Wayfair kitchen cabinets

[Packard]

Wayfair apparently wants to do battle with Ikea in the kitchen cabinet wars.

I saw them being used in one of the HGTV shows. 

How do they compare with Ikea?  With other commercially available cabinets?

Has anyone used them?
https://www.wayfair.com/home/sb0/st...inets-l6411.html?refid=GX392806585840.Wayfair+kitchen+cabinets%7Ee&position=&network=g&pcrid=392806585840&device=c&targetid=kwd-832386807280&channel=GoogleBrand&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0-KVq76G_gIVMzizAB1pJQXfEAAYASAAEgKehfD_BwE

 

[squall_line]

I thought Wayfair was just a reseller and not an OEM?

 

[cgraham]

Never used their kitchen cabinets but we have done several bathroom renos with their vanities and they are surprisingly well built. It takes an hour to get all the packaging off because they are very well protected. They come with tops with under mount sinks, soft close hinges and drawers, touch up kits and adjustable legs

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The only experience I have with Wayfair is from a TV console that my daughter bought for her first apartment. She got it together and it worked just fine, for a while. It's pretty long, over 5 feet. Over a period of a year or so, because of the TV sitting on it, it sagged in the middle. (Quite a bit, actually)
I cured it by building a center platform and covering the sides with black laminate. It completely disappears from view, made it much more solid and the feet were only off the floor for a few months  [big grin]
while it relaxed.
I definitely could have made something better, not like to have been cheaper, even with no labor cost......and certainly not in a couple of days.

 

[Packard]

I thought Wayfair was just a reseller and not an OEM?

I believe you are correct.  I think they are emulating IKEA, which is also not a manufacturer.

I believe that Wayfair made some very clear specifications along with some target pricing using IKEA’s pricing to establish that target.

In a sense, IKEA has done the heavy lifting in this market segment—they have shown the roadmap for success for others to copy.

While IKEA has a fairly solid reputation in kitchens, Wayfair is yet to do so.

To steal customers that would gravitate to IKEA, Wayfair would have to either offer better service, better quality or better pricing than IKEA.

So are their prices better?  And what’s their quality like?

 

[six-point socket II]

It's the same junk that we (in Germany) have been offered for years and years by "cheaper than IKEA" IKEA-competitors.

Wayfair itself has quite a few competitors online.

While I can't prove it, I'm fairly sure it's a couple of manufacturers that produce for all of them. That's why you find identical products, designs and promotions that look exactly the same just in a different CI. ...

If you look closely you see that the product picture's backgrounds are not staged but photoshopped and re-appear over time/ product categories.

Might be an option for "first timers" on a tight budget or people who generally change furniture multiple times a year/ go with color trends. ...

And, since it's basically all the same you can easily "hack" it together, spice it up with some aftermarket accessories and achieve a certain look. I did so for a friend who is on an incredible tight budget, but she got her dream bed-/dressing-room including inside cabinet lighting, outer lighting, floating shelves with lighting, floating night-stands, wall mounted night stand lighting, (...).

Now given, she had me & my tools to help with it/ do it, obviously without any compensation - that makes any real calculation of cost almost impossible. But I will say, overall this furniture is easily assembled/hacked/worked on even with most basic & cheap DIY tools from the big box stores.

Aftermarket accessories come in so many different options, you can easily achieve cool looking results even without touching any hole saws, routers, saws, (...). ...

And that's what this stuff comes down to in the end. Looks.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Packard]

Do they allow you to order just doors and drawer fronts?  That might be handy for refacing cabinets.

Also, I am not certain that judging a product’s quality by the quality of the photo shopping is necessarily going to prove accurate. 

I would be curious if anyone has used these cabinets.

 

[six-point socket II]

I haven't seen any offerings like that on the German site at first glance.

Judging by the pictures and finding them on other (wholesale/distributor/manufacturer) sites is a very effective way of understanding what you will actually get. Of course, I'm not talking about just the kitchen cabinets here.

I'm not saying that they do not might have a good offer from time to time. But in the end, most of it is the cheapest particle board with the cheapest (thinnest) veneer and edge banding possible. It simply doesn't last, especially in those areas that are constantly stressed. For example, I had to re-attach the front edge banding on her desk after a couple of months use. A bit sweat on her arm, the constant rubbing while using the mouse were enough to get it detached. So the first time we did a quick fix by ironing it back on. After it detached again, it was a more time consuming fix. Because obviously, that edge banding in the exact decor/design is not easily obtained, if at all. So I had to salvage the old and reattach it.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Packard]

Strange.  I saw these (they made sure to show the cartons with the Wayfair name) on the HGTV show “Rock the Block”.

That show is entirely backed by Wayfair with frequent comments on how all the furnishing were ordered online from Wayfair.

What is odd about this, is that the projected final sale of the remodeled homes is in the 2 - 3 million dollar range.  A strange place to use budget cabinets.
https://www.hgtv.com/shows/rock-the-block

Here is the entire kitchen episode (1 hour video).  It is a competition between the four sets of designers.  They do some very interesting stuff in those kitchens.
https://watch.hgtv.com/video/rock-the-block-hgtv-atve-us/kitchen-face-off

 

[six-point socket II]

It's called product placement/advertising.

