User Names... if not the persons name is used...things go downhill fast

[Steve R]

Admin,

I postulate that the User naming parameters are causing an increase in negative comments and a degradation in the quality of the posts.

When someone registers as "disgruntled_user" to be able to post on the site... I very much feel that is wrong! Festool USA has held a very high standard on this site for the last few years. I point to this site for other sites to learn from. But the the lack of user name parameters is make me question that.

My issue is this: if I'm going to voice my opinion I should be able to, but I should not hide behind the user name "disgruntled_user" or woodwhor&, or FUFestoo**.  Sorry if my examples are too graphic, but I want to make a point.... What user names are "okay" and which are not okay.

What I'm saying is if I'm feeling disgruntled and feel the need to share that I can do that in a post under my real name. If I can't post negative feelings under my name in AMERICA... that is wrong. Now I should not insult others on the site in my posts and if I did that should get deleted and maybe me removed from the site.

I just have to ask, why would I need to hide behind a false name? When someone registers here under a username that does not say who they are. What good does it do?  It lets them say things that no one can trace. The can anger many for no other reason than they want to anger people here.

I propose that this site like others I belong to only allow user names that are the "actual name of the person posting".  Let them post concerns and issues they have! If they don't like something say so. But do not hide behind a curtain such as "disgruntled_user" that hides who you are!  If you do I lose all respect for you as poster and can never see you as an honorable person. 

I want my children, nieces and nephews, and grandchildren to lean to enjoy woodworking... This is a site that offers a great deal of educational opportunities for any one that is wanting to learn. But if some people are going to hide behind false user names... I'm not sure this is the site I want them to be a part of if user names are not real names.

My thoughts and my opinions, thanks for listening.

Cheers,
Steve

 

 

[Alan m]

im not sure i agree 100% but i agree with your point. i dont mind normal usernames that arnt the persons name. the examples you gave are just stupid. i agree that when you register as a negitive (or even first time user type name) that you are stuck like that

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Steve,

I appreciate you taking the time to provide the feedback. But, I have to say that anonymity is just one of the things that inherently comes along with the internet. Many people don't want to disclose their identity on forums for various reasons and we have to respect that.

Two of the examples you gave for member names would not be allowed per our guidelines against bad language. I know we have required several members in the past to change their names for that reason.

That being said, if the majority of active members would prefer to move to using real names, we will consider it as we want members to guide the direction of the forum. If anyone else feels strongly about this topic, I would encourage them to share their opinions here or feel free to PM or email myself or a moderator.

Thanks,
Shane

 

[nickao]

If you force people to use their real names that would be outrageous for privacy reasons, it simply does not work and would be unfair to many!

It's called privacy, we are on the open web not talking to a friend at home. If I stop on the street and say something to a person I generally don't give my name. If I am at a protest I don't have to give my name. If I am shopping at a store looking around I don't have to give my name. IMO, the only time a real name should be required is when purchasing something. Otherwise we certainly should be able to get on the web and use any handle we like.

For the exact reason the OP gives we should be able to use handles. Some people will not say what they really mean(I don't mean malicious stuff, but valid opinions) in fear of retribution. Mass emails, letters to their house, etc.

It is simply a fact that using real names does NOTHING to stop the type of comment the poster is talking about, a billion dollar company has already determined this:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/29/surprisingly-good-evidence-that-real-name-policies-fail-to-improve-comments/

The best statement of this article is this:

"The finding(that using real names does not help) isn’t surprising: social science researchers have long known that participants eventually begin to ignore cameras video taping their behavior. In other words, the presence of some phantom judgmental audience doesn’t seem to make us better versions of ourselves.

By the way, my real name is Nick. But my last name is unique. It's not fair to me to use my last name when someone like Smith uses theirs.  There is only ONE with my name in the US(and that's me), possibly the world and I have yet to find another. But there are millions of Smiths. A Joe Smith would  still be anonymous, but I would not be! Giving my full name is like giving my address and phone number compared to many others with common names. Are we going to require address and phone numbers as well in the user names, because that is the only way it would be fair to people with unique names! Requiring real names would just create a mass of people using false identities anyhow.

Three different companies and a government or two have done research into this and all determined that the decrease in profane and derogatory comments is only about .09% when people are forced to use their real names. That's hardly worth the effort to implement a real name policy.

What I find strange is a lot of states don't even require a person prove their identity with a registration card(or a license etc!)when voting. Yet forums and certain web sites want to or already do force people to use real names and prove their identity to talk about what in the scheme of things is really unimportant. If I needed to prove who I am and use my real name to talk about tools, but not to vote for the president something would be very wrong.

