User caused damage does not equal warranty claim

[roblg3]

If the shoe fits...Festool makes some pretty good tools, some are even pricey compared...I understand it's not easy to spend money, especially for a hobbyist. Maybe if your experience level doesn't fit the dollar output and YOUR inexperience damages your tool, you may want to consider purchasing lesser expensive tools to damage while learning?  Just because I buy a Ferrari and loose control of it does not make it ferraris responsibility to fix it. I'll climb down off my soap box now. Good day

 

[Birdhunter]

Just curious, but what triggered this post?

 

[tony_sheehan]

"Festool makes some pretty good tools neons are even pricey compared"

Sorry, don't mean to be rude but what does this mean?

 

[bionicus]

It means he bought a Ferrari.

 

[peter halle]

I assume that the poster was frustrated by a post in another area regarding damage done to his saw when cutting material and then other comments in that thread where surprise was posted that the warranty wasn't "all-inclusive."

Peter

 

[Sparktrician]

My guess is that it comes down to, "It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools."  (Author unknown)

 

[Jozsef Kozma]

Oh that's rude [laughing]

 

[promark747]

I assume that the poster was frustrated by a post in another area regarding damage done to his saw when cutting material and then other comments in that thread where surprise was posted that the warranty wasn't "all-inclusive."

I imagine you are correct in the reference...but I saw nothing in the "My Kapex cracked, not covered" thread to indicate the damage was due to inexperience or improper usage.  He wasn't cutting steel, or clamping both ends, etc., so the Ferrari analogy is invalid and the thread uncalled for in my opinion.

That doesn't mean Festool should be expected to cover every "bad luck" scenario, either.

 

[Holmz]

I assume that the poster was frustrated by a post in another area regarding damage done to his saw when cutting material and then other comments in that thread where surprise was posted that the warranty wasn't "all-inclusive."

I imagine you are correct in the reference...but I saw nothing in the "My Kapex cracked, not covered" thread to indicate the damage was due to inexperience or improper usage.  He wasn't cutting steel, or clamping both ends, etc., so the Ferrari analogy is invalid and the thread uncalled for in my opinion.

That doesn't mean Festool should be expected to cover every "bad luck" scenario, either.

There was a mention of clamping both ends, but the thread seems a bit harsh.
Mistakes are not unheard of.

Perhaps there is some way to transform this into something useful?

 

[roblg3]

This post was not pointed at any person in particular. I am tired of hearing about this in my entire life. People seem too entitled and want to blame everyone other than accept personal responsibility for their actions. I am NOT referring to ANY particular post. Things happen when electricity is passed through allowing us to not have to use our muscles as hard. I've noticed that every time i have an "accident" while working with power tools, it can be traced back to something I did that set in motion the unwanted end result. If it's too expensive to look after your tools when the things that happen happen, choose lesser expensive tools. I destroyed many tools with my lack of experience. I injured myself many times. I did it. It was never the responsibility of the tool manufacturer to hold my hand and take care of every paint scrape and set of stitches. Those experiences taught me how to care for better tools over the decades. It showed me what my limitations were. That's my point.

 

[Holmz]

[member=31413]roblg3[/member] Do you have some hints for specific references that might help people learn to how to best use the tools?

 

[roblg3]

There's a million intricacies to woodworking. Each tool and also technique for the same operation with different outcome... I really enjoy sharing and teaching. I'd be happy to share what little I know with anyone interested in hearing. That's how I keep learning. I realize that even with decades of experience I have plenty left to learn. I am not a world famous expert. I do listen when I hear one speak. One thing that I will say is that when using a power mitre saw that I wish I had heard years earlier is this. Place the work piece on the table, close your hand in the air, and then rest your already closed fist on the work piece. That way if something happens, the piece will be pulled out from under your hand without pulling your irreplaceable hand into the spinning saw blade. I'd rather dig deep into my pocket to replace 10 saws than have to try to work one handed for the rest of my life. I never used a clamp until I had a Kapex. Now, NONE of my hands have to touch the workpiece while I cut. I can use both hands to gently guide the saw on plane without pulling it offline.

