Who needs a jointer?

[Sam Murdoch]

Here is a good link for a table saw straightening jig that I saw this morning on Contractor Talk courtesy of Leo. G,  I'm sure he is happy to share. www.woodworkingtalk.com/f27/b...ble-saw-16999/

 

[Nigel]

Sam,Thanks for the link.

It's a good jig that one but I had to laugh.

If you scroll further down the thread there's a video from Charles Neil who seems to be fairly well known over there.
Well his method is a better version of mine using a sliding fence!  He explains it very well ,far better than me.
I have to say he is straightlining a severely curved  piece I would immediately get the TS out for.However it illustrates the point.He calls it glueline ripping.

One other thing I got from this thread.In the US you seem for some reason to use saws without riving knives?Is this correct?Part of the thread says:

'this is ripping operation and a splitter should be used'

Well in Europe you would be hard pressed to find any tablesaw without a riving knife [mine has a large riving knife/plate behind the blade].

I don't really understand why anyone would risk using a saw without this simple but [to me] absolutely vital part?Can anyone explain?

Anyway heres Charles Neil.I hope this man can get the point across to the naysayers.

Please anyone reading this ALWAYS USE A RIVING KNIFE! Sorry for shouting.

 

[jakiiski]

Reason for not having the splitters in US is the wide usage of dado-blades, the riving knife would typically be in the way when you are dadoing. Dado blades are almost extinct in Europe due to the heavy mass of dado blades & blade brakes not always being compliant (the mass of dado blade can make the arbor nut loose -> off the blade flies).

 

[Timtool]

Reason for not having the splitters in US is the wide usage of dado-blades, the riving knife would typically be in the way when you are dadoing. Dado blades are almost extinct in Europe due to the heavy mass of dado blades & blade brakes not always being compliant (the mass of dado blade can make the arbor nut loose -> off the blade flies).

i thought tablesaws in europe weren't allowed to accept dado sets? it sure isn't legal here. just like you can't have shapers with a split in the arbor, it caused too many injuries.
by regulation european tablesaws must have the blade stopping within 10 seconds, maybe that's the cause aswell.

anyway felder now offers tablesaws that accept some kind of dado blade, it looks like a groove cutter or very wide blade. don't know how they managed to get it passed.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Reason for not having the splitters in US is the wide usage of dado-blades, the riving knife would typically be in the way when you are dadoing.

Why would the dado blade be in the way? A riving knife is supposed to fit exactly behind the blade.

 

[EvilNuff]

Riving knives are still pretty new in the US.  Newer saws will have them but older used ones will not.  Personally, I think buying a used saw without one is a crazy idea even if they are cheaper than new.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Interesting thread!  I can see how it would work with a very long fence, or a sliding jig the length of the board, but all things considered, I'm gonna keep my jointer. [wink]

The story on riving knives in the US is that a few years ago one of the regulatory bodies (I forget whether it was UL, or CPSC, or OSHA, or whomever) required that all new models of tablesaws must have riving knives.  They still sell older designs without riving knives, but any new design requires a riving knife.  At the time there was the same hoopla we have now about the sawstop technology - this new requirement was going to greatly increase the costs of saws and no one would be able to afford a saw anymore...

The problem with splitters in the US is that they are often poorly designed and integrated with dust hoods - most of us either buy an aftermarket splitter or just do without - really dangerous.

 

[rdesigns]

You can also snap a chalk line along one edge and run your circular saw (TS or whatever you've got) freehand, but as accurately as possible, along the line. You will then have a decently straight edge to run against the fence of your tablesaw. It will be safe and the small inaccuracies of the cut made with the circular saw will average out over the length of the board.

The new cut on the tablewaw will be square to bottom face of the board, and if you need an even straighter edge, run the board thru again with the new edge against the fence.

 

[Nigel]

Reason for not having the splitters in US is the wide usage of dado-blades, the riving knife would typically be in the way when you are dadoing.

Why would the dado blade be in the way? A riving knife is supposed to fit exactly behind the blade.

Riving knives with guards always seem to project above the blade and would be in the way but it wouldn't take much to design a lower profile version with removable guard.Whether it would pass all the safety regs is a anyones guess.

 

[Nigel]

You can also snap a chalk line along one edge and run your circular saw (TS or whatever you've got) freehand, but as accurately as possible, along the line. You will then have a decently straight edge to run against the fence of your tablesaw. It will be safe and the small inaccuracies of the cut made with the circular saw will average out over the length of the board.

The new cut on the tablewaw will be square to bottom face of the board, and if you need an even straighter edge, run the board thru again with the new edge against the fence.

You could and it would work as you say.
For me it's about speeding up the process of straightlining and squaring stock.Any extra stages would get in the way.
Incidentally I really wouldn't advise using a Festool TS freehand without the rail.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Reason for not having the splitters in US is the wide usage of dado-blades, the riving knife would typically be in the way when you are dadoing.

Why would the dado blade be in the way? A riving knife is supposed to fit exactly behind the blade.

Riving knives with guards always seem to project above the blade and would be in the way but it wouldn't take much to design a lower profile version with removable guard.Whether it would pass all the safety regs is a anyones guess.

It ain't my guess. My CS70 has a riving knive that can be put in 2 positions, the first directly behind the blade and the second a bit higher so you can mount a guard.

 

[Timtool]

the rep from robland who installed my sliding panelsaw said the riving knife extended above the blade mainly because by regulation (CE?) tablesaws must not allow you to make plunged or hidden cuts (where the blade doesnt cut through the top).
it is considered as a dangerous prohibited operation, though they know everybody does it, and i need to remove the riving knife entirely for certain of these operations that i couldn't do otherwise.

You can also snap a chalk line along one edge and run your circular saw (TS or whatever you've got) freehand, but as accurately as possible, along the line. You will then have a decently straight edge to run against the fence of your tablesaw. It will be safe and the small inaccuracies of the cut made with the circular saw will average out over the length of the board.

The new cut on the tablewaw will be square to bottom face of the board, and if you need an even straighter edge, run the board thru again with the new edge against the fence.

when i edge line a slab on my panelsaw without any fence, then the edge is usually so straight that it requires only one pass on the jointer to be joined, meaning that over a length of about 4-5ft i have less than 1mm error.

i used to edge line by drawing a line on the slab and then trying to approximatively follow it with the bandsaw, dangerous, not accurate and backbreaking.

 

[Nigel]

Reason for not having the splitters in US is the wide usage of dado-blades, the riving knife would typically be in the way when you are dadoing.

Why would the dado blade be in the way? A riving knife is supposed to fit exactly behind the blade.

Riving knives with guards always seem to project above the blade and would be in the way but it wouldn't take much to design a lower profile version with removable guard.Whether it would pass all the safety regs is a anyones guess.

It ain't my guess. My CS70 has a riving knive that can be put in 2 positions, the first directly behind the blade and the second a bit higher so you can mount a guard.

Really?That's a cool feature,better than the CMS.You have to change the riving knife for the standard one to make a dado cut.