VL or GE router table

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I am trying to figure out which router table to buy.  I have an mft with legs removed mounted on a homemade rolling cart.  Hopefully the photo will show up in this post. 
    The mft table height is 916 mm.  Was shooting for 900 so I am getting a lot better but still not quite there in terms of measuring. It looked perfect in sketch up. [big grin]
    Don't have any huge space constraints.
    Could get the CMS-GE as a stand alone and not worry about height difference or could get VL and put spacers under the legs.
    Any recommendations would be appreciated.
 

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The CMS-VL is a bit wider than the CMS-GE as the VL is the same width as an MFT/3 and the VL is a fair bit cheaper to buy.

Buy either, then make a DIY base to match the height of your MFT.

 
    I don't mean to hijack your thread but I am also trying to make a router table decision and I thought of this potential "problem" last night.  Where does the VL version go if/when not in use? (It doesn't fit in a systainer that's for sure)! Does it get leaned against the wall in the corner or something?  Space is very precious for me so this is a big issue and I see little benefit other than cost of the VL over the GE if you tend to move your MFT table around the shop the VL could be a real pain in the butt.  Just my 2 cents...
CB
 
2 benefits to the VL, it adds stability to the MFT (you don't need it with your config) and it opens up the possibility of using an incra fence. The extra in/outfeed compared to the GE is nice as well, but there are other ways to deal with that.
 
I chose the GE unit for its mobility. I can set up my shop outdoors without shlepping the MFT as well. Ymmv, tho.
 
Main question is...

Will it be in you shop more than out of it?  I have my MFT an VL in the shop about 100% of the time so that is why I picked the VL.

If you are going site with it, you might be better of with the stand alone version.

Cheers. Bryan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have both. I think there are advantages to both the VL and GE. Having a stand alone is easier to move, say you are doing some work on your home and need to route some pieces, easy to mov the GE rather than the MFT and VL, same with just needing a MFT.

However it you want to upgrade the CMSs fence to use the incra fence/set up which is brilliant,it would be best to get the VL its very simple though pricey to get the bits to set up the VL to use the incra system.

Basically its 6 of one half dozen of the other, they both have their pro and con
 
Thanks for the helpful input. I hadn't thought about the incra fence, so i am going to read up on the posts discussing that set-up.  Woodwork Wizard's comment about building a diy base to match also makes sense.  I don't need true portability but do tend to roll the mft cart around the garage.
 
The problem with adding a VL to the MFT is that sometimes fences and such on the VL will get in the way when you use the MFT, eg for crosscutting & you will have to take the fence off. I would prefer using a standalone GE.
 
Bert Vanderveen said:
The problem with adding a VL to the MFT is that sometimes fences and such on the VL will get in the way when you use the MFT, eg for crosscutting & you will have to take the fence off. I would prefer using a standalone GE.

If you don't have space constraints, why limit yourself to the Festool tables. I'd recommend looking at other available tables on the market. There are some great ones, including Incra, Woodpecker's, General, even Bench Dog. Certainly, if you do go with the Festool table, I would consider the upgrade of the fence. Having used these tables (just a few times), I'd say that is the one weakness, especially in terms of accuracy and setup. On the other hand, you will not find another table that includes the sliding table as one of its options. For that, I could understand your interest in the Festool tables.
 
grbmds:  Your comment is truly appreciated, but you have now sent me into the same overload that others have had when they are looking at router table configurations.  The Koolaid is expensive but easy to think about.  Going outside the system creates so many variables.
  While I don't have "huge" space constraints I initially didn't want a large stand-alone table and was thinking if I could attach something to the MFT, I could have a large work area.
  I liked BKHarman's set up with the CMS-VL and the Incra LS mounted to the MFT, but then started thinking that if I just get the basic VL without the sliding table and fence, it might not be worth the extra cost, and buying the sliding table as a separate component is darned expensive.
  A while back, you posted that you got the Incra Combo # 3 and were really happy with it.  I am currently thinking I could do the Combo # 4 (with the smaller table) and attach it to the MFT and mount the Incra LS 25 on the MFT and flip it around if I wanted to use it in conjunction with the track saw rail.  Total price including a new Porter Cable router would be roughly the same as the VL set up, and I could keep my OF 1400 free for hand routing.
  But on the other hand, maybe Incra Combo # 3 fits the bill perfectly.  And if I am just going to get a large stand alone table, the Jessum Master Lift Excel II with phenolic table sure looks nice.  But I don't need the Jessum Fence.  And so on.
  This is making me absolutely crazy.  But thanks for opening my mind a little.
 
Incra table with the prl-v2 lift and a porter cable router. You seriously won't regret it. The incra coping sled is also fantastic and makes the sliding table not necessary.

The incra fence and positioner are just great pieces of equipment.
 
I've had a self made table for years that has worked well for me.  Mine is over large, 24X49 as I regularly make large pieces on it.  The top is 1 1/8" double side melamine and has a Bench Dog lift (they were selling lifts for industrial use long before all these other companies), a Dust Router chip collector and a PC 7518.  I have a Incra 17" positioner and Wonderfence on this.  I also have a VL that I use a Woodpeckers positioner for adjusting the fence...Festools fence arrangement is not efficient at all.  If I was starting over I would buy Bench Dogs cast iron top and lift jusing the PC and Dust Router dust collector.
 
