What wood for shutters

[richard.selwyn]

I have a client who wants some external shutters made out of chestnut. I have already quoted for hardwood - probably meranti. I have read that chestnut can split. (I don't really want to make them out of chestnut.)They will be shut most of the time in a holiday home in cold wet Normandy.
Any suggestions please.
Thanks in advance
Richard
PS, in Sardinia I saw a lot of painted shutters made out of plywood!

 

[deadplumb]

In the USA, basswood is often used for shutters.  It is straight, strong, lightweight and has a very fine and uniform grain.  It sands to a very smooth finish and is very easy to work.  Takes both stain and paint well.

 

[peter halle]

Is basswood used for Exterior shutters?  I know that it is used along with aspen for Interior shutters.

Peter

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I don't know if you can get Rockler products in France, but they have several new kits for making shutters. These were just released a couple weeks ago. They include an on-line (design wizard) program for designing your shutter parts, and also the parts to make the shutters, and jigs for drilling/mortising. They also include some Really, really, really good instructions with the jigs...not that I would know anything about the instructions.  [tongue]

The different kits include the necessary jigs. They also have the pins for movable or fixed shutters, and control arm clips for movable shutters. You can even buy the bass wood components that are pre-milled for the slats, stiles, and rails that you cut to length for your design. They also have the full set of router bits for milling your own stock.

http://www.rockler.com/c/plantation-shutter-program.cfm

I don't know all of the in's and out's of this new product, except it was created as a complete system (or as separate components if you wish). Yes, I did begin writing the instructions, but with a sudden last minute schedule change, I just turned over all of the text and artwork to Rockler for final processing. (The schedule got bumped forward to release before Christmas.)

 

[Scarpia]

I don't know if you have it there or what it is called there, but I built 14 pairs of exterior shutters out of "Spanish cedar" about 3 years ago. I believe it is from south America. Mahogany also woks well for exterior use.

 

[RonMiller]

I think the various forms of Cedar are what's often used in the US for this.

 

[richard.selwyn]

Thanks for the replies so far.
Can anyone confirm is chestnut is liable to splitting so I can use it an an argument? Bearing in mind the client wants to paint the shutters I am starting to wonder if exotic hardwood is such a good idea as paint here seems to drop of stuff pretty quickly,
Thanks,
Richard

 

[Wonderwino]

Cypress is also a good choice for exterior applications.  Guttering was made from this wood for many years and it stands up well to moisture and can be painted.

 

[Nigel]

  Around here Chestnut is used for quality traditional shutters.I made some the other day. The problem I find with chestnut is that it tends to warp a bit when you rip it down  so you have to have enough to straighten it again. However it's worth the work because they look great when treated with a chestnut lasure and last forever.It can be a bit splitty but not too bad. Having said all that if your shutters are to be painted why not use pine [sapin du nord] which takes paint better than exotic and is much cheaper and you can buy the parts of the shelf?Are they braced or traditional stiles?

 

[richard.selwyn]

Thanks for the replies
They'll be traditional 'barre et écharpe' - braced with diagonal supports. The problem is the client wants chestnut and wants it painted. I've tried suggesting other solutions. I quoted fairly high for the job as I don't like the idea of painting chestnut and buying the planks will be expensive, but I am afraid I need the work.
If the stock will move after its cut, will 34 mm planks be enough to give 28mm finished section?
I am also concerned that my cutters aren't adequate. What length tongue / groove do the experts think I need? Someone said yesterday that with the terrible climate here an 8mm tongue was not sufficient. I would have thought that if there was more movement than that the things would fall apart anyway.
Thanks in advance,
Richard

 

[Nigel]

Hi Richard,

Sorry - I didn't describe what I meant a bit  better.

My door shutter was a traditional stile and rail type with tenons.I'm not sure I've even seen a non traditional [poke] ' barre et echarpe' in Chestnut.

The frame was supposed to be 100mm wide by 34mm thick.I ripped to slightly over 100mm but due to stresses in the timber I had to straighten it again and ended up at 90mm no big deal.Maybe it was just my timber but it happened on all the planks.I don't know what you can get hold of but in this size I can only get rough sawn planks in Chestnut.

Anyway I made up the T + G [10mm tongue] as well  as the frame and had to rip everything twice to get a straight line. So my boards were going narrower all the time - only just had enough!

Everything was fine after this and turned out a rock solid job.

You'll be okay with 34mm to get 28mm but I reckon you need to have 45mm to get 34mm for the frame and brace.

Incidentally you can get 2m x 90mm x 22mm floorboards in Chestnut [Gedimat] which would save a lot of work and although a bit thinner I reckon would be OK on a solid frame.

hope this helps.

