A few bit size questions from a router rookie

[Sbrow]

Hi there all,

I've just purchased my first ever router, a 1010, and I'm really excited about using it. One of the bits I picked up was the 19mm trim bit (491028). This thing is enormous and I'm wondering should I have got the smaller 12.7mm trim bit or does it really make any difference? If you're just trimming, is there any benefit to the larger bit? Perhaps it'll last longer or just make bigger cuts?

Also, I see that the 1/4" bit(6mm) is oft recommended as a good bit to get started with, but I can't seem to lay my hands on one, so I picked up a 7mm (490956) instead. Now, I have some post-purchase dissonance kicking in - should I have sprung for the 5mm straight bit instead on the reasoning that you can always increase width of a cut but never decrease? Or perhaps even pick up a 3mm bit and do two cuts. I think many dowels are 6mm + 6mm is a good width for dados?

Apologies in advance if these seem foolish questions. I've never routed before and I'm trying to ensure I don't get (and keep) inappropriate bits.

Many thanks,

Stephen

 

[mouppe]

Hi Stephen, and welcome to the FOG.

I have no idea of your skill level or experience, so please don't feel insulted if I write some basic stuff about routers which you may already know.

The larger the bit diameter, the slower the router should run. Below 1", 24,000 rpm is fine. On an 1010, this equates to full speed. Around 1 1/2" it should be dialed down to 3/4 speed. Above this, most manufacturers will recommend using a router mounted in a table. The larger routers such as the Festool OF1400 and the OF2200 can handle larger bits, but require a lot of care and attention.

Since this is your first router, I would suggest you change the trim bit for a 1/4" bit. This is more than acceptable for flush trimming. I use a bit similar to the one you referred to (491028) for template routing where I need to remove a lot of material, far more than flush trimming. Freud make excellent router bits including the one you are looking for. Frankly, I think your bit is too large for flush trimming.

Make sure you run the router clockwise round the workpiece and that the router is fully up to speed before you begin cutting. Don't cut too fast (you will leave a rough cut or get tear-out) or too slow (you will leave burn marks), and don't try to take off too much with each pass. As your skills advance, you can learn to cut anti-clockwise, but this is really just for special situations.

Enjoy using the router- you can do a lot of excellent woodwork with a router. A router was one of my first tool purchases.

Richard.

 

[Sbrow]

Thanks for your response Richard,

I figured the flush trim bit was too big, I'll return it and get the smaller version. Nice to hear from people with some experience of these things. + thanks for the general router advice.

Cheers,
Stephen

 

[semenza]

Hi Stephen,

Welcome to the FOG !  [smile]

Good idea to start with a smaller bit on your first routing attempts. And for dados , take several shallow cuts  until you get a feel for things. You may find a need to vary the speed  on different woods too. If you find that it is leaving burn marks you need to either increase your feed rate a little or decrease the router speed. Decreasing the router speed is the easier option in the begining.

Also, I think Richard meant to say push the router around the outside  edge of the work piece counter clockwise for edging type operations.  Unless I take his meaning wrong clockwise will cause the router to want to pull itself ahead eradically. Richard?

Seth

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Stephen,

First, welcome to the FOG.  I'm not sure whether you're the book kind of person or prefer videos, but I'd suggest checking out further information on routers, accessories (non-brand specific) and router techniques.  I think the videos (DVD) would be better because you get to see the actual use of it and the whole process of routing something.  I know of some good videos on taunton.com (Fine Woodworking Magazine) and there are others out there (maybe some members here will post the ones they like).

Don't be afraid to ask questions, no matter how stupid you think they are.  Sure they'll always be a small handful of people who'll bust on you, but the majority will offer their help.

Good luck in your woodworking experience!

[welcome]

 

[AlexThePalex]

I agree with the rest you're better off with the 12.7 mm bit. Easier to handle and it does the same thing.

 

[mouppe]

Yes, I meant to say anti-clockwise of course!

Thanks Seth.

