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wrightwoodwork
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If you can go to your local dealer and get a package deal also say you would prefer lr32 and want to swap the rail for the standard rail. Having a full length rail to rip sheets is nice but is perfectly possible to use the standard 1400 rail and when you get to half way holding the saw plunged slide the rail to the end. It's obviously not as quick. You can get the longer rail when funds are there once you get a saw and rails you won't regret it. Clamps can be handy but there not essential as for as I'm concerned if you push the saw nice and smooth it's not going to move about I just watch the end mark and push the saw nice and smoothly don't watch where the saw is watch where you want the saw to go
GhostFist
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First, a Domino isn't required for case construction, it's just another method of doing it. Second, a track saw is great for site work, difficult cuts and confined spaces, but is not as fast as a table saw for repetitive cuts. So my question would be, what benefits/upgrades are you expecting from these tools?
On the Domino ...... I am willing to bet that the DF500 will do all that you want. Unless when you say "big things" you mean really BIG.
So that is likely a little smaller bite into the budget.
Personally I prefer not joining rails but it can certainly be done with accuracy. You could go with the 55" rail (LR32 or not) and get a 75" rail. Join them for long cuts. If you still want a one piece long rail add it later. The 55" , 75" rails will still be desirable even if you get a longer one later.
You will absolutely love the track saw for sheet goods. Especially with all the plywood cutting you have planned. You will not be just breaking down the plywood, you will be getting finished cuts. Saving all the hassle of either a two step process or struggling to run the plywood through your table saw.
Seth
So that is likely a little smaller bite into the budget.
Personally I prefer not joining rails but it can certainly be done with accuracy. You could go with the 55" rail (LR32 or not) and get a 75" rail. Join them for long cuts. If you still want a one piece long rail add it later. The 55" , 75" rails will still be desirable even if you get a longer one later.
You will absolutely love the track saw for sheet goods. Especially with all the plywood cutting you have planned. You will not be just breaking down the plywood, you will be getting finished cuts. Saving all the hassle of either a two step process or struggling to run the plywood through your table saw.
Seth
stvrowe
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My suggestion is to rank all the frustrating things about the way you currently work. Then gear your purchases to resolve those issues starting with the most frustrating first and then continuing down the list. You may not be able to resolve all of these items based on your budget but you will get the most annoying pieces fixed and enjoy the hobby more.
On one thing there should be no doubt, the costs for premium tools will eventually rise and if you wait long enough, today's prices will seem like a bargain.
On one thing there should be no doubt, the costs for premium tools will eventually rise and if you wait long enough, today's prices will seem like a bargain.
Birdhunter
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The Festool stuff is very expensive, but is exceptionally good.
I highly recommend the TS55, the 55" rail, and the Domino 500. I think those items combined with a solid table saw is the perfect combination for plywood work. The TS55 and Domino both need a good vac. The Festool vacs are very good.
As a serious hobby woodworker, I've built a lot of cabinets and bookcases using the above combination.
If you get the Domino, you will be well advised to buy a Domiplate. It perfectly centers dominos for either 1/2 or 3/4 plywood. In my early enthusiasm, I bought several other Domino aftermarket attachments. Never use them, only the Domiplate.
I highly recommend the TS55, the 55" rail, and the Domino 500. I think those items combined with a solid table saw is the perfect combination for plywood work. The TS55 and Domino both need a good vac. The Festool vacs are very good.
As a serious hobby woodworker, I've built a lot of cabinets and bookcases using the above combination.
If you get the Domino, you will be well advised to buy a Domiplate. It perfectly centers dominos for either 1/2 or 3/4 plywood. In my early enthusiasm, I bought several other Domino aftermarket attachments. Never use them, only the Domiplate.
Two 55" are long enough for the eight foot cut. But you will appreciate having more than 55" for the 48" cuts. And the 75" rail is much handier than a long one for cuts that are in between. Having the three sizes works out very well. And getting the two to start with will do the long rips until you decide if you really want a one piece long rail.
Seth
Seth
Are you making the dados with the table saw or a router?
