A warning to dealers..

[Michael Kellough]

I'd be switching to FedEx ground in a heartbeat...

I think Fed Ex has had that option for years. At least they used too...

 

[rvieceli]

Yup... FedEx has it too. FedEx Delivery Manager

 

[Bob Marino]

  Just another comment - and I have plenty, believe me.  My concern is that MY CHOICE has now been made into a tool which enables a bad guy to steal with impunity. I say that as a dealer who has had some XL's stolen recently using MY CHOICE.

Bob

 

[lawhoo]

It's not customer-friendly if it leads to theft.  For most, it turns out to be either an irrelevant or a customer-hostile "service".  I realize that there are the rare customers, like Jack, who actively use this option, but it seems (at least anecdotally) that it's used more to redirect packages from the people who pay to the ones who steal, leaving the paying customer and the dealer as victims.

 

[gkaiseril]

UPS and I believe FedEx on the delivery attempt notice allow for a change of address but it also needs to be signed by the customer. Granted this is not much of deterrent but if the driver scans or keeps the notice it is some documentation.

Another way to use this would to only allow changes in address to a UPS or FedEx store or distribution site where the recipient needs to not only sign for the package but also show a photo ID.

For large dollar purchases I either have them shipped for pickup at a local store or to work.

 

[Claimdude]

Brice,

As a customer I am still of the opinion it is outstanding service. If I were a dealer probably not so much. The gotcha for me in this is the lack of information up front about the limitations (rightly so) for some dealers. Now I know a simple call to Bob or Sean would get the redirect done but frankly wouldn't have thought of that prior to today AND that when I buy from them in the future I will need to contact then directly for package redirect. Information is KING!

Thank you guys for all you do!!

Jack

.......Full disclosure up front before order is placed and/or exempting established customers from the restriction is a much better solution in my view. The UPS Choice program is outstanding service in my opinion.

Jack

Well, you are now aware of the glaring shortcoming of this program, do you still really think this it is outstanding?

 

[Ivanhoe]

Great info here! I used the re-direct function with FedEx recently when I had some expensive tools being delivered that had to have
a signature upon receipt. (Package was delayed, and no one would have been home at the new time) I  had it re-directed to a local FedEx
center, not another residential address. It was very convenient and I assume somewhat safer for the dealer and customer as I still needed to provide I.D.
to pick up the packages.  

I do see the dealer's point of view on this and thanks to the info here, now know I can call the dealer and get the redirect completed. Up until
now I didn't know that route was possible.

Rod

 

[wrightwoodwork]

To me what is wrong with having good neighbors if I'm not going to be in any of the neighbour's will take the package in. It might be old fashioned but works. It's always handy to have someone that you can trust to collect things

 

[jimmylittle]

There is always potential for abuse, but I don't think new ideas should be stifled because we're afraid of a few bad apples.

I travel for work (construction producer for home makeover TV), and there have been many a time when I needed to change the delivery address, sometimes even the delivery state!  It's a convenience for customers.

I don't think the dealers have too much to worry about, since you need a tracking number and a UPS login account to make the change.  If a thief has that information, they probably have a bunch of other info about you, too.  It's probably on par with the UPS guy leaving a package in front of your garage door and a thief wandering by and picking it up.

 

[johninthecamper]

I'd be switching to FedEx ground in a heartbeat...

fedex ground has taken 12 bus days,with 3 to go,for my pkg to go thirty frigging miles.
calender day to calender day,im looking at is over three weeks,add four days to pack and ship in the begining.
totals almost a month

 

[Bob Marino]

There is always potential for abuse, but I don't think new ideas should be stifled because we're afraid of a few bad apples.

I travel for work (construction producer for home makeover TV), and there have been many a time when I needed to change the delivery address, sometimes even the delivery state!  It's a convenience for customers.

I don't think the dealers have too much to worry about, since you need a tracking number and a UPS login account to make the change.  If a thief has that information, they probably have a bunch of other info about you, too.  It's probably on par with the UPS guy leaving a package in front of your garage door and a thief wandering by and picking it up.

In this case, not so, the thieves use their own email address, not the card holders. So tracking comes immediately to the thief. From there, they redirect to an address more suitable to where they can either have it delivered to a friend or be close by and simply wait for the package to arrive. If you know the usual UPS delivery times for that street it's easy pickings.

B

 

[K119Phil]

Ouch.. multiple XLs stolen.... sorry for your loss Bob [crying]

I think I'll poke the elephant in the room with a thousand dollar cattle prod -- and of course I can only speak for K-119, but when an item gets stolen, it's a total loss for us.  UPS doesn't pay.  Whistling the State Farm tune doesn't make a guy appear out of thin air to make things right.  (I've tried)

K-119 is an old school retail store from the 70s.  I guess people back then had less sticky fingers, but as the new guy at the store trying to bring things online, this is definitely the very slippery slope I am still learning to navigate, and the very reason why I have yet to launch K-119's online store -- I'm terrified of the potential for fraud.

