23-gauge Pin Nailers?

[smorgasbord]

I have a 18-gauge brad nailer that I've been pretty happy with, but the holes it leaves are sometimes too big. I've done a lot of trim around the house (still have more to go), and am thinking about getting a 23-gauge pin nailer. DeWalt makes one that does up to 2" long nails (think nailing through the trim, then ⅝" of drywall to get to the stud), but am wondering about the holding power of those headless nails. Any thoughts out there? Should I just keep the 18-gauge and wax-color matching or try out the 23-gauge pin for applications closer to eye-level?

 

[Packard]

I have a 23 gage.  Not working for several years with no plans to repair it.

My experience is that anything longer than an inch has the nail following the grain with no telling where it will exit (even into your finger which was well out of the trajectory.

I used it for my picture framing business but the nails did not reliably travel where planned. I ended up buying about 100 micro drill bits and pre-drilled and used a brad push setter. More reliable. 

I still have the brad push setter.  I couldn’t tind the micro drill bits the last time I looked.  They are only necessary for hardwoods.  For soft woods I could push the brads all the way.

Note with the 23 gage gun, the push bar was a horizontal piece and I had to fill those dents anyway. So the 18 gage made more sense.

Before buying the 23 gage check to see the size and depth of dent it makes in the surface.

 

[rjboch]

Simple answer = no (do not use a 23g pin nail for standard residential trim).

Depending on materials and what you are attaching, continue to smartly use the 18g. From my experience, 23g pin nail is great to hold thin material while glue sets up, building jigs, or for wood to wood attachment using thin material (e.g., picture frames, thin decorative trim, attaching thin solid wood edge banding, etc.). A 23g pin nail does not have the strength for what you are proposing.

As for reliability and use. In regards to 18g and 23g nailers, I use ones from GREX. They work flawlessly when matched with a proper compressor and proper placement when nailing (e.g., no issues with blow out of nail/pin). 

Hopefully my 2-cents helps.

 

[semenza]

They are great for some things. Will hold very small trim pieces that don't have any tension. And work well in conjunction with glue. I really like having a pinner and use it often But for 23ga will not hold anything bigger by itself.

Seth

 

[woodbutcherbower]

The standard brad size for UK trim is 16ga with a flat, disappearing rectangular head - with the most common size being 38mm (an inch and a half). Material such as baseboards or other trim fixed on with these (even into soft drywall) gives a very solid fixing which really has to be levered to get it off, but it's also standard practise over here to use a few blobs of grab adhesive or silicone as an additional supplement. It's then usually the responsibility of the painter to fill the tiny holes and sand flat before painting, although I usually do this myself using 2-pack filler which sets in 15 minutes. The same product is also available over here in a huge range of colour shades which exactly match a large variety of timber types and are virtually invisible. I also believe (rightly or wrongly) that any misdirection or inaccuracy in the nail placement is often down to accidental user error, or it not being shot into the material fast enough and therefore deflecting, but that's just my opinion based on maybe 10,000 nail shots per year without incident. My personal weapon of choice is a Paslode IM65A gas nailer. Wonderful machine.

I'd also echo the comments of other contributors, and suggest you stay with your 18ga.

 

[Packard]

For those not familiar with a brad pusher, this video will help.  I would ignore the practice of cutting your own brads.  I keep small brads in stock in various sizes, and especially very small ones about 1/2” long. 

My favorite application is to use it for aligning trim to be glued.  I push in about half way the small brads in the glue area of the stock.  I use end nippers to cut off the head of the brad leaving about 1/8” proud of the surface.  That little bit will be very sharp.  I then apply the glue and then press the molding in place.  Once you press the molding onto the sharp protruding end, it will not slide out of position.  I use enough to assure accurate placement of the molding.  Once pressed in place I use masking tape to hold it in place while the glue dries.  No holes to putty.  I use this method frequently, especially if the piece does not get painted.  For most painted pieces, I will fill the holes made with my 18 gage nailer.  But for stained pieces, I don’t want any holes at all.

The brad pusher and end nippers solve that problem.