 

[GhostFist]

My real name is Matt, does that help?

 

[nickao]

Hi Matt   I prefer to call you GhostFist, it sure sounds cooler.

 

[lambeater]

If I use my real name then Immigration and the DEA may track and deport me back to the homeland, so I would prefer to hide! [big grin]

thx
Lambeater

 

[nickao]

I have wondered about this user name lambeater for awhile now. 

I don't know if I should  :'(  or  [eek]  or   .

 

[Stokely]

If you force people to use their real names that would be outrageous for privacy reasons, it simply does not work and would be unfair to many!

It's called privacy, we are on the open web not talking to a friend at home. If I stop on the street and say something to a person I generally don't give my name. If I am at a protest I don't have to give my name. If I am shopping at a store looking around I don't have to give my name. IMO, the only time a real name should be required is when purchasing something. Otherwise we certainly should be able to get on the web and use any handle we like.

For the exact reason the OP gives we should be able to use handles. Some people will not say what they really mean(I don't mean malicious stuff, but valid opinions) in fear of retribution. Mass emails, letters to their house, etc.

It is simply a fact that using real names does NOTHING to stop the type of comment the poster is talking about, a billion dollar company has already determined this:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/29/surprisingly-good-evidence-that-real-name-policies-fail-to-improve-comments/

The best statement of this article is this:

"The finding(that using real names does not help) isn’t surprising: social science researchers have long known that participants eventually begin to ignore cameras video taping their behavior. In other words, the presence of some phantom judgmental audience doesn’t seem to make us better versions of ourselves.

By the way, my real name is Nick. But my last name is unique. It's not fair to me to use my last name when someone like Smith uses theirs.  There is only ONE with my name in the US(and that's me), possibly the world and I have yet to find another. But there are millions of Smiths. A Joe Smith would  still be anonymous, but I would not be! Giving my full name is like giving my address and phone number compared to many others with common names. Are we going to require address and phone numbers as well in the user names, because that is the only way it would be fair to people with unique names! Requiring real names would just create a mass of people using false identities anyhow.

Three different companies and a government or two have done research into this and all determined that the decrease in profane and derogatory comments is only about .09% when people are forced to use their real names. That's hardly worth the effort to implement a real name policy.

What I find strange is a lot of states don't even require a person prove their identity with a registration card(or a license etc!)when voting. Yet forums and certain web sites want to or already do force people to use real names and prove their identity to talk about what in the scheme of things is really unimportant. If I needed to prove who I am and use my real name to talk about tools, but not to vote for the president something would be very wrong.

There is no right to participate on a forum, there is a right to vote. There are no laws forcing one to do either. There are also no laws requiring ID.

You are getting quite close to politics here. There are virtually NO instances of voter fraud on the participant end, but for some reason this is now an issue. It wouldn't happen to be related to who has ID and who doesn't and the corresponding political affiliations?

 

[bpitch]

Can't disagree with Nick aka Dovetail.
I am in absolutely same situation. Apart from the consequences of using real name, another problem is how to check if a person is using his real name. When registering one can use a fake name ( not a real John Smith but say James Joyce) just as easy as a nickname. Validation would be costly, and I am pretty sure not everyone will want to send a copy of his/her driver's licence for example as a proof of identity or else. Many people will be stopped at the registering process, and who knows, maybe we will miss out on some tool improvements/jigs, etc  [smile]

 

[nickao]

Well lets not get political, but my point is just what you said, "There are also no laws requiring ID". so why would there be rules for an ID for forum use?

Saying that it has anything to do with political affiliation is ridiculous(I have no affiliation with any), a license copy cost 5.00, for poor people it could be free, same as a state ID and everyone has a birth certificate and social security number( this is not a political statement either, just an opinion on when I feel one should have to prove their identity). I say the same for driving, writing a check, paying for something by credit card, getting insurance, getting loans, etc. All these things are important enough to require a real name be used, a forum  is not, well in  my opinion.

My point related to a forum was that if something as important as voting for President does not require the person to prove who they are then a forum definitely is not important enough for someone to prove who they are(I don't think that is a political statement at all). And even if we were all to have voter ID cards mandatory, for me a forum would still not be important enough to use a real name. As you say one does not have to be on the forum and you know that's what you would get, not many people on the forum. Take away every person here that does not use their real name for their user name and there would not be much a forum left.