 

[Sparktrician]

Hi Stephen,

Welcome to the FOG !  [smile]

Good idea to start with a smaller bit on your first routing attempts. And for dados , take several shallow cuts  until you get a feel for things. You may find a need to vary the speed  on different woods too. If you find that it is leaving burn marks you need to either increase your feed rate a little or decrease the router speed. Decreasing the router speed is the easier option in the begining.

Also, I think Richard meant to say push the router around the outside  edge of the work piece counter clockwise for edging type operations.  Unless I take his meaning wrong clockwise will cause the router to want to pull itself ahead eradically. Richard?

Seth

I agree with Seth.  It's far better to make several passes with little taken at each pass than to make one pass with a huge bite only to bog down the router and risk burnout and increase the chance of a sloppy cut.  What Seth said about going clockwise is called a "climb cut" because the router bit will want to climb up the material, rather than cut into it.  This is not necessarily a bad thing in experienced hands, once you understand what it's doing and why, and in some cases, it can preclude trashing certain cuts.  Best thing is to get used to using it as intended, then branch out into other cuts.  Enjoy your router!!! 

[smile]

 

[ScotF]

Yes, I meant to say anti-clockwise of course!

Thanks Seth.

Counter-clockwise for the outside edges and clockwise for the inside edges -- the edge of the workpiece you are routing should always be on the left side of the cutter.

Scot

 

[nickao]

As far as regretting the bits you purchased, don't. And buy them all(3mm, 5mm, etc) you will need them!

 

[Sam Murdoch]

Yes, I meant to say anti-clockwise of course!

Thanks Seth.

Counter-clockwise for the outside edges and clockwise for the inside edges -- the edge of the workpiece you are routing should always be on the left side of the cutter.

Scot

Hi Stephen, Since you write "I've never routed before" I join those offering some tips that may save you great frustration (if you haven't already watched the videos.

The discussion above about how to feed the router is essential knowledge - Scot is correct. Visualizing a sheet of plywood on a bench with a square hole cut out of the middle of it. If you are to rout the outside edge of the plywood feed the router COUNTERCLOCKWISE around the  outside of the plywood sheet. If you rout the inside edge of the hole in the middle of the sheet feed the router CLOCKWISE around the edge of the hole.

Here's more. Two tricks that once learned turned me from a very timid router user to a very happy and confident router operator.

1) Never bottom out the bit to the bottom of the collet. I at first assumed that the more of the bit is held by the collet the more secure it would be - so push it in hard I thought - NOT! Now, maybe this has changed with new technology but I have never dared to try it even with my Festool router, BUT, if you bottom out the bit it will very likely vibrate loose and that is just plain terrifying. So, set the bit in as fully as you can for it to be secure, but pull it off the bottom just a tad before you tighten down. I'm sure others might choose to disagree the need, but as I wrote I have never dared to do otherwise since learning this lesson. For years I hated using the router because I never knew when the bit would wing out at me  [scared]...whoo, finally a word from a wise friend and never a problem again.

2) The beginner or DIY router operator will tend to approach a shelf edge or table top with the idea of adding a profile and they will feed the router left to right without a thought and then all of a sudden they find a whole chunk of their nice hardwood edge being torn out ahead of them  [crying]. A good way to ensure nearly tear out free routing (99% anyway, unless you are milling very gnarly wood) is that rather than starting at the beginning start at the near end of your edge. Rout 3" or 4" , step back - rout another 4" into the previously routed edge, step back rout another 4" etc., always routing into the edge that has already been profiled. Once you get to your left end simply take another long even pass from left to right over the entire profile to smooth out any misses. This may seem tedious, but lots less so than having to repair damaged edges and in case where you can't sneak up on your edge a little at a time (using bearing bits for example), the creep rout technique will save you worlds of aggravation.

OK then? 'Nuff said, I add nothing to all the comments about bit sizes  [wink] - all's been said. Have fun with your new router.

 

[nickao]

Sam I believe you are confused. If the big hand is on the 9 and it moves to the 3, the direction a clock moves, it is going left to right. Left to right is clockwise.

