Unable to square with ts-55 and TSO grs-16

[woodvkk]

So my first big project, i.e a laundry cabinet, working with sheet goods. Decided to square the larger pieces with the ts55 and Grs-16 before cutting to size with my tablesaw.  However while the corners appear square, 2 sides are off by 1/32", and I went through all 4 sides twice, but am unable to get better accuracy.I'm working with 4'x3' pieces. Is this the best accuracy I can expect? I was assuming better.  I'm wondering if something is off In my setup.

 

[tomp]

Here are a couple of things to check

- for 3' x 4' parts, one edge is probably "factory". Check that this edge is clean, no defects.

- are you using a clamp(s) on the track? That might be something to try on longer cuts.

Also, there was another post that addressed out of square parts using the GRS-16 where it was suggested that taking a skim cut - i.e. less that the width of the blade - could allow the blade to push off the material and affect accuracy of the cut.

 

[woodvkk]

Here are a couple of things to check

- for 3' x 4' parts, one edge is probably "factory". Check that this edge is clean, no defects.

- are you using a clamp(s) on the track? That might be something to try on longer cuts.

Also, there was another post that addressed out of square parts using the GRS-16 where it was suggested that taking a skim cut - i.e. less that the width of the blade - could allow the blade to push off the material and affect accuracy of the cut.

Thanks for the feedback.  I am using a clamp but on the workpiece attached to the mft and not on the rail. That's a good suggestion, I'll try that next. 

I'll see if I can find the skim cut issue post. I could have been close on some of the cuts.

 

[Klemm]

to All:
please share your tips and best practices for achieving accurate cuts along with trouble shooting suggestions so we can use the various responses to include the finer points in a new "Guide Rail Squaring User Guide". We will share formally on our website and our TSO Insider Newsletter and put a link on the FOG thread, of course.

The aim is to include not only GRS-16 specific tips but a broader view of steps and shop practices leading to consistent excellent outcomes. Please share your experience with us now. We can aways refine and update it later - but let's get it started now.

BTW: we will also work on a twin to this Guide for the use of Precision Triangles - ours in particular but also tips applicable to this type of tool in general. Trying to decide if we should start a separate thread just for the Triangles - probably will to narrow the focus of a thread.

thanks guys,

Hans and Eric
info@tsoproducts.com

 

[tjbnwi]

Do you straight-line the ply before making a "square" cut to the edge?

I straight-line all my sheet goods before "squaring".

Tom

 

[Svar]

He went around all 4 sides twice, so the "factory" edge is not an issue.
If this squaring was done in a "five cut test" manner, sequentially side after side, then you have 1/32" over 14' (3x4 piece). I would not expect better results from a small square referenced from plywood edge. If you want better, use a parallel guide setup.

 

[woodvkk]

He went around all 4 sides twice, so the "factory" edge is not an issue.
If this squaring was done in a "five cut test" manner, sequentially side after side, then you have 1/32" over 14' (3x4 piece). I would not expect better results from a small square referenced from plywood edge. If you want better, use a parallel guide setup.

Yes I always referenced the just previously cut edge for the next cut

 

[woodvkk]

Do you straight-line the ply before making a "square" cut to the edge?

I straight-line all my sheet goods before "squaring".

Tom

Yes, basically the sequence of squaring starts after the first edge is cut.

 

[tjbnwi]

You mention 2 sides are 1/32 off. Cut 1, 2 3, or 4?

Tom

 

[Klemm]

I sent [member=59827]woodvkk[/member] a first draft of a USER GUIDE for square cuts using the TS-55 REQ and guiderails along with the GRS-16. I also sent him a link to the Supplemental Manual for TS-55 REQ.

It appears from this threead that there a number of opportnities for improving Vinay's technique. All the more reason for us to develop a comprehensie USER GUIDE in progressively better detail, with images added later on.

For now I also sent a copy of our DRAFT User Guide to Tom [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] for review and refinement.
Let's see how this goes.

Hans
info @ tso products.com

 

[woodvkk]

Hans, thanks for all the input. 

I've been using the TS-55 for over a year and so have read all the manuals and didn't have a table saw until a few weeks ago so getting square cuts with the ts55 became a constant. But this is the first time I'm not using qwas dogs etc and relying on squaring solely with the square and rail and with larger sheet goods.  I believe my fundamentals of using the track saw are strong and intact, but a review won't harm of course, and I've not looked at that supplemental manual in a while.

I will try clamping and add a 5th cut.

I have to say though that all the product videos and reviews are a bit misleading since one mentions it's a 5 second cut and nobody clamps in any of the videos.

What about svars contention that I cannot do better than 1/32"?

