4mm Domino and 1/2 drawer construction

[carlbs]

In the materials on the net surrounding the introduction of the 4mm domino it was stated that you could use the 4mm to construct drawers from 1/2 inch stock.  Does anyone have any experience with this?  If so how strong are the drawers?  Do you need to buy the new base support bracket for $22 in order to make drawers?  Are there any instructions?

I would like to construct a number of drawers for shop cabinets and the domino sounds like an easy quick way to do so.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Carl Schellenberg

 

[Brice Burrell]

Carl, I don't have the 4 mm cutter or tenons but I think they would work well in this application. I'm pretty sure you don't need the new support bracket. I've always like Patrick's thread for Domidrawers, just change the dimensions to work with 1/2" ply. DomiDrawers Revisited.

 

[tbellemare]

Carl:

I haven't tried it either but I have my Domino in hand.

I don't think the new support bracket changes your ability to make Domino joints in 1/2" material. If you have the classic Domino, you should have the old bracket and it should work fine.

The only thing I've found that isn't obvious is that to get the shoe to go low enough to center on material that is thinner than 16 mm, you have to pull the slider back past 16 mm... The one on the left that automatically centers you in discrete increments of material thickness.

Tom

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Last fall when I updated the Domino manual to account for the new fence design, the 4mm tenons had not yet been developed, so I unfortunately did not include them in the most recent release. However, the same basic concept had already been covered from the very beginning, just without the specific tenons and cutter.

The only information that is out of date in my manual is the depth of cut settings for the smaller 4mm cutter. The remainder of the procedures remain the same. The 4mm cutter is shorter than the standard cutters, so you no longer need to use the PVC tube trick that I explain in the manual.

Yes, the joints will be very strong, and the weakest link in the chain is going to be your drawer-side material, not the Domino tenon. The only joint (that immediately comes to mind) that would be stronger would be a dovetail joint, and even that might be weaker if the drawer-side substrate is prone to lateral delamination.

If you are using a solid wood drawer box, then a dovetail or blind dovetail will be the strongest joint, but it is going to take longer to create. For other materials, the Domino joint is probably going to be stronger.

 

[Tezzer]

They are only good for small drawers. Not sure how many have seen the little 4mm Dominos, but they are TINY  5mm are perfect for drawers.

And my tip is to make your own (square edge)  contrasting timber Dominos and scribe a line on them (2mm under the thickness of the plunge) and round the corners with a chisle leaving the top 2mm square and crisp. Then when you insert the Dominos (must clamp your drawer side to prevent splitting) tap the Dominos in and the last 2mm that is still square will lightly cut into the round mortise and give the appearance its a rectangular through mortise. Below is a lay out of one of my small drawers (with one of my Domi handles ;D )

 

[fshanno]

They are only good for small drawers. Not sure how many have seen the little 4mm Dominos, but they are TINY  5mm are perfect for drawers.

And my tip is to make your own (square edge)  contrasting timber Dominos and scribe a line on them (2mm under the thickness of the plunge) and round the corners with a chisle leaving the top 2mm square and crisp. Then when you insert the Dominos (must clamp your drawer side to prevent splitting) tap the Dominos in and the last 2mm that is still square will lightly cut into the round mortise and give the appearance its a rectangular through mortise. Below is a lay out of one of my small drawers (with one of my Domi handles ;D )

Is there any kind of glide or is it just fitted?

I assume you rabbet the front first then clamp the sides in place and plunge through sides and front together.  Is that the case?

 

[Tezzer]

Fsh, if i make them with "hidden" Domis i glue up all in one go, but to get the through mortise look its so much easier to glue up, then cut the mortises and insert the Dominos. And no glide, i love nice fitting wood on wood drawers

 

[fshanno]

Fsh, if i make them with "hidden" Domis i glue up all in one go, but to get the through mortise look its so much easier to glue up, then cut the mortises and insert the Dominos. And no glide, i love nice fitting wood on wood drawers

That's what I thought about the glide.  Ball bearings are not something we look for in fine furniture.  I'm afraid if that piece were mine I'd have to leave that drawer empty.....  and open.

Say I'm making drawers for a kitchen (where ball bearings are acceptable) and it's going to be frameless full overlay with applied drawer fronts.  The drawer sides will be that plywood they sell for drawers.  I would rabbet the front and back the full width of the material, assemble and glue the drawer, no mechanical fasteners.  Let it dry then domi front and back (full extension glides so I want the front and back to look the same).  Then apply home made dominoes made with the same species as the drawer front.  Does that make sense? 

Do you think it would be faster than machine cut half blind dovetails? 

What about the domino length?  With the classic domi drawers I've seen you cut the excess off at the band saw.  I'd like to find a way to not have to do that.  I don't know about doing that much sanding or hand planing on plywood, that face veneer is pretty thin.

 

[Brice Burrell]

What about the domino length?  With the classic domi drawers I've seen you cut the excess off at the band saw.  I'd like to find a way to not have to do that.  I don't know about doing that much sanding or hand planing on plywood, that face veneer is pretty thin.

Since you'd likely be making your own tenons out of the wood of your choice you can cut them to any length needed to set them flush. A light sanding should be enough to finish it up. 

 

[fshanno]

What about cutting a store bought Domino prior to fitting.  Is there a productive and safe way to do that?  Does a store bought domino look ok in this application given that it has the ridges and impressions on it?