[member=40654]Mismarked[/member] Sorry for causing the distress. I usually create a spreadsheet with all the features of each alternative and costs of the various components plus discounts, giving me the whole picture. Admittedly, sometimes that doesn't completely resolve the issues, but it does lay out all the costs and sometimes you will find that you really don't need some features.

When I looked for a router table setup, it was also confusing to me. There are truly a number of alternatives these days, all accurate and easy to use.

I will never be sorry I bought the Combo #3. It will serve all my needs now and into the future. With the Incra Master Lift II, the PC 7518 motor, and the Incra positioner, I find that setup is easy and I have never been more accurate no matter what I am doing. I don't miss the sliding table, but you don't miss what you don't have many times.

I can tell you a couple of drawbacks of the Incra table for me in case that makes a difference . . .

  1.  If you plan to do box joints . . . Without buying the Incra I-box jig, the box joints fit depends on the tolerance of the straight bit you use. If the bit is ground a few thousandths off (which is likely possible as every company grinds to an acceptable tolerance for their products), it is possible the joint will be slightly loose or slightly tight. Since there is no way to adjust, without the I-box Jig, the end product is what it is. I bought the Whiteside bit set sold by Incra thinking that Incra would have picked the set which matches their products. My first attempt at a box joint resulted in looser fitting joints than I would like. They glued together but didn't really fit tight. If you don't do a lot of box joints, maybe this isn't a problem.

  2.  The Incra setup excels at dovetails. I have never found anything easier and more accurate (although I'm sure many will say cutting them by hand is better and faster). However, through dovetails require some minimal paring of the tails (?always get confused on tails and pins) because of the way they are cut. The final product is tremendous, but it takes practice at first to get this paring just right.

Other than these 2 things, I find the Incra is really the best and, with the under table collection box Incra sells (with the open table inserts), I believe that the dust collection matches the Festool table operation for operation based on my experience in Festool classes.

Unfortunately the final decision comes down to your situation; what you use it for, what other tools you own, and your space constraints, and maybe cost.

The VL with sliding table is attractive. I like the Festool table. In classes I've taken, it is also easy to setup, use, and the dust collection is great. I just feel the Incra table is more stable and an extremely accurate self-contained setup. I like it especially because I use the MFT completely separate from the router table and the positioner is so easy to use and get an accurate result. That works for me.

Also, as far as price goes, remember that it's likely that you would get a 10% discount based on some current promotion or being a first time buyer. I should warn you that Incra's shipping costs are high, though, and possibly would just compensate for the discount. Even so, when I bought, I found the Incra Combo #3 to be less expensive than the Festool table, even when the PC motor, router lift, and Incra under table dust collection was included.

Good luck.
 
I have said it many times... I really love my setup (which you referenced before). It does all I need and then some. When I had to make 2 dozen drawers earlier this year, the only thing I wished I had for my setup was another router plate for my CMS. That way I could have the two router setups for the dovetails and the drawer rabbets. Ultimately, I just adjusted my workflow a bit and all came out fine.

I can't say much, but I am working on one of the other things I don't prefer on my CMS. The first was the fence and I took care of that!  The second is the interface ring and clearance plates that come with it. You will have to stay tuned as it is still in "concept phase", but should be a very useful add on.

If you ever want further advice in the "for CMS VL with Incra fence", I will be glad to have a chat!

Cheers. Bryan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Usually a big Festool fan, but in all honesty I don't think their router table options are very good.  Once you move past the whole "it's a system" hook, you realize the Festool table is simply not as good as the competition.  Many complain about the fence, the guard / hold-down is poorly thought out and awkward, it's ridiculously overpriced for what you get, and you're forced to tie up your Festool plunge router instead of permanently installing a dedicated router motor.  You may wish to consider less expensive, more powerful, more feature rich alternatives (I'm partial to fully kitted out Jessem, but give all due respect to Incra, Kreg, General etc).  Pair one of them with a Porter Cable 7518 motor.  I'd only consider the Festool router table if (1) you'll be carrying it to the job site regularly, (2) space for a dedicate table is simply not an option.  I get that Festool is trying to focus on the high end portable jobsite market, but with their router table I think they have made a lot of compromises to achieve that portability and system integration.
 
^^
The Festool table could use some improvements with easier alignment etc. But the system as a whole is pretty nice.

@TS:
Having everything at the same height can be very usefull. When I use something in the modular table, I can use the Precisio and MFT as supports.
 
I had the same question awhile ago, VL or GE.  I liked the VL for the same reasons mentioned above, stability, more work table surface when not in use.  But chose the GE because I work out of a trailer.  If you can imagine keeping the VL attached to the MFT at all times, then I think VL is worth it.  If I had a stationary workshop, I would build a base cabinet with the MFT and VL sitting ontop, ie like woodworker wizards.  and put the contraption on wheels.

Actually, I'm in the process now of how I can integrate my Paulk work bench and the CMS table in a mobile workshop.
 
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