And how many people that watch the show are potential buyers of million-dollar homes/ or in the market for million-dollar makeovers?

The average/targeted viewers just like the looks, have no clue about quality, pick up "Wayfair" (or any other brand name along the way) and start looking for it and are somehow surprised to find that it is quite affordable. (Because they are the targeted audience by the product placement/advertising.)

Nothing in those shows is made to last. It's entertainment & advertising. The same route YT took a turn for a couple of years ago.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[xedos]

I thought Wayfair was just a reseller and not an OEM?

I believe you are correct.  I think they are emulating IKEA, which is also not a manufacturer.

In a sense, IKEA has done the heavy lifting in this market segment—they have shown the roadmap for success for others to copy.

While IKEA has a fairly solid reputation in kitchens, Wayfair is yet to do so.

To steal customers that would gravitate to IKEA, Wayfair would have to either offer better service, better quality or better pricing than IKEA.

So are their prices better?  And what’s their quality like?

Not sure where you get your info , but IKEA is absolutely a manufacturer.  They are one of the most vertically integrated operations in the world - right down to the trees that get chopped up to make the furniture.  They also use outside vendors/partners/manufacturers for their products too. Most notably their upholstered pieces.

But don’t confuse that for them being just a middleman like wayfair.

One of Ikea’s latest operations:https://about.ikea.com/en/newsroom/2017/09/21/ikea-industry-invests-in-kazl-rda-furniture-production

Nat Geo expo on the size of one of their factories.
https://www.natgeotv.com/ca/megafactories/galleries/ikea#8839

They even had a factory in VA that they closed circa 2019-20 to shift production to Europe because it was cheaper.

 

[Packard]

I was aware that IKEA specified construction methods and designed some of the kd joinery for their vendors.  I was not aware that they manufactured in house.  I thought they were exclusive customers of some manufacturers. I will do some research.
https://www.hunker.com/13710050/where-is-ikea-furniture-manufactured

IKEA is the world's largest furniture retailer, but it doesn't manufacture the furniture it sells. While most of the IKEA products are designed in Sweden, much of the actual manufacturing takes place in China and in developing countries such as Vietnam, Malaysia and Myanmar, and also in Eastern European countries such as Romania and Poland. In all, something like 1,350 vendors in 52 countries are responsible for supplying IKEA's Swedish-style furniture.

And from IKEA’s website:
https://www.ikea.com/es/en/customer...les/4g3g7c5c-f5c1-4g22-808f-9bb81g8b3ecb.html

The five countries that supply the majority of products and services to IKEA are China, Poland, Italy, Germany and Sweden. The profile of our well-designed and high-quality product range is clearly Swedish/Scandinavian. Its low price is incorporated in its production, and the use of flat packages facilitates rational distribution self-service and the opportunity to take your products home there and then.

And…

At the Wayfair site they list the manufacturers of their cabinets.  The cheaper line offers little in the way of specifications, but the premium line (DL Mfg) lists materials as 1/2” plywood and maple wood for their painted cabinets.

It does appear that they are using the IKEA business model.

 

[squall_line]

The wording on IKEA's website is likely intentionally vague; it neither really confirms nor denies whether or not the factories themselves are owned and run by IKEA or if they source their products from other vendors.

That said, saying that IKEA is not an OEM because it has its products manufactured in China, Germany, Poland, and Italy as well as Sweden, is like saying that Festool is not an OEM because its products are manufactured in the Czech Republic and China.  Or Apple?

Wayfair may have their own in-house brand, but they're more like Target or WalMart, selling products that you can buy other places just at a different price.  If they have an in-house brand, it's because they're emulating Amazon, who either puts their brand on white-label goods, or occasionally produces their own goods to undercut the OEMs who sell through their website.  The retailer has so much more data on sell-through and buying habits than the manufacturer in that case, and can use it to their advantage to target specific items that sell consistently well to bring their margins in-house.

 

[xedos]

Pack - I'm not sure if you're pushing an agenda or are just easily swayed by slick, ignorant west coasters like Hunker.  An outfit that clearly doesn't know what they're talking about in this case.  Linking a story filled with errors from a 2nd rate source doesn't help your case.  And how do you splain away the picture of an IKEA factory on their website that I linked ?  Fake picture installed by a hacker ?

Here's an easy to digest rundown ...............take a minute to actually read the "core business supply" description in which IKEA themselves state they are a manufacturer  !
https://www.inter.ikea.com/en/this-is-inter-ikea-group/our-business-in-brief

As Squall's more eloquently pointed out - your conclusions are suspect.