We do keep a log of serial numbers for all tools leaving the store, and report to manufacture on stolen items.  I vaguely recall that we may have recovered a stolen OF1400 when it made its way back to Festool for repair. 

But yea, shipping cost and fraud prevention are the two areas that apparently even the best (Bob and Sean) still struggle with :-\

 

[iamnothim]

I've done this with FedEx a couple times when I've had a couple missed delivery attempt tags on my door.
However the only option is to redirect to a FedEx store.

It's a great option and helps when I'm not going to be home.

The cost benefit of the UPS redirect service is way out of whack.

 

[jimmylittle]

In this case, not so, the thieves use their own email address, not the card holders

B

That is a crazy loophole for UPS to leave in the system!  It seems that if you want the option of changing shipping, you should need to be a registered UPS customer and all correspondence goes through the registered email address that is anonymous to the public.  The email and tracking number should match before UPS changes anything! 

It takes more effort to change a Craigslist posting, which does require verification of email and does provide anonymous email forwarding so the public can't see your real email, which is usually your login.

I had no idea it was that open wide.  That being said, I still do like and use the option.  It should require more verification, though.

 

[copcarcollector]

Bob (or Sean or Phil), this is more of a retailers question - with the fraudulent orders received, was there an AVS match on the credit card? It would seem that if there was a match, you should have a little more evidence on your side when that dreaded chargeback comes through. Just curious.

For those not in the know, AVS is an Address Verification used when processing credit cards, it matches the address and zip code provided on the order against your billing information. Its supposed to be one more level of security, especially for the retailer. Some retailers / processing systems will not finalize an order with an AVS mismatch.

 

[Bob Marino]

Bob (or Sean or Phil), this is more of a retailers question - with the fraudulent orders received, was there an AVS match on the credit card? It would seem that if there was a match, you should have a little more evidence on your side when that dreaded chargeback comes through. Just curious.

For those not in the know, AVS is an Address Verification used when processing credit cards, it matches the address and zip code provided on the order against your billing information. Its supposed to be one more level of security, especially for the retailer. Some retailers / processing systems will not finalize an order with an AVS mismatch.

Yes, their sure is AVS verification.  You can't place an order on my site without it.

Bob

 

[nickao]

For me there are options, a retailer does not have to use all or any of the checks. I use  3, some use none, some use more.

I use the (AVS)address, zip and 3 numbers on back of card, if ALL 3 don't pass then the buyer gets a message to try again.. I could also use phone number(to match card used on billing) if I wanted. BUT, my processor gives me the option to use ZERO checks, it's all up to me. XXX sites are required to use all checks, they have different rules for different businesses, at least my processor does.

I also have the option to ONLY ship to the address of the buyers card or the transaction gets denied, I don't use that option as many of my items go to job sites not the owners address.

 

[pyleg]

 I would urge dealers here - and elsewhere, who use UPS, to ensure that they the shipper be notified if a package is being redirected or better yet, to not allow MY CHOICE as an option for their packages.

 Bob

I don't suppose it should influence your business decision, but I once had a circumstance where such a service would have been useful.  A high-end tool company had a problem with its internal database and had shipped an order to an old address I'd since changed on their website.  By the time I discovered this, it was the night before delivery, the company was closed for the night and no amount of begging UPS would get them to let me change the no signature delivery from my old address.  I ended up having to go to my old apartment and collect it from the street-facing stoop.  I potentially saved the company several hundred dollars but it was stressful. 

 

[Tinker]

From my standpoint if a dealer elects to prohibit address changes and that is not made very obvious to me at time of purchase and it is a circumstance where address change is needed I would be a VERY unhappy customer and would likely never purchase from that dealer again. As dealers you are also painfully aware that 1 unhappy customer will tell 7 to 9 other people. Depending on my travel schedule if notified at time of purchase could not be used I would simply purchase elsewhere.

I share this because you guys (Bob and Sean) are outstanding dealers and think you should be aware that your reactions to one problem (depending on how many UPS Choice members purchase from you) might cause unintended consequences. 

Thanks for all you do!
  Jack

In all fairness, if you take that 'tude, it should work both ways.  If you suspect you might chose to make an address change, you should let the dealer know in advance of your own possible intentions. If you plan on further dealings, perhaps giving out a list of the possible addresses you know you might use would be of help. (I am not in the retail business, nor do I have any such intentions, but I can see their problems as presented with this conversation)

These dealers are sending dozens of orders out every day.  Every time they send an order, they are taking a risk, maybe even all of the risk.  A couple of misdirected $1000 items in a week could really mess up a man's day.
Tinker

 

[copcarcollector]

I ship with or without AVS verification, but I am not selling $1K Dominos, still it's a risk. I just asked my Fedex rep to turn off customer initiated redirects though. Honestly I had never considered this until this topic---

And you US based dealers may be "lucky" in a way, I ship worldwide, which opens up a whole new set of issues about delivery, damage, chargebacks---- fun!