Realistically, $1000 is the entry point for a track saw. You really need to get a rail for both 4' and 8' cuts. I would not recommend joining the smaller rails. You also need clamps. That will run close to a $1000. You can mimic parallel guides with story sticks.
I would suggest concentrating on just one tool at first, like the track saw with the rails, and get everything you need for that. I am not sure, but I think all of those components qualify for the 30 day return policy. So, spend the ~$1000, use it for a few days, and if you'd rather have the $1000 back, then return it. At this point, don't even worry about the other tools you may want. Just concentrate on evaluating one tool at a time within the 30 day window.
Realistically, $1000 is the entry point for a track saw. You really need to get a rail for both 4' and 8' cuts. I would not recommend joining the smaller rails. You also need clamps. That will run close to a $1000. You can mimic parallel guides with story sticks.
I would suggest concentrating on just one tool at first, like the track saw with the rails, and get everything you need for that. I am not sure, but I think all of those components qualify for the 30 day return policy. So, spend the ~$1000, use it for a few days, and if you'd rather have the $1000 back, then return it. At this point, don't even worry about the other tools you may want. Just concentrate on evaluating one tool at a time within the 30 day window.
Regarding the return policy. The 30 day policy applies to tools, not accessories or consumables. Extra rails are not tools. Now of course this is the Festool policy. Dealers may have differing (more lenient) policies.
Peter
Peter
I'll echo what amt stated about the price. I think it's unrealistic to budget based on the msrp of the tool alone. Typically I'll double the cost to account for consumables and accessories to make the most of the tool. In some cases it's more, in others it's less, but at least that gets me in the ballpark of something more realistic for budgeting purposes.
Very wise to try and sort out all costs, also add the rail clamps, hose guide, and possibly a parallel guide (either festool or seneca or homebrew). Also consider extra blades and dust extraction will be needed on the domino to clear out the waste and very good to have with the TS, maybe you have that covered already but not mentioned, if not then account for a vac also. As a DIY guy I can understand the hesitations based on cost, the economics on it for me is about saving money DIY and the payoff takes longer, but my results are better and I have new capabilities as well. RO90 is the Festool I use the most, a DIYers dream multi purpose sander. Next is the Fein Multimaster, its saved me more times than I remember.
Re the tracksaw guide rails the connectors suck rocks IMO so I went with the 118" rail, can cut corner to corner diagonal on a 4x8 sheet, the no excuses rail for long plywood cuts.
Only you can decide if the tools are worth the cost for you, again very wise to try and sort out what its going to all cost, the accessory costs can quickly mount.
Re the tracksaw guide rails the connectors suck rocks IMO so I went with the 118" rail, can cut corner to corner diagonal on a 4x8 sheet, the no excuses rail for long plywood cuts.
Only you can decide if the tools are worth the cost for you, again very wise to try and sort out what its going to all cost, the accessory costs can quickly mount.
MahalaHomecraft
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I have accumulated a pretty large festool collection, and I love all of them to varying degrees, but the tracksaw and vac are the only ones I would call "indispensable". If you get one you won't regret it. I have a makita track saw, and it's nice, but the festool is nicer for sure. The reason I got the makita was because I found it for $250 on Craigslist, and I was able to find 2 makita rails for $90 for the set. At prices like that, I think the makita was unbeatably the smart buy, but if you can't find prices like that (and believe me, you can't), unless you're saving $200 or more I'd stick with the festool. I now only use my table saw for small stuff like extension jambs.
As far as joinery goes, depending on your specific needs you might want to look into the kreg system. It's cheaper than anything else and makes for much faster joinery. As long as you're in a situation where most of your work only needs "one good side," it can handle the majority of your needs.
As far as joinery goes, depending on your specific needs you might want to look into the kreg system. It's cheaper than anything else and makes for much faster joinery. As long as you're in a situation where most of your work only needs "one good side," it can handle the majority of your needs.
Guilliaume woodworks
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Not sure if their still available ,but what about the reconditioned/used festools. I heard quite a bit of good feedback on fog by folks who purchased reconditioned at a significant discount. You'd still have to buy accessories at regular price. I think Makita guide rails work with T55 ,and are less expensive. I'm not 100% sure on that, just to clarify.