You are correct in cutting the outside and moving to the right, but that is counterclockwise . Just like if the big hand was on the 3 and you moved it backwards(counter clockwise) to the 9.

Your bold portion of your statement below is  incorrect:

"When I approach an outside edge to rout I know that I will feed the router to my right as I face the edge. (This means clockwise to me- the clock hand in my mind moves from noon to 2 by going to the right)".

Yes a clock moves from noon to 2 by going to the right, but it moves from left to right. SO if you move the router to the right you are moving from right to left which is counter clockwise. Up past the 3 past , past the 12, past the 9, moving against the clock direction.

The statement below is from: http://www.newwoodworker.com/rtrfeeddir.html

Hand-Held Operations

Starting in the same place every time makes going the right way easier to remember.

  I always start at the lower left corner of the piece when cutting the outside edge in the hand-held mode. The bit is spinning in a clockwise direction from my perspective so engaging the rear of the bit with the wood means the router always moves left to right and goes around the remaining sides of the piece in a counter clockwise direction.

  When routing an inside edge, like when cutting the inside edge of a frame or opening, I start at the upper left corner so the rear of the bit again engages the wood and the router moves left to right. The only difference is that when cutting the inside edge, continuing the left to right motion takes the router around the opening in a clockwise direction.

  Using the same starting point every time develops a habit that goes a long way towards preventing directional errors and the damage and danger that can create.

  The exception to this would be when there are end grain sections that are to be routed. Generally, we route the end grain segments first, and then the rest of the piece so any chipping that occurs at the end grain is removed in the final passes. I usually do the end grain first, then start at my normal position and go all the way around the piece, including a second pass over the end grain segments, so I get nice clean transitions from one side to the other.

The picture shows the outside getting cut going against the direction of a clock.

Darn you had me thinking about this, it becomes so natural one really does not think about it when in the shop, I don't and clearly it is natural for you to go the correct direction as well. A newbie will learn fast once it happens a few times. That thing about feeding in a table the wrong direction, can you say javelin throw, been there done that! The wood piece stuck in the wall !

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Sam,

I think you're suffering from clock dyslexia.  Either that or you need to find a repair shop soon, since time is going backwards for you.  [big grin]

Forget about the numbers on the clock.  Look at the direction the hands are turning and compare that to how you turn your router -- opposite the clock's rotation or with the clock's rotation.

HTH

 

[Sbrow]

Thanks everyone for the great advice and even warmer welcome!

This is a rather helpful group isn't it!

While I've never routed before, I've tried to educate myself to a certain albeit theoretical extent - reading up online and in mags + I got this very helpful book years ago which initially stoked my interest  - 'Woodworking with the Router' - Hylton and Matlack. My focus right now is to pick up the bits I was planning on getting over the next year immediately as I hear the 8mm bits are being discontinued. I was a bit rushed in buying them for fear of having a router and no 8mm bits to use (I keep hearing about how nasty 1/4" bits are compared to their larger brethren). Right now I have the following:

Straight : 1/2", 3/4" ,  and  the  7mm ~1/4"ish- which I think I'll return and get the 5mm since I believe this is a more common shelf pin-hole size.

Roundover: 1/8", 1/4" , 3/8" , 1/2"    - I'm debating about the 3/8" one - whether it's worth keeping. The other 3 are all keepers for sure.

Edge Trim 19mm - I'll return this and get the 12.7mm version

Core Box 1/2"  -  I was hoping to be able to use this in lieu of a 1/4" CMT Bowl & Tray Bit - for hollowing out a tray.

Chamfer 45 degree

------------------------------------------------------------
The only other bits I'm considering are:

490952 - 3mm straight 

491057 - slot cutter 3mm  - It strikes me that this might be very useful for edge joining, or bookshelf backing board or Tenon's or Bridle Joints or possibly biscuit joints if they make circular biscuits?  I'm having a hard time figuring out the difference between the various options sizes though.  Looking at a 2009 Festool catalogue p.104 the cutting area (NL/B) is 6mm for all which as I understand it is the height of the cut, diameter is 40mm for all but the length ranges from 1.5mm to 5mm. I'd love to know what this length means, as I'm trying to decide which bit is most appropriate. The only thing I can think of is the depth of the cut, but if the diameter is the same for all this wouldn't really make sense? Which one would you guys recommend for the uses I've described?

