45 degree angle cuts

[Packard]

I’ve had my Festool track saw for about 3 years now but all I have ever done is cuts with the blade set at 90 degrees.

I now want to make a cabinet with mitered corners.  I could simply make 90 degree cuts and then bring it to the table saw to make the miter trims.  But if it is no more difficult to make 45 degree angle cuts with the track saw, then that would be preferable. 

Is there anything I have to watch out for?

I will be making  16” x 16” blanks, mitered at two opposite edges to be joined with about a 6” x 16” piece on both sides.  This will be wall mounted and used as an night stand.  There will be two; one on either side of the bed.

I have a 32” and two 55” tracks.  For this, I would probably use the 32” unless there is some reason not to.

I have two TSO squaring arms with parallel guides also.

Any tips or cautions would be appreciated.

I’ve done this type of joint many times.  I usually cut to the exact size first with the table saw blades set at 90 degrees.  Then I use a sacrificial fence and cut off the miters. 

But I am planning on a couple of very wide low cabinets (72” wide x 16” deep).  Trying to make the miters like I have been on a piece that long would be very challenging and I would likely fail.  I would need a sliding table saw to do that easily.  (Or the track saw.)

So the night tables are sort of a trial balloon—for the learning curve.

Any tips would be appreciated.

Packard

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Practice it on some scrap first. There is a bit of a learning curve to it.
You need to be clamped firmly, but be very aware to not distort the track while clamping.
Have enough track on both sides of the cut. You need to be fully plunged before making contact and be sure to follow through fully. I like to have a hand on the base plate as I go.

 

[Lincoln]

I prefer a thick kerf blade in general, but in particular when cutting bevels/mitres.

 

[Packard]

Thanks for the replies.

The cuts will be 16”, just like the larger cabinet.  The pieces will be easier to handle because they are small.

If I had to make the angle cuts on the table saw, I would change the design.  The only reason this seems possible is because I have the track saw.

I should be able to try this later this week or the beginning of next week.

 

[nclemmons]

I’d set up so you can clamp the track to the wood on each end. The saw at 45 degrees will have a tendency to tilt off the rail so secure the rail and concentrate on a consistent down force on the saw to the track as you cut through the pieces. 

Check your angles.  Better to have an angle tight at the corner so you can hide any potential gaps from a cut less than 45 degrees. 

Think about cleanup.  I made a sanding block with a 45 piece attached to it and adhesive sandpaper on the angle so I could clean up any saw marks consistently after cutting.  That might be a consideration for you if your mitered corners will be exposed.  In my case, I did waterfall cuts across pieces to make a consistent grain pattern across the top and down the two sides as well as relief 45 degree cuts on the front edges for a mid-century look.

I assume you are using dominoes on the angles.  Just make sure that you sand them enough so that clamping the case up gives you freedom to easily pull the pieces together.  I also place painters tape on the inside of each 45 to capture any squeeze out and then wipe it down before the glue is fully dry.

You might even consider ripping longer pieces at 45 first and then crosscut so you get more consistent cuts. 

 

[Michael Kellough]

A lot of good points above. I second especially Neil’s suggestion to make the bevel cut first, bigger than the finished piece, and make the easier cuts referenced from the critical edge.

If you’ve already cut the stock down to 16” you should tape some scraps to both fore and aft edges of the piece and use a longer rail to make the cut so that you get more comfortable with the way you hold the saw before the blade gets to the real piece and the saws is past the piece before you have to start thinking of coming to a stop.

When joining two mitered pieces such that clamping is not possible I use the tape method. But first each miter gets a few swipes with 80 grit abrasive down the middle to remove a little wood so the little bit of pressure the stretched tape provides is concentrated on the edges.

 

[festoller]

I found this video a while ago. It's for beams, but very helpful for long angle cuts in general.

 

[mino]

I found this video a while ago. It's for beams, but very helpful for long angle cuts in general.

That is one GREAT video!

OT:
I will probably never understand is why someone destroy that perfectly nice flat ceiling with fake beams ... and then even have them made from perfectly dried and straight oak, so there is no doubt these are fake from the first look. But hey, I guess that is why us Central Europeans will never understand the British-American culture prerogatives. And vice versa.

Over here, when someone wants fake beams for the atmosphere, they would put some some raw construction timber up there and put a non-straight fake wooden ceiling between them. Very specifically done soe the beams and celing are not perfectly straight as that just looks obviously fake, losing the desired ambience. Real load-bearing beams are never perfect in their surface ... and never straight. But hey, if one likes it.

 

[woodwise]

The video doesn't show for me... Probably computer or browser related but could someone add a direct link?

 

[peter halle]

Missing video

 

[Birdhunter]

"But if it is no more difficult to make 45 degree angle cuts with the track saw, then that would be preferable."

There are countless posts on this site citing difficulties making angled bevels using a track saw.

I often break down lumber and plywood using the track saw and do finish cuts on a really big, stable, precision table saw. I get repeatable precision results every time.

I know there are highly skilled people who can make repeated furniture grade bevel cuts with a track saw, but many people cannot.

 

[ChuckM]

+1 on Birdhunter's remark about making fine furniture with a tracksaw. Every furniture maker -- hobbyist or full-time -- I personally know uses a track saw (if they have one, most don't) to break down sheet goods or rough lumber, not to build furniture pieces.