 

[semenza]

I am curious why your client wants chestnut so adamantly if it is being painted. Did they give a reason? Personally I'd go with cypress.

Seth

 

[richard.selwyn]

Thanks for the replies.
Nigel, you've got me worried now about everything warping.
Seth, I don't suppose cypress is used much here in Normandy, France. I think they want Chestnut because its traditional.
The stock shutters here seem to have quite a profile on the edge of the vertical slats which seems to allow for extra ingress of water. Seems a poor design to me, but there is doubtless a reason for it. Any ideas?

 

[semenza]

Richard,

Hmmmm, didn't think about availability issues.  Fir? 

Seth

 

[Nigel]

Thanks for the replies.
Nigel, you've got me worried now about everything warping.
Seth, I don't suppose cypress is used much here in Normandy, France. I think they want Chestnut because its traditional.
The stock shutters here seem to have quite a profile on the edge of the vertical slats which seems to allow for extra ingress of water. Seems a poor design to me, but there is doubtless a reason for it. Any ideas?

Richard,

Don't worry about warping just have enough to rip down to .Once it's done it's perfectly stable. Seems a shame to paint though...

Don't know about your profile. Here it's just normal [grain d'orge or v] tongue and groove. Sometimes see another one with a bead [moustique]? - but I never use it.

 

[JeromeM]

I have a client who wants some external shutters made out of chestnut. I have already quoted for hardwood - probably meranti. I have read that chestnut can split. (I don't really want to make them out of chestnut.)They will be shut most of the time in a holiday home in cold wet Normandy.
Any suggestions please.
Thanks in advance
Richard

There is an excelent reason for chestnut and that it is one of the most rot resistant native woods you can get. Its life span, without any treatment, in direct soil contact is double that of oak. You can get 80 to 150 years and more depending on post size  All the best wire and post movable fences are made from chestnut and have been split with a froe. It is still produced and used today in Britain
http://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/fencing/agricultural-fencing/cleft-chestnut-fencing/agricultural-fencing-cleft-chestnut-fencing.aspx http://www.torryhill.co.uk/chestnut-fencing.aspx
Certainly when green it splits beautifully and easly. When I was still in England full time I helped coppice chestnut and construct green chestnut paling and post fences that have now been in use for over 40 years out doors untreated and are still in use today.

I can't comment on how it works when seasoned or cut as I only worked with the green wood and only ever used a froe, apart fom a chainsaw to cut it to length an an axe to put points on the palings.

I would expect that, that is the reason why it is a traditional wood to use. Country side French are not stupid [smile] despite what we say about their letters. ;D

 

[tiralie]

Fascinating discussion.
Before reading this and doing some research I knew little to nothing as to how shutters were built in France. For those of you interested as I am in 'barre et écharpe' shutters and how they are constructed check out the site and the nice green tools they are using.
I like the fact that in France shutters are actually used.
Here in Canada, we put shutters (Louvered) on houses but they are just decorative (no hardware) and architecturally they look strange 'cause they would never cover the window if they could be closed.
Tim

 

[richard.selwyn]

No one round here sets the 'barres' into the stock like in your link (which I found a while ago and think is very interesting) It is perhaps a good idea though. I just worry that it might increase the risk of water ingress. Generally shutters here rot wherever water has a chance to accumulate.
Rchard

 

[rdesigns]

Fascinating discussion.
Before reading this and doing some research I knew little to nothing as to how shutters were built in France. For those of you interested as I am in 'barre et écharpe' shutters and how they are constructed check out the site and the nice green tools they are using.
I like the fact that in France shutters are actually used.
Here in Canada, we put shutters (Louvered) on houses but they are just decorative (no hardware) and architecturally they look strange 'cause they would never cover the window if they could be closed.
Tim

Thanks for that really informative link--even if I don't read French.

Those shutters are obviously built for the long term, and are meant to be used. One more reason to admire French practicality.

The OP's client's wanting them painted makes perfect sense to me. No stain/sealer will ever compare to the protection that paint can give.

 

[tiralie]

No one round here sets the 'barres' into the stock like in your link (which I found a while ago and think is very interesting) It is perhaps a good idea though. I just worry that it might increase the risk of water ingress. Generally shutters here rot wherever water has a chance to accumulate.
Rchard

Richard:
Interesting. Jerome seems to have covered the rot resistance issue. It was something (setting the barres into the stock) I was curious about after seeing photo's of the "commercial" ones online.
I suppose the cut in keeps the boards flat to the frame through the huge swings in temperature from direct sun during the day to cool evenings. I do like the angled detail on the barre and I suspect that sheds a lot of water. I would be more worried about the condensation and mold developing on the back of the boards because of the difference in temperature from the front of the shutter to the back.
Tim