Unable to square with ts-55 and TSO grs-16

[Scorpion]

So I got time to finally try with clamping.

The first time yesterday I cut starting on the long side. The two long sides were off by 1/32”. That was with no clamping of the rail to the workpiece.

Today I started with the short side with clamping the rail to the workpiece and the two short sides are off by 1/32” or about 1mm.

Ya know, a pencil mark is slightly less than 1mm wide (depending on your type if pencil). Is it possible that your delta is also coming from the accuracy of the mark + the accuracy of your alignment of the rail edge to the mark?  Your alignment techniques would be a constant between the cuts on both short and long sides.

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[Svar]

So I got time to finally try with clamping.
The first time yesterday I cut starting on the long side. The two long sides were off by 1/32”. That was with no clamping of the rail to the workpiece.
Today I started with the short side with clamping the rail to the workpiece and the two short sides are off by 1/32” or about 1mm.
It appears this is the best possible in this scenario, as pointed out by svar and jim.

Just wondering if this error is consistent. Is your angle always less (or always more) than 90 deg? Or is it all over the place, but at the end of the 4-th cut you've got 1/32 error to either side?
If it is consistent you could shim your square (between the rail and the square) with a piece of paper or foil to adjust it to 90.

 

[tjbnwi]

If you have another rail to try the square on give it a try.

Other than that I'll think on this while I'm getting my 4 hours of sleep tonight.

Tom

 

[woodvkk]

So I got time to finally try with clamping.

The first time yesterday I cut starting on the long side. The two long sides were off by 1/32”. That was with no clamping of the rail to the workpiece.

Today I started with the short side with clamping the rail to the workpiece and the two short sides are off by 1/32” or about 1mm.

Ya know, a pencil mark is slightly less than 1mm wide (depending on your type if pencil). Is it possible that your delta is also coming from the accuracy of the mark + the accuracy of your alignment of the rail edge to the mark?  Your alignment techniques would be a constant between the cuts on both short and long sides.

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Not sure what you mean by pencil mark. I made no marks, just cut 4 sides ( I have enough waste material and not measuring to actual width right now ), clamped and GRS-squared, and measured the lengths of the sides.

 

[woodvkk]

So I got time to finally try with clamping.
The first time yesterday I cut starting on the long side. The two long sides were off by 1/32”. That was with no clamping of the rail to the workpiece.
Today I started with the short side with clamping the rail to the workpiece and the two short sides are off by 1/32” or about 1mm.
It appears this is the best possible in this scenario, as pointed out by svar and jim.

Just wondering if this error is consistent. Is your angle always less (or always more) than 90 deg? Or is it all over the place, but at the end of the 4-th cut you've got 1/32 error to either side?
If it is consistent you could shim your square (between the rail and the square) with a piece of paper or foil to adjust it to 90.

My corners look quite square to the eyeball with a square, so the error in the angle is probably miniscule. I'll calibrate my angle measuring tool and try later today.  That's a good point on the pattern. I've more pieces to cut so will keep an eye on that. However, I'm not sure why that would happen though.

 

[woodvkk]

If you have another rail to try the square on give it a try.

Other than that I'll think on this while I'm getting my 4 hours of sleep tonight.

Tom

Tom -- Unfortunately this is my only long rail.

 

[Scorpion]

So I got time to finally try with clamping.

The first time yesterday I cut starting on the long side. The two long sides were off by 1/32”. That was with no clamping of the rail to the workpiece.

Today I started with the short side with clamping the rail to the workpiece and the two short sides are off by 1/32” or about 1mm.

Ya know, a pencil mark is slightly less than 1mm wide (depending on your type if pencil). Is it possible that your delta is also coming from the accuracy of the mark + the accuracy of your alignment of the rail edge to the mark?  Your alignment techniques would be a constant between the cuts on both short and long sides.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure what you mean by pencil mark. I made no marks, just cut 4 sides ( I have enough waste material and not measuring to actual width right now ), clamped and GRS-squared, and measured the lengths of the sides.

Sorry, tired brain.  I was thinking about how I cut pre-finished plywood in my head.  Disregard my wondering thoughts.

Matt

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[SS Teach]

When I first used my GRS on a long cut there was some rail movement. I cut again with a clamp at the far end and the cuts were right on.