 

[Kev]

There may be some confusion about how robust a tool should be before damage occurs, but I don't think anyone on the forum is dull enough to think that the warranty is there to address damage caused by the user.

Safety is a completely different issue. Not all people know how to operate tools safely and there may be some confusion when an incorrectly operated tool results in the tool getting damaged. In this case the person may think it's a malfunction of the tool.

This grey area is probably the key here ... car analogies always seem to work. If you drive your car into a wall -> your fault ... If you drive your car over a small bump and the suspension collapses -> ??? here we'd ask was the suspension inadequately designed for the conditions of use or did the driver actually drive over something more like a cliff's edge!

 

[junk731]

Completely understand your post Rob and your frustration. Some things I've learned.

Common sense is not not so common.

You can't fix stupid.

It can be dangerous to try and learn how to use woodworking tools from the internet.

John

 

[Kev]

Completely understand your post Rob and your frustration. Some things I've learned.

Common sense is not not so common.

You can't fix stupid.

It can be dangerous to try and learn how to use woodworking tools from the internet.

John

Maybe ... the alternative of "not learning" is far worse!! What is your answer?

Life isn't perfect. We have stupid people and lawyers to ensure we don't advance as a species. I've said it before - let Darwin back into the game.

 

[icecactus]

If you referring to the Kapex Cracked guy, I took his post as more of a critism of festool for using so much plastic in the "line of fire".

But i disagree with the hobbyist or newbie purchasing lesser tools. In fact, I would argue the opposite.

It can be dangerous to try and learn how to use woodworking tools from the internet.

I suppose it could be, since anyone could post bad info. But I actually tend internet is the single best resource ever. If someone does give bad info, usually other people correct it, and you get multiple view points. The old school way of a book or even a class...well anyone could teach a class...who's to say they are not giving out bad info too?

 

[Harvey]

I'll put a couple points out there-
Ferrari doesn't use the slogan 'Tools for the toughest demands'  which Festool does.

I think one source of confusion is the Festool Service all-inclusive webpage which pretty clearly states shipping covered both ways for the first three years. The standard line that only tools repaired under warranty have shipping covered isn't really mentioned anywhere I could find. You only really realize shipping costs when you see the final bill.

Oh, do you know what Festool charges for service? For Canadians it's $360 an hour or roughly $254/hr in real money (of course if you repair it yourself you've voided any warranty remaining) ..

And specifically regarding kickbacks I've read here that some folks have paid full dime, some have had their bills reduced, while other's have had their saws repaired for free. That tends to make the one's who have paid for in full a bit testy. Even dogs understand when one is rewarded more than another for the same trick 

 

[Holmz]

A lot of Ferrari owners use their cars more for status.
I am not sure whether Festool owners are using their tools for work or status, but the Kapex in general seems to attract a lot of "Buy a deWalt for contractor use" mentions.

I have not seen any "Built Dodge Tough" mentions (or is it Ford?).

 

[junk731]

Completely understand your post Rob and your frustration. Some things I've learned.

Common sense is not not so common.

You can't fix stupid.

It can be dangerous to try and learn how to use woodworking tools from the internet.

John

Maybe ... the alternative of "not learning" is far worse!! What is your answer?

Life isn't perfect. We have stupid people and lawyers to ensure we don't advance as a species. I've said it before - let Darwin back into the game.

I thinking reading what one says is very helpful. I said, to recap, It "can" be dangerous, not that its always dangerous. I believe that. I do agree with your last statement but unfortunately sometimes Darwin doesn't work quick enough.

John

 

[Kev]

I thinking reading what one says is very helpful. I said, to recap, It "can" be dangerous, not that its always dangerous. I believe that. I do agree with your last statement but unfortunately sometimes Darwin doesn't work quick enough.

John

Ah .. but I did say "maybe" [wink] [big grin]

Darwin is defeated in most areas unfortunately. Here in Oz we fine people for not wearing seat belts. What sane person doesn't want to wear their seat belt?

Not far from me there's a fence along a cliff edge with a sign on the fence saying "don't climb over the fence" [huh] It's a cliff !!