Don't worry about the longer rail for now. Long rails are a real pain to move around, store and transport. It's like falling off a log joining two shorter rails and probably a more versatile solution. Checking they are straight every now and then isn't a problem and you will get perfectly matched cuts over a full 8ft sheet.
As other people have said do consider good dust extraction if you haven't already. Using Festools without is is fairly pointless, dust free working is one of the greatest joys of owning the tools.
As other people have said do consider good dust extraction if you haven't already. Using Festools without is is fairly pointless, dust free working is one of the greatest joys of owning the tools.
I would have a look at your local Craigslist/eBay/other auction site and see if there are any hobby used TS55's around. The old TS55 EBQ that was replaced by the 55REBQ is just as capable for cutting ply as the new one. The major differences are that the blade housing is thinner in the new one so you can cut closer to a wall for parquet trimming and the depth dial has now two readouts for on track (+5mm) and off-track. So neither will affect cutting sheet goods down.
I fully agree that getting a 'holy rail' is a no-brainer just to keep your options open for a possible LR-32 in the future if you are going to build alot of cupboards/shelves that would benefit from 32mm spaced system holes & hinges. Otherwise you're faced with a 100€+ rail purchase in addition to the LR-32 kit later on.
Get a vac to use with any Festools and especially the Domino - it'll clog if used without dust collection. I like my CT26, but your need may be different. Many prefer the smaller sized Midi vacs - the suction is identical across the line - the main difference is bag size and the frequency of needing to empty/change the bag.
The DF500 will build your kitchen cabinets and even a bed frame without much problem whereas the DF700 doesn't do small enough dowels for cabinet making (unless you then invest in the third-party cutter adapters). You can stack dominoes for added glue surface and rigidity with the smaller domino just fine. I've built storage boxes for my backyard with my DF500 out of 2x4 that easily withstand a 130kg man standing on them with just two stacked 10mm sipo-dominoes at each butt-joint.
I fully agree that getting a 'holy rail' is a no-brainer just to keep your options open for a possible LR-32 in the future if you are going to build alot of cupboards/shelves that would benefit from 32mm spaced system holes & hinges. Otherwise you're faced with a 100€+ rail purchase in addition to the LR-32 kit later on.
Get a vac to use with any Festools and especially the Domino - it'll clog if used without dust collection. I like my CT26, but your need may be different. Many prefer the smaller sized Midi vacs - the suction is identical across the line - the main difference is bag size and the frequency of needing to empty/change the bag.
The DF500 will build your kitchen cabinets and even a bed frame without much problem whereas the DF700 doesn't do small enough dowels for cabinet making (unless you then invest in the third-party cutter adapters). You can stack dominoes for added glue surface and rigidity with the smaller domino just fine. I've built storage boxes for my backyard with my DF500 out of 2x4 that easily withstand a 130kg man standing on them with just two stacked 10mm sipo-dominoes at each butt-joint.
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My vote is to go for the TS75, but I MIGHT be biased, (Check my signature below)
Also note that I have both the 55" and 95" Holy Rails. They seemed like the ideal combination for me with the TS75. Ask me in a couple of months if I still like my decision?
And where the heck do you live that you will be using the TS outside? I just checked my weather station and it's om;y -21 now that the sun has come up!
Also note that I have both the 55" and 95" Holy Rails. They seemed like the ideal combination for me with the TS75. Ask me in a couple of months if I still like my decision?
And where the heck do you live that you will be using the TS outside? I just checked my weather station and it's om;y -21 now that the sun has come up!
'TS' could be table saw or track saw.
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I am not so sure I would say the rail connectors don't work? I know there a re plenty of members that use them with great success. Personally I just find connecting rails to be a nuisance.
If you are doing primarily sheet goods and 5/4 or less solid wood then the TS55 should be plenty to do the job. Especially since you have a table saw also. If you can get the 75" rail in place of the 55" when you buy the saw then go that way. You will definitely want / need the 75" rail for 5' x 5'.
If you have a nearby dealer as opposed to ordering, go check out the tools. OR maybe someone here on FOG is close and can help by letting you check out the tools. With all the decisions to be made when buying multiple tools maybe just concentrating on the saw first would be an easier way to move forward.