 

[Cheese]

If this were my problem, I'd start by developing a reference mark. Right now without any references, you don't know if it's a TSO/rail perpendicularity problem or if the whole assembly is moving as you saw.

I'd take a Woodpeckers saddle square or the Incra equivalent and a .9mm pencil and make a mark at the beginning, middle and end of the desired cut.

Place the TSO/rail combo in place and note if all 3 marks line up with the splinter strip.

If so, start the cut and midway through halt the cut and check to see if the rail is still on the end mark. Resume cutting again and observe, as you near the end mark, if the rail is still on the end mark.

I just think the rail is moving. [smile]

 

[woodvkk]

If this were my problem, I'd start by developing a reference mark. Right now without any references, you don't know if it's a TSO/rail perpendicularity problem or if the whole assembly is moving as you saw.

I'd take a Woodpeckers saddle square or the Incra equivalent and a .9mm pencil and make a mark at the beginning, middle and end of the desired cut.

Place the TSO/rail combo in place and note if all 3 marks line up with the splinter strip.

If so, start the cut and midway through halt the cut and check to see if the rail is still on the end mark. Resume cutting again and observe, as you near the end mark, if the rail is still on the end mark.

I just think the rail is moving. [smile]

That's a good suggestion. But to be clear, I've not seen the "whole assembly moving". I got consistent error results clamping or not. And this was a new unused rail when I started. But I'm not ruling that out.

However, Have you guys measured your errors with the GRS? I assume you're seeing better than a 1mm error for 3 feet work pieces? 

As I mentioned above based on the only measurement I've seen that I referenced, I'm in the ball park of observed error.

 

[Laminator]

I had a similar problem with 4' x 4' panels.  I was using woodpeckers 26" square and 75" guide rail and after a nightmarish hard time, finally realized the guide rail was not straight.  I cut the remainder of  the panels with my 118" rail (yep, it was awkward) and the results were very consistent.  I always clamp the far end of the rail and the panels were square (corner to corner) within the thickness of the line on my stanley tape measure, something that is paramount when making double panels with 1/2" reveals for wall decoration.

 

[sekrit_skworl]

Hmmm... I'm a latecomer.  And, as I am considering the TSO products, I have a question for the O.P.:

Did you happen to use the GRS-16 alone or the combo to reference both sides of the rail against the material?

(I may have skimmed past the answer.  I am just worried about purchasing the products if problematic.  So, I thought that I should "flat out" ask.

 

[Mario Turcot]

Hmmm... I'm a latecomer.  And, as I am considering the TSO products, I have a question for the O.P.:

Did you happen to use the GRS-16 alone or the combo to reference both sides of the rail against the material?

(I may have skimmed past the answer.  I am just worried about purchasing the products if problematic.  So, I thought that I should "flat out" ask.

I believe the tolerance on the TSO square gives very accurate 90 degree. As you saw from that thread many factors can come to give a more or less accurate result. The rail, no clamps, prefinish ply etc..

One thing that has not been mentioned yet is the blade. Do the blade was dirty or doll. A dirty blade will over heat very quickly and will tend to bend slightly towards the inside (in my experience).

Mario

 

[Tinker]

Does it make any difference which corner you go to in sequence. If you are using the square at the close end of your rail, go to the far end of the straight cut (moving to your right and cutting to the left all the time) and make your second cut, moving always to square to the last cut you made. I have not used the TSO square, but I use a 12" triangle square when breaking down sheets at tail gate of my truck. I have not noticed any problems with squaring in that way. I will check more closely the next time I am breaking down plywood sheets.
Tinker

 

[Klemm]

[member=60437]sekrit_skworl[/member] - welcome "latecomer"  and here is TSO's response to your question -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmNyPvsfSCo
this link takes you to a very detailed video demo how to set up for square cuts and check it.

And as far as your concern about whether it is the right tool for you?
simple: unconditional satisfaction guaranteed - or your money back.

Aside from that: if you have any questions we do answer emails at info@tsoproducts.com

Hans and Eric

- and thank to the other FOGgers who responded to your post  [smile]

 

[sekrit_skworl]

[member=62097]Mario[/member] [member=59331]TSO Products[/member] Thank you kindly.