 

[Packard]

I use a system from an article I read in Fine Woodworking where I cut the piece to the finished size first and then remove the miter waste as a second operation.  But I am planning on making a 16” deep by 72” wide cabinet with the miters on the 16” side.  I would have a lot of difficulty making that trim cut on my table saw. 

The alternative is to use a router bit designed for this purpose, a $50.00 purchase and one that would be likely rarely used.  I will try the miter cuts on the smaller pieces and see how it goes.

 

[ChuckM]

If the miters are the short ends, the track saw can handle them for sure.

 

[Packard]

The miters would be on the short end.  If it were on the long side, it would be an easy job on the table saw.

But on the short side, I would need a larger sled, and I would have to move my table saw as I only have about 5 feet of clearance on the side of the fence. 

I make these cuts on my driveway, so I am waiting for a day with no rain.  It looks like Thursday or Friday. 

I may still go with the router bit if this does not work out well. 

 

[mino]

+1 on Birdhunter's remark about making fine furniture with a tracksaw. Every furniture maker -- hobbyist or full-time -- I personally know uses a track saw (if they have one, most don't) to break down sheet goods or rough lumber, not to build furniture pieces.

Then I would advise all those people to just skip Festool, the FS/2 rails system, and most of the TSO pieces this forum is all on.
/s

Paying for the Festool TS series, and more so the FS/2 system accessories, is IMO an uttter waste if one relegates them as "rough cut" tools.

As for the 45-degree bevels, it is perfectly possible to make them with the TS55.
For big pieces, I would argue it is even easier than handling those big pieces on a TS. Vice versa, for small pieces it is definitely easier and also potentialy more accurate to handle them on a (good) table saw. Same for long wide pieces => TS55, very narrow pieces => tables saw.

Now, I am anything but a pro.
Just an IT guy, fiddling with furniture stuff because there are very few (good) cabinetmakers around here (historical reasons).

But about half a year into owning my TSC55, I already figured Makita rails are junk for accuracy and was seeing

 

[ChuckM]

+1 on Birdhunter's remark about making fine furniture with a tracksaw. Every furniture maker -- hobbyist or full-time -- I personally know uses a track saw (if they have one, most don't) to break down sheet goods or rough lumber, not to build furniture pieces.

Then I would advise all those people to just skip Festool, the FS/2 rails system, and most of the TSO pieces this forum is all on.
/s
Snip.

They do. Most furniture shops I've visited don't have any track saws, especially the older folks'. Two months ago, I went this shop (the guy built not only the shop, but also his house in the 80s) on a huge acreage:

[attachimg=1]

Almost without exceptions, table saws (sliders in minority) are what they use.

He stores his lumber...below ground under his shop!

[attachimg=2]

 

[mino]

They do. Most furniture shops I've visited don't have any track saws, especially the older folks'. Two months ago, I went this shop (the guy built not only the shop, but also his house in the 80s) on a huge acreage:
...

And that is absolutely understandable. Actually even optimal, as they already have the tools and the workflow built-up for what they need to do.
Accurate tracksaws were not really a thing just 20 yrs ago. heck, outside the Festool and Maffel "islands", they were not a thing 5 years ago. It is all too easy forgetting that the TSO parallel guides are just a couple years old and the only reasonable tracksaw, besides Festool, were pretty much the Makitas. And that is just 5 yrs, ago (!).

In the same way, many pros who do WW for some time still do not use dust extraction with hand power tools. Yet it does not make using dust extraction on hand tools a bad idea.

Just this week we had a Miss come do some stuff in our community shop. She was doing furniture restorations 10 yrs ago, so was pretty well versed overall, way more than me .. Except, what I completely missed, she had no clue one can work dust-free with wood. So, she did not use any dust extraction when sanding all day ... the whole place was covered in micro-dust, including the computers, 3D printers, you name it. She literally did not consider the possibility, so just completely ignored the vacs and went ahead just wearing a respirator. In one day worth of work, she generated about 2-3 manweeks of cleanup effort. Duh. But it does not means she is a bad craftsman. The stuff she was repairing turned out wonderful.

My point was:
When one has /or intends to/ invest in the Festool saw and rails kit, telling to not use it for what it was purchased for is kinda disingenuous.

Instead, one should be either pointed to not buy it, if strictly wants to just do rough work or should be advised on how to properly use it to actually make it work the way it is suppossed to. Buying expensive precise kit, only to then not take advantage of the precision which is 50% the price, is just not a good strategy.

On topic:
Getting perfect angle cuts from a Festool tracksaw on the FS/2 does require a bit more technique than with a table saw. Or, to be more precise, it required *different* skills to get the results. These are different tools, after all.

But, is it possible ? Definitely!
Is it the better choice? Depends!

Depends heavily on other variables which can skew the optimal solution either way, or even a third way.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
On topic:
Getting perfect angle cuts from a Festool tracksaw on the FS/2 does require a bit more technique than with a table saw. Snip.

I think this is exactly the point that Birdhunter is driving at in his post, which I happen to agree with. A skilled and seasoned track saw user can operate it like an extension of her/his arm and do wonderful things. Things begin to look complicated (enter all kinds of track saw accessories and hacks) when an average track saw owner tries to do things that the track saw is not equipped to do well.

 

[Birdhunter]

A few months ago, I completed a dresser that had a top about 5 feet by 30” all quarter sawn white oak. I thought about using a 45 degree joint top to sides as my “client” didn’t want the top to over hang the sides. I knew the chances of getting perfect bevels was slim so I backed off the idea. Ended up with a 1/8” overhang. The “client” loved the look.