I do remember seeing this
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other...d-4-cut5-cut-calibration/msg510490/#msg510490

which implies 1/1000 error per inch and could translate to the larger variance I'm seeing? 

With the 4 feet, that's 48/1000=0.048. 1/32=0.0325 which would imply I'm within the range of previously observed error?

 

[woodvkk]

You mention 2 sides are 1/32 off. Cut 1, 2 3, or 4?

Tom

The longer sides, I.e cuts 2 and 4 the first time, but I went through it twice with same result.

 

[grobkuschelig]

@woodvkk did you check your 'non-slip-strips'?
I experienced that, on longer cuts a slight non-straight pressure to the saw can lead to a small shift of the guiderail.

I now more frequently vacuum my non slip strips, and If I need dead accurate cuts, I'll clamp the material from both sides of the GSR-16.
In my experience, it is possible to get straight cuts without clamping at all, but you have to make sure to not push the saw off-square.
Adding clamps makes it fool-proof, which is good for someone like me. [emoji41]

Also only takes seconds with the Festool quick clamps, so no real problem.

 

[tjbnwi]

You mention 2 sides are 1/32 off. Cut 1, 2 3, or 4?

Tom

The longer sides, I.e cuts 2 and 4 the first time, but I went through it twice with same result.

I agree with grob, it may be the far end of the rail is drifting slightly on the long cut.

Clean the strips off and try it again.

I assume this is not pre-finished plywood?

Tom

 

[woodvkk]

[member=59827]woodvkk[/member] did you check your 'non-slip-strips'?
I experienced that, on longer cuts a slight non-straight pressure to the saw can lead to a small shift of the guiderail.

I now more frequently vacuum my non slip strips, and If I need dead accurate cuts, I'll clamp the material from both sides of the GSR-16.
In my experience, it is possible to get straight cuts without clamping at all, but you have to make sure to not push the saw off-square.
Adding clamps makes it fool-proof, which is good for someone like me. [emoji41]

Also only takes seconds with the Festool quick clamps, so no real problem.

Thanks, that's a great point.  All roads are leading to clamping and being fool-proof is good for someone like me too  [smile]

 

[woodvkk]

You mention 2 sides are 1/32 off. Cut 1, 2 3, or 4?

Tom

The longer sides, I.e cuts 2 and 4 the first time, but I went through it twice with same result.

I agree with grob, it may be the far end of the rail is drifting slightly on the long cut.

Clean the strips off and try it again.

I assume this is not pre-finished plywood?

Tom

Thanks Tom, it is prefinished

 

[tjbnwi]

You mention 2 sides are 1/32 off. Cut 1, 2 3, or 4?

Tom

The longer sides, I.e cuts 2 and 4 the first time, but I went through it twice with same result.

I agree with grob, it may be the far end of the rail is drifting slightly on the long cut.

Clean the strips off and try it again.

I assume this is not pre-finished plywood?

Tom

Thanks Tom, it is prefinished

My guess is guide rail drift on the pre-finished.

Even with parallel guides I use Gecko(s) clamps to lock the rail. Only takes a brief moment to lock the rail.

If I set up for the cut you performed, I'd have one Gecko out about 30" from the GRS end/edge. Set rail, verify GRS is along the edge properly, one hand on the rail at Gecko location as you lock it. You can eliminate the rail clamp at the GRS with this method.

Tom

 

[Scorpion]

You mention 2 sides are 1/32 off. Cut 1, 2 3, or 4?

Tom

The longer sides, I.e cuts 2 and 4 the first time, but I went through it twice with same result.

I agree with grob, it may be the far end of the rail is drifting slightly on the long cut.

Clean the strips off and try it again.

I assume this is not pre-finished plywood?

Tom

Thanks Tom, it is prefinished

Did you mention using clamps or a Greco anywhere during this thread?  Maybe I missed it.  I have to be beyond careful when cutting pre-finished ply and not clamping firmly.  Trac has a tendency to drift sometimes just slightly even when clamping. 

Edit:  I see Tom beat me to it. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jeh]

1/32" is an outstanding level of precision for sheet goods cut down and you could not expect anymore. There is no guarantee the rail is straight. My plywood length rails have a slight deflection in the middle so I have moved to using two shorter rails for longer cuts to avoid the deflection.

 

[woodvkk]

So I got time to finally try with clamping.

The first time yesterday I cut starting on the long side. The two long sides were off by 1/32”. That was with no clamping of the rail to the workpiece.

Today I started with the short side with clamping the rail to the workpiece and the two short sides are off by 1/32” or about 1mm.

It appears this is the best possible in this scenario, as pointed out by svar and jim.

So when running such a piece through a table saw, what is the advised methodology to get closer to square?  Are fully calibrated tablesaw tolerances higher?