Remember that Festool gives you 30 days to try and then return tools for a refund. And Festool / Festool dealers will honor that guarantee.
Seth
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I am not so sure I would say the rail connectors don't work? I know there a re plenty of members that use them with great success. Personally I just find connecting rails to be a nuisance.
If you are doing primarily sheet goods and 5/4 or less solid wood then the TS55 should be plenty to do the job. Especially since you have a table saw also. If you can get the 75" rail in place of the 55" when you buy the saw then go that way. You will definitely want / need the 75" rail for 5' x 5'.
If you have a nearby dealer as opposed to ordering, go check out the tools. OR maybe someone here on FOG is close and can help by letting you check out the tools. With all the decisions to be made when buying multiple tools maybe just concentrating on the saw first would be an easier way to move forward.
Remember that Festool gives you 30 days to try and then return tools for a refund. And Festool / Festool dealers will honor that guarantee.
Seth
Wooden Skye
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I was in a similar position as you when trying to decide if it was worth it. After I took a cabinet class at Woodcraft that was done entirely with Festool, it made my decision easier (still use the cabinet I made). Maybe this is something you can do if a Woodcraft is nearby and has a similar class. When I bought my TS55, I purchased the second 55" rail. I have never had an issue with connecting the 2 rails together. I recently bought the Betterly connector ($99) and I like it better than using the level I was using, but both methods work. I did buy the 75" rail, because my dealer had a demo model on sale and was to good to pass up. Would the long rail be better probably, but storing it would be more of an issue.
I wasn't sure if I would ever use the LR32 setup, so the holy rail upgrade wasn't a thought. Knowing what I know now, I would make that upgrade. Eventually I did buy the LR32 with the short holy rail from a FOG member, and if I ever decide on getting a longer holy rail, I would by the 96".
As for the dust extraction. I originally used my ridgid shop vac and it worked. However since I had to turn it on manually, sometimes I wouldn't remember or I am just making 1 or 2 cuts so I don't need it. Eventually I did buy the CT26 and the fact the vac turns on when the saw is started up is so much nicer and more effective. The 10% savings would have been nice, would have probably paid for the clamps.
The investment was large, but one I don't regret. My shop is tiny and eventhough I do have a table saw that I use for certain things, being able to breakdown sheet goods by myself is a major benefit. Not having to spend as much time cleaning up is a bonus.
Good luck with what you decide and even though this is a Festool sponsered/run forum, I think the members here will give it to you straight.
Bryan
I wasn't sure if I would ever use the LR32 setup, so the holy rail upgrade wasn't a thought. Knowing what I know now, I would make that upgrade. Eventually I did buy the LR32 with the short holy rail from a FOG member, and if I ever decide on getting a longer holy rail, I would by the 96".
As for the dust extraction. I originally used my ridgid shop vac and it worked. However since I had to turn it on manually, sometimes I wouldn't remember or I am just making 1 or 2 cuts so I don't need it. Eventually I did buy the CT26 and the fact the vac turns on when the saw is started up is so much nicer and more effective. The 10% savings would have been nice, would have probably paid for the clamps.
The investment was large, but one I don't regret. My shop is tiny and eventhough I do have a table saw that I use for certain things, being able to breakdown sheet goods by myself is a major benefit. Not having to spend as much time cleaning up is a bonus.
Good luck with what you decide and even though this is a Festool sponsered/run forum, I think the members here will give it to you straight.
Bryan
Cochese said:
Maybe, with more lock screws also. The main issue is to not over-tighten the screws and dimple the rail, but then it tends to slip a little unless you're really careful in how you hold it. Also the ends of the rails are not guaranteed square to the length of the rail so you end up with a gap when connecting two rails, can't just butt them together, tighten and go. This has been my experience with my rails and connectors, some other folks have been fine, YMMV. I read here a while back that Seneca may be coming out with an alternative but haven't heard anything more since.
Cochese]I don't have a Festool DE and don't have any plans to get one at this time. It might be a future purchase said:
Here in the Sacramento region we're hitting highs in the 60s all this week
