Wine rack design advice please

[Captainwrinkles]

I'm in need of some advice. I'd like to build the wine rack that i've drawn up in the attached Sketchup file.
The thing is, I'm not sure if the construction of the bottle support will be strong enough to hold 60+ bottles
of wine. Well....I'm pretty sure that it will, but asking my partner the same question ends up with a (it looks pretty) response.

The cabinet itself will be made of PB core maple veneer, the top and base made up of random solids and the bottle
supports made of either solid Walnut for contrast or solid maple.

I've tried to show the assembly in the little example next to the cabinet of how i intend to give the supports strength.
the back will be made with 2 pieces of PB core Maple veneer or plywood, whichever offers the most strength. 1 with cutouts to
match the supports profile and the other with holes drilled to allow 2-3" screws for joint strength and I intend to
use glue throughout the joint. Ive also thought of using mortice and tenon joints (not dominos) but think that
will be more work

So, Any problems i havent foreseen?

Thanks
Benn

 

[tiralie]

So, Any problems i havent foreseen?

Fully loaded that cabinet  will have +/- about 192lbs of wine in it, each bottle weighing approx. 3.3-3.9lbs. If I used chipboard I would be more worried about the sides bowing out over time, so I would use 3/4" plywood over the 1/2" you have in your drawing.
Tim

 

[nclemmons]

You are about 13" deep.  I think you will see some deflection of those walnut pieces over time if they are only 3/4 into a piece of plywood, even glued in place.

You might think about making the back thicker to better support the walnut pieces.  Perhaps imbed them in 2 pieces of 3/4 ply with a back piece with the screw.  That would give you 1.5" of holding power, or a bit over 10% of the total distance.  I realize most of the wine weight should be at the mid-to-back of the cabinet, but unless you find quarter sawn wood, you are likely to see bowing of the wood with weight and time.

One other thought = have you thought about routing a round end of the walnut pieces to make it easier to imbed them to what I would suggest be 1 1/2 inches?  Far easier to drill a 3/4 hole than to cut that many 3/4 square mortises accurately.  You could make a simple routing jig that would let you capture the walnut in a circular holder (a hole the diagonal of the strips) and then just go over a router bit to make them a consistent diameter of 3/4 inches.

Just a couple of thoughts.

neil

 

[Captainwrinkles]

I agree with you both now. I think a 3/4 back is essential, and the more i think of it maybe even
2 pieces of 3/4 ply for the back. The mortices wont be a problem as i run a CNC for my day job, so ill
be able to cut those as accurately as i need.

I'm starting to think about imbedding some(2-4) steel bars in between the 2 back pieces spaced evenly to
reduce the chance of the plywood sagging in towards the middle of the cabinet.

Maybe i could use a lag bolt and washer inbedded into the back of the 2nd back to give even better holding
power than just 1 simple deck screw into the supports.

Will that hold?

 

[nclemmons]

If you have a CNC, build a prototype.  take 8 pieces of the horizontal members and cut 8 moritises - 2 wide by 4 high in 3 pieces of 3/4 ply.  Slip it into the two back pieces and glue in place.  Place four bottles of wine on the shelf and use the third piece to 'index' the outboard ends of the horizontal members.  Let it sit for a few days and see if you get any deflection.

My concern is that with weight on some of those horizontal members and none on others, you will in time see that the horizontal supports no longer align both from a spread of the wine bottle on them and the downward pressure.  I think you'll be surprised how much the wood could bow with weight in time.

Have you considered making the horizontal members out of aluminum square tubing and capping them on the ends with pieces of walnut?  If you have CNC, that might be a possibility and still deliver the design aesthetic.

neil

 

[Kev]

My biggest fear would be accidental pressure. This structure is delicate, but in "perfect conditions" there wouldn't be any issues as long as there's sufficient structure to the rear.

A problem with a design like this is the lack of "tuning". Over time it will be very annoying to look at if some of the supports deflect even minutely ... putting the front out a few mm - just like the dead pixel on the TV !

Also consider a little warping of the bottle supports - possible ... you may want to do something laminated maybe ??

I would certainly build a 4 or 9 bottle prototype - the learning may be a great way to avoid a possible disappointment [wink]

 

[Captainwrinkles]

If you have a CNC, build a prototype.  take 8 pieces of the horizontal members and cut 8 moritises - 2 wide by 4 high in 3 pieces of 3/4 ply.  Slip it into the two back pieces and glue in place.  Place four bottles of wine on the shelf and use the third piece to 'index' the outboard ends of the horizontal members.  Let it sit for a few days and see if you get any deflection.

My concern is that with weight on some of those horizontal members and none on others, you will in time see that the horizontal supports no longer align both from a spread of the wine bottle on them and the downward pressure.  I think you'll be surprised how much the wood could bow with weight in time.

Have you considered making the horizontal members out of aluminum square tubing and capping them on the ends with pieces of walnut?  If you have CNC, that might be a possibility and still deliver the design aesthetic.

I like the idea of a prototype. When i get the chance i knock something together and see how it goes. Upon further review, i
think the 1 inch square supports wont be strong/stiff enough. It looks ok on the computer screen but when i actually have a piece of 1 inch
square wood in my hands, it looks very weak to support that much weight.  That will have to be beefed up i think. Maybe 40-45mm square

I like the idea of aluminium tubing . but i think id still have the problem of deflection side to side. Still a good idea though. ill see how the first prototype goes.
steel tubing welding to a back sheet of steel would be ideal. Alas, i dont have welding knowledge and would like to build this in my garage when winter finally ends.

A problem with a design like this is the lack of "tuning". Over time it will be very annoying to look at if some of the supports deflect even minutely ... putting the front out a few mm - just like the dead pixel on the TV !

Yeah or that little dent that no one notices on the bookcase that drives me insane every time i see the bookcase

 

[Wonderwino]

If you are screwing into end grain that is going to be under stress, I would suggest adding hardwood cross-dowels to the bottle bars to give the screws a better grip.  This will help keep them from pulling out under load.  You may want to consider adding a wire lattice, at least on the vertical, between the front of the bottle bars to help support the weight and keep the bars from sagging.