 

[thudchkr]

I picked up a 21 GA nailer that has been become my de facto choice for most tasks. It shoots both headless fasteners and brads.  Much less noticeable hole than an 18 GA even when shooting brads. I still use a 23 GA as well, but usually on outside miters of moldings, (typically with glue), and as mentioned earlier for holding glued items together and creating jigs. I’ll second the Grex pinners, I have one that will shoot up to 2” pins.  My 21 GA is made by Cadex, and works just as well as the Grex. The 21 GA fasteners can occasionally deflect, but much more rarely than the 23 GA pins. I can’t even remember the last time I had one of them exit the side of the wood.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Same as thudchkr, I use a 21ga combo nailer, though I have never shot headed nails with it. I generally use it for bigger things and where glue is involved. I also use it as a temporary tacker on things that I know I am going to take back apart. The pieces will pull apart easier, without damage, and the nails themselves will pull out too. I find that 23ga pins don't pull out of the substrate very well. I have a special pair of pliers that are designed to pull nails. They pull the 21ga very well, not so much with the 23ga, they break when pulled.
I do have an 18ga too, but don't use it nearly as often. I don't even own anything bigger than that.

 

[fraz]

As mentioned, the 18ga is the ticket for residential trim.  I have a great little Hitachi 23ga pin nailer and it's only used for light-duty trim.  Only thing I used it for in residential stuff was framing some valances to hide the blind mechanism above windows.  Was great for that because it was paint ready right away.

 

[Sparktrician]

My experience is that anything longer than an inch has the nail following the grain with no telling where it will exit (even into your finger which was well out of the trajectory).

Concur, but I'd add the word "anticipated" before "trajectory".  Don't ask how I know...  [mad]

 

[smorgasbord]

Thanks all, seems unanimous - you saved me some money and trouble.

 

[smorgasbord]

OK, so what about splitting the difference and adding a 21-gauge nailer to by 18-gauge?
Like this one from Senco:https://www.senco.com/senco-tool/2-21-gauge-pinner/

The 21-gauge offers more holding power than a 23-gauge tool and leaves a smaller hole than an 18-gauge brad nailer, creating the perfect middle ground between the two.

Grex makes one, Cadex also. Anyone else?

 

[Peter Kelly]

Omer has a few different 21 gauge models.https://www.chicagostaplewarehouse.com/collections/omer

I've got 16 and 18 gauge Omer brad nailers, like them a lot.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=77266]smorgasbord[/member] The one I have is Cadex. It came in a Systainer, just like the Festool equipment. The insert is not as good though. It looks similar, but it doesn't hold onto the hex keys as well as it should. There are grooves for the supplied tools, but they just sit there, no snap it place, so they will move. There is a space inside for a box of nails, but none come with the tool.
I have used mine for nearly 3 years, in a commercial shop, and it has been fine. I just recently had to get a new box of 1 3/16" pins, meaning that it has shot more than 10k nails

 

[WillB]

I have every gauge nailer...
The 23g really is great for small trim, flat panels being glued together, faster than clamps and u can nail in center...alter the angles of the nail for holding power.  When buying a 23g nailer, not all shoot long pins, so be sure to check if you need longer pins, such as 1" trim, longer pins are better.

21g nailer I use for larger trim, or heavy duty panel glue ups, like Baltic Birch, they really are the ideal mix of tiny head and holding strength.  Agreed with others, not for residential trim in general, but there is always some applications where its ideal.  I have the Grex 21g, surprisingly, its the only Grex i have had problems with. 

Agreed with previous poster about pin deflection, which can alter its path... it happens to me very rarely.  I always try to shoot the pin into the meaty area to prevent this...the angle of attack matters as well, go direct into the grain vs. on the side of the grain.  But sometimes based on grain, u just have to experiment.  KEEP FINGERS FAR AWAY as those pins can shoot through in odd places.

 

[Michael Kellough]

All (I think?) pins and brads have chisel points. Shoot with the gun parallel to the grain and the pin is very likely to be deflected by the grain. Rotate the gun 90 degrees and deflection is less likely.

 

[woodferret]

Rotate the gun 90 degrees and deflection is less likely.

First time I saw trimmers do that (on verticals) I was wondering if they were all gangsters...

 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

All (I think?) pins and brads have chisel points. Shoot with the gun parallel to the grain and the pin is very likely to be deflected by the grain. Rotate the gun 90 degrees and deflection is less likely.

Yes, that definitely helps, but those things can still do crazy things. I have seen them do a 180 almost immediately and come right back out at you. Very hard wood is especially hard to shoot into, with bamboo ply being one of the worst.
You can nail a piece of bamboo ply to a piece of ordinary ply IF you do it from the regular ply side. You can nail into the bamboo as the second piece, but not from the surface. That stuff will crumple up an 18ga brad and think nothing of it, the thinner ones don't stand a chance.