 

[Brice Burrell]

What about cutting a store bought Domino prior to fitting.  Is there a productive and safe way to do that?  Does a store bought domino look ok in this application given that it has the ridges and impressions on it?

Regular Domino tenons look fine, they tend to be a tight fit so you don't really see the ridges or impressions. Cutting them safely, well I'd make a jig to gang cut them either on the table saw or miter saw. 

 

[cdconey]

They are only good for small drawers. Not sure how many have seen the little 4mm Dominos, but they are TINY  5mm are perfect for drawers.

And my tip is to make your own (square edge)  contrasting timber Dominos and scribe a line on them (2mm under the thickness of the plunge) and round the corners with a chisle leaving the top 2mm square and crisp. Then when you insert the Dominos (must clamp your drawer side to prevent splitting) tap the Dominos in and the last 2mm that is still square will lightly cut into the round mortise and give the appearance its a rectangular through mortise. Below is a lay out of one of my small drawers (with one of my Domi handles ;D )

I have seen the 4mm dominos, and I think they will work fine for 1/2" stock or 12mm stock drawer sides.  If you were to go to 5/8" (16mm) stock, then I would jump up to the 5mm domino. 

 

[cdconey]

What about cutting a store bought Domino prior to fitting.  Is there a productive and safe way to do that?  Does a store bought domino look ok in this application given that it has the ridges and impressions on it?

I use a block plane clamed upside down in the bench vise to modify the dominos.  Just be aware of your finger placement using this technique.

 

[fshanno]

Okay,

Here's a prototype of a domino cutting jig.

[attachimg=#1]

Particale board is not the right material.  It was scrap.  Just plunge a bunch of mortises, drill some holes and split it down the middle.  There's a counter bore so the heads of the carriage bolts are submerged.  Too many knobs and stuff above the work for the band saw.  I suppose you could do it on the router with the jig between the bit and the fence.  Now which direction is climb cutting again?

[attachimg=2]

Cut off about 3mm so these would not bottom out in a 28mm mortise.  You could tap them in so they are flush and maybe they would need nothing more than finish sanding.  How much did I spend on that Leigh jig?

The long bolts are handy because you don't need a push stick.  I reinforced it with a sort of a caul so the ones in the middle would be tight.  The final version will be UHMW with a stiffener and 4 bolts.  The knobs are overkill, a wing nut would be fine.  Just loosen it slide in the dominoes set the fence and you're done.  Lots of flying chips, don't blink.  When your done loosen and they fall out.

I'm not happy with the amount of tear out but I suppose you could bury the rough end it in the mortise.  The blade sort of hits the domino in mid air.

Hey!  Maybe I could market this?  Right, I'd sell one each to the other 3 people on the planet who might want one!  Made from scrap in 30 minutes.  Not exactly an amazing member invention, but fun to mess with anyway.  But I'm not experimenting any more until I'm ready to make drawers.

 

[woodshopdemos]

A clever jig. Re. tearout - were you using the rip blade that is installed?. Try as many toothed a blade as you can get.

 

[fshanno]

A clever jig. Re. tearout - were you using the rip blade that is installed?. Try as many toothed a blade as you can get.

Yes, it's 26 teeth or something.  I tried again (wasted a few more) moving very slowly and it helped.

But I've come up with one that's simpler and maybe better.

[attachimg=1]

Just plunge with the fence set so that one side is exposed, or plane the board afterwards.  Drill a little notch at the end so you can shove the sliced domino out (might be better to drill first).  Run it with the dominoes down  on the table and you get a very clean cut.

 

[MarkF]

I take a simpler approach with trimming protruding OEM dominoes.  A small flush cut (no set, 20tpi) Japanese pull saw, a doubled up piece of copy paper along side it to protect my work and a sanding block.  I do a light score cut on each domino 360 deg. to limit tearout.  I still get some, even with scoring (is this a quality of the Beech?).  A small Ballpeen hammer can be used to burnish the end to fill in the tearout  before sanding totally flush.

If you use ply for the drawer sides take your time making the plunge as you'll get a ragged outside edge on the through mortise...even with Baltic Birch and a sharp bit.

 

[fshanno]

On drawers that will have an applied front, is it necessary to rabbet the sides?  From an assembly standpoint.  Assuming you're going to add the dominoes after the glue dries.  Would it be practical to glue up a drawer where the sides are butted to the front and back with no mechanical fasteners? 

 

[Michael Kellough]

On drawers that will have an applied front, is it necessary to rabbet the sides?  From an assembly standpoint.  Assuming you're going to add the dominoes after the glue dries.  Would it be practical to glue up a drawer where the sides are butted to the front and back with no mechanical fasteners? 

It's nearly practical, it's expedient. In the long term it might not be practical
if you have to re-glue the joint. Which might not happen since modern glues
are very strong.

A lot of people proceed with drawer making as if they'll forget to apply glue.
That is, they design joints that will maintain some integrity even without glue.
As a bonus, the rather difficult to make joints are also attractive.

Using the Domino as a mechanical fastener and a decorative detail
is a pretty good practical compromise. Quick and easy too.

 

[RONWEN]

I built several shop cabinet drawers using 1/2" baltic birch ply using the new 4mm x 20mm Domino tenons.  The largest drawers were 24"x8"x40".  I also used pocket hole screws to secure things (no clamps) until the glue dried.  I'm very pleased with the 4mm size for 1/2" & thinner projects.

I was going to post a couple of pictures but I don't seem to understand how to do it.