Believe what you want, but I don't see how any reasonable person would think that -  a publicly traded company that is losing money coming out of the biggest buying spree in a generation, and has one retail location with no manufacturing capability is the same as or is even emulating a  -  very closely held , profitable,  private company that has more than 450 retail stores in 60 countries, and that designs all their own products while manufacturing many of them with material sourced from land owned by the company........................

but hey, if you still think those are the same biz model  [eek]

 

[Packard]

I just googled each of the four divisions listed in the corporate pyramid. They all dance around what they do.  They supply, they design, they distribute—all things a manufacturer does— but they never come out and say that they manufacture.

I had customer that made scanner hooks and displays (Trion Industries). They are one of the largest producers of those items in the USA.

And though they presented themselves as manufacturers, our company produced all the wire components, a local stamping company produced the stamping sand did the welding, another made the plastic extrusion, another printed the display cards.

When I first knew them, they were the second largest in the industry and all they had was an office in Mineola.  They have gone on to opening their own factory, but their status as a manufacturer has never changed.

Reading the Hoovers reports and the Bloomberg reports, there is no indication that the have any actual factories.

I have no dog in this fight.  I don’t care if they buy or build.  I’m just doing some critical reading.

I do know that they have some patents on joinery method for the flat pack furniture industry.  I assume they license that tech for thei products only.  But I am not seeing any owned facility for manufacturing.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I’ve fitted 35-40 IKEA kitchens, all of which are manufactured in Lithuania. The holding company (Inter IKEA) use manufacturing plants such as Swedwood which are (mostly) wholly-owned subsidiaries of the holding company. This business model has likely been established for tax reasons.

 

[peter halle]

All I can say is that after being a customer of Ikea for more than thirty years (last purchase within the past 4 months) and also buying from Wayfair, there is no way I would purchase cabinets from Wayfair.

Ikea's model is time-proven for them, they are profitable (call me crazy but I always prefer to do business with companies that have proven that they can succeed - and profitability is the major reason that businesses are formed usually), and I have faith that they will be around in 5 years.

I can't say that for Wayfair which is nothing more than a middle-man in my eyes.

Everyone has the right to purchase from any company they wish.  They have the right to roll the dice as many times as they wish in their purchase gamble.

A true story that is similar to some degree.  About six months ago I saw an ad for a light that I thought was very different and that both my wife and I liked.  We ordered it from another one of these Covid era popular sites.  When we ordered it was made clear that the wait time would be 4 to 6 weeks.  After three months I contacted the site and asked about the delay.  There was a delay in getting back to me.  Because the item was a special order my credit card had already been charged at the time of the order.  The seller got back to me and told me that they had reached out to the manufacturer and that there had been delays which should be cured soon.  Very strangely a few days later the manufacturer contacted me and informed me that the order would never be fulfilled.  That seller was more than 6 months behind in payments for products shipped to them and sold, and the manufacturer would not be sending any more product.  Strange.

I contacted the seller and again inquired about the status, and was given the same story as the first time and was also told that because my order was "a special order" it couldn't be cancelled.  I chuckled, then sent a copy of the email that I had also received from the manufacturer, and demanded a refund.  In researching I had discovered in the news that numerous vendors were in the same boat due to the seller being unable to secure another round of venture funding.  It still took two weeks for a refund but it happened.  The manufacturer (in Florida) offered to sell me the product at the same price I ordered at.  I decided not to order because I still had a bad taste in my mouth.  I won't order from that seller again.

Many of the companies that exploded during the Covid timeframe based on huge influxes of cashflow will have a day of reckoning once that flow slows.  If the only way a company can exist is thru constant influxes of capital to get over the hump, one day those pockets will run dry.  Whether the faucet stops before the drain does is the business question (gamble).

Peter

 

[xedos]

I just googled each of the four divisions listed in the corporate pyramid. They all dance around what they do.  They supply, they design, they distribute—all things a manufacturer does— but they never come out and say that they manufacture.

guess ya missed this tidbit on Ikea's site in my last link, eh ?

" IKEA Industry AB, a strategic IKEA manufacturer owned by Inter IKEA Group, is closely integrated with Core Business Supply."

Why is it so hard to believe that they manufacturer ?  If your mantra was efficiency and raising margins (which is what IKEA's is) would you specify how your stuff is to be made (and hope it happens) -or- just set up your own operation where you have total control ? 

Perhaps you'd like a QC job at one of their factories - places where stuff is manufactured.
https://jobs.smartrecruiters.com/In...manufacturing-development-boards-technologies

 

[Cheese]

A few years ago, I remember reading that 30 semi-trailers full of particle board arrived at the Ikea manufacturing facility every day. That's a lot of material to burn through every day if you aren't actually in the manufacturing business.  [eek]

Also found this today:
IKEA Industry
IKEA Industry A.B. produces 10-12% of the IKEA range of products. The company mostly focuses on wooden furniture. It was founded in 1991 as Swedwood International AB. The company name was changed from Swedwood International AB to IKEA Industry A.B. in September 2013. The company has always been based in Sweden.

From their Instagram account:
IKEA Industry
Our everyday life at the world’s largest producer of wooden furniture.
IKEA Industry makes furniture for IKEA customers #ikeaindustry @ikeaindustry
www.ikea.com/global/en/events/festival/ikea-news?id=595092227
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