Maybe I should have left the voting ID thing out so I wont say anything about it again, possibly a poor example.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I think people should be able to take any online nick they want, as long as it's not overly offensive. On some forums, I wouldn't even care about the offensive part. No person alive could step on my soul by typing some stuff on a screen.

How would you even enforce the real name policy? Have people send in (copies of) their passport or birth certificate? Any idea what kind of hassle that is, let alone a real security risk? I can't see disgruntled_user's name, but neither can I see that Steve R is a real name. For all I know you could be Alvin Applepicker in real life.

I just have to ask, why would I need to hide behind a false name? When someone registers here under a username that does not say who they are. What good does it do?  It lets them say things that no one can trace. The can anger many for no other reason than they want to anger people here.

I don't see that using a nick instead of a real name is used as a way to anger people. Forums generally have MODERATION and the moderators catch any bad behaviour fast enough. Look at this fourm, there are many people with strange nicks, but there's nobody here to pick a fight. I think in the 4 years that I'm participating I have seen maybe 2 or 3 people behave really bad, and guess what, they were banned within a couple of days, sometimes hours. 

I think a layer of anonimity is really important on the net. There are many people out there who want to do much worse things to you than a little bit of bad mouthing over power tools. Think about identity theft, bank fraud, bullying or, - it happened many times already -, physically find you and hurt you.

BTW, I haven't seen any offensive posts by disgruntled_user, except for starting that Festool Was Fined thread, which might be painfull for some, but is not offensive. He's not here to offend anyone, only show his digruntlement, and that's fine in a society that values free speech, isn't it?

 

[sgryd]

My name is unique in the world as well. Why should I be forced to tell everyone who I am? It should be enough to ban me if I have bad behaviour.
And, even if I would call myself, say, John Smith. How would you know if that's my real name anyway?

Sincerely
John Smith

edit: Oh, I see that Alex had the exact same points. It is Alex, is it?  [wink]

 

[jc]

I am for anonymity. 

If I am forced to provide my "real name" what is to stop me from saying that my "real name" is "Steve R"?

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Ok, I think at this point those in favor of letting the member's forum name be there own choice have made their points. I don't see the purpose in anyone else piling on from that side.

Are there any members who are in favor of requiring the use of real names? That's really the question here.

 

[zapdafish]

problem is names for the most part are not unique enough so that everyone can use their own name and I dont want to have to be John Smith 99 because   98 people registered John Smith before me. therefore I found a unique name that no one else has used.

 

[andvari]

Maybe I should have left the voting ID thing out so I wont say anything about it again, possibly a poor example.

Probably, because it is such a political issue at this time. I'd like to debate this, but this isn't the place for it.

The only reason that I would like to see a positive ID requirement on a forum is if there are issues with commercial interests not being clearly disclosed.

I think Shane is doing an excellent job with making sure that this is not an issue with this site.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

The only problem with monikers is that when personally responding to a person, you don't know how to properly address them. On my own forum, I created an extra entry box where people could put in their real name when they use a moniker for their user name. But it is not mandatory. Regardless whether their moniker is their real name or not, it does become their internet identity.

The bigger problem isn't monikers, but when people create a second user account solely to hide their identity from their normal identity. I believe the forum had some problems with that in the past, but not so much lately. These are the bad ones, because what they have to say is bad enough that they don't want it tarnishing their normal identity.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Rick, the guidelines which were implemented when we took ownership of the forum prevent multiple user accounts. Myself and the moderators do our best to monitor and enforce this guidelines, as well as all others.

 

[Stone Message]

Hello Everyone - whoever you really are!

I use Stone Message as my ID on the FOG but I always sign off as Peter and everyone knows my last name as I always start my videos by introducing myself.

I would really like to be able to refer to people by their first name and say 'Hi Bob' or Hi Paul' whenever I refer to one of their posts. For that they just need to sign off each FOG entry with their first name.

I am not worried about knowing people's last name but am always concerned about anyone who creates a FOG ID just to make a point whether it is 'disgruntled user' or whatever. I always look at the length of time that members have been registered on the FOG and use that as part of my judgement about their real intentions.

As far an anonymity goes - why do people want to remain anonymous? A first name is all I am asking for. What have they to hide or rather why do they feel that they have to hide their identity when saying what they feel? It takes courage to stand in front of your fellow man and say what you think but no courage at all to hide behind a the skirts of anonymity. Free speech is great but we all have to be accountable.

Peter