combined "fine finish and melamine" blade....as if those things have the same requirements. They do not. "Cross-cut" blades for veneer always have ATB teeth, many of those are also "Hi Angle ATB" (H-ATB). That is perfect for precisely slicing the wood fibers, to eliminate tear out, that is not the same thing as Melamine.
Melamine is a low-pressure plastic coating (skin), which acts differently. The quality differences are about adhesion and brittleness of that coating. Twenty years and multiple thousands of sheets of melamine, have taught me a few things. First, don't ever let it slide in your hands. It will cut you. the better/prettier the cut (on the material) the smoother/deeper it will cut you. Bad cuts on Melamine, result in jagged nasty cuts on hands. They are usually shallower, but more torn/painful.
That said, my recommendation is to use a Tripple-chip (TCG) blade, not very aggressive, in the 5-10 degree rake range. Test this type of blade, for different depth of cut, (shallower vs deeper) before. Be sure of your toe-in adjustment, before you bring the scoring blade into the equation. The bottom has to be right first.
This may not be the most popular opinion, most of the manufacturers push H-ATB for this, but they are available in TCG form. (Freud Industrial comes to mind first, but not for track saws). To get a TCG, for in a track saw size, you need to look for one designed for plastic.
Deeper cuts change the angle of attack, cutting more upward into the face of the sheet, which can give a better finish, but its more sensitive to your toe adjustment, since the back of the blade is also at a higher angle, lifting the surface. This is the advantage of a track saw versus table saw with a scoring blade. The track holds the edge down.
You can also go the opposite way, cutting as shallow as possible. However, you absolutely have to have a sacrificial surface under the cut. This means cutting over a virgin space, of the substrate.

I know it's a lot to take in, but it really is that important, for the best cuts. You are certainly not the first to struggle with this. Big cabinet shops use very expensive edgebanders that typically use a cutter, that is much like a jointer, to cut 1mm off of the edges of the sheet, as it runs through. Even those giant CNC machines, with diamond compression bits, still don't cut 100% perfect. As they wear, the cut quality degrades slightly, the edgebander compensates for it, by cutting some of it away.

 

[MacBoy]

Thank you, CRG.

I assume the same tips apply to veneer-faced (both sides) MDF sheets.

I have the 2.2mm kerf Freud laminate blade for track saws. I might also have the Festool 1.8mm laminate blade.

Hopefully next year, I’ll get around to using those laminated sheets for a TV center.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Thank you, CRG.

I assume the same tips apply to veneer-faced (both sides) MDF sheets.

I have the 2.2mm kerf Freud laminate blade for track saws. I might also have the Festool 1.8mm laminate blade.

Hopefully next year, I’ll get around to using those laminated sheets for a TV center.

Well, that's where things get muddled. You have to look at the packaging about the tooth shape, not what they say it is intended for. Sometimes laminate means engineered wood, like flooring, which is essentially plywood. Other times it means plastic laminate (HPL) Normally, when they say 2-sided, they mean HPL.
The Festool Universal and Fine-tooth blades are both ATB. I have never seen/used one of their laminate blades. Apparently, they are different, but I don't know how. I skipped straight to the Metal/Plastics one. I don't have it anymore though, it was replaced by an Amana a few years ago.
My preference for cutting HPL is also TCG, noy for cut quality, but what it does to the blade itself. Hard materials like that "knock the sexy" off the tips of H-ATB blades much quicker than TCG, and it leaves more of a burr on the edge. It's almost like cutting metal.
Plywood, hardwood cross-cuts.........ATB
Rip solid wood......ATB-R or true rip blade (FTG) flat top/ low tooth-count
Everything else.......TCG. The only difference is the rake. zero to negative for plastics and soft metal (thin) positive for thicker or combination of materials.