Cheers,
Stephen

ps: Go Ireland in the Rugby World Cup on Sunday!

 

[ccarrolladams]

My suggestion is to hold onto the 1/4" bit.

Although the smaller 5mm hole is standard for European shelf pins, the fact is here in the USA retail stores are far more likely to stock 1/4" pins.

Festool makes two different 5mm pin hole drills. Cat 491 066 has a brad point and is used most of the time since normally we want shelf pin holes to have a flat bottom. Cat 491 064 has a spear point so that when you do need the holes to go all the way through the wood this is the one you use. An example is making closet organizers where shelves are supported on each side of a single upright.

The 35mm bit is for drilling hinge cup holes. The less frequently used 20mm bit is for the cup holes of other brands of hinges. The 8mm bit is for "construction" holes in the LR32 system. An insert goes into those holes to allow adjustment of hardware.

The Festool centering mandrel has an 8mm shank as do these Festool bits for the LR32 system. Unfortunately Festool does not make a 1/4" bit with an 8mm shank. Way back when, before I had accounts with wholesale suppliers of 5mm shelf pins, I had to find a way of changing from the 8mm to 1/4" collet in my OF1010 after it was centered without changing the centering. At least it was a good incentive for me to become best friends with dealers in European cabinet hardware!

 

[ccarrolladams]

Also,

Festool does provide End User Training Classes at both USA HQ in Lebanon, IN and in Henderson, NV.

Everyone should take the Introduction to Festool class. People also benefit from Advance Router Class. Watch for announcements of future classes. Then act fast because some classes are filled within an hour of the announcement.

 

[Sam Murdoch]

Dovetail & Ken, I have modified my original post and deleted my response to Dovetail. The discussion about my perception of how time flies and how that relates to router feed was too distracting and so completely defeated the intent of my post to Stephen, which was to be helpful. I attempted to be entertaining as I acknowledged my own mental gyrations in coming to terms with the clockwise/counterclockwise metaphor, but succeeded only in creating more confusion [sad]. I think, all in all, the correct way to feed a router into the work has been made abundantly clear. Mission accomplished [smile].

 

[mouppe]

You may be better off buying a router bit set that contains a variety of basic bits.

I found that after you have the basic bits, it tends to be the more specialised bits that are useful, such as a rail and stile pair, a panel raising bit that fits the profile you are looking for, cove bits with the desired radius, etc.

I wouldn't go crazy buying a bunch of straight bits. And if you get one straight bit only, consider a down-spiral bit. Awesome and they leave a very clean edge.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Dovetail & Ken, I have modified my original post and deleted my response to Dovetail. The discussion about my perception of how time flies and how that relates to router feed was too distracting and so completely defeated the intent of my post to Stephen, which was to be helpful. I attempted to be entertaining as I acknowledged my own mental gyrations in coming to terms with the clockwise/counterclockwise metaphor, but succeeded only in creating more confusion [sad]. I think, all in all, the correct way to feed a router into the work has been made abundantly clear. Mission accomplished [smile].

No worries Sam.  May I suggest a good digital watch? Takes a  [tongue] in' and keeps on tickin'.

 

[fdengel]

Sam,

I think you're suffering from clock dyslexia.  Either that or you need to find a repair shop soon, since time is going backwards for you.  [big grin]

Forget about the numbers on the clock.  Look at the direction the hands are turning and compare that to how you turn your router -- opposite the clock's rotation or with the clock's rotation.

HTH

Imagine looking down on that piece of plywood from above: when moving to the right along the bottom of the piece, you're going counter-clockwise.  When moving to the right along the top of the "hole", you're going clockwise.

From that perspective, Sam is correct.

Do the rest of you actually sit underneath the workpiece when routing?