About The Tool Contests

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
I'm pleased to announce the start of a  monthly tool contest, beginning in May 2008.

Before the first one begins, I want to have a few days for members to discuss and comment on the basic structure of the contests.  Below is a description of all the elements of the contest.  Please read it over and tell me what you think.

Basic Idea
This is meant to be a friendly competition.  Lots of members have submitted great ideas to the forum.  This contest adds a new dimension to the forum and lets members have a little more fun doing it.

Every month, there will be one winner, with a different tool as a prize each time.  The goal here is to promote creative uses of our tools and show how much can be done when you use your imagination.  The contest can also help other members learn new ways to use their tools for great projects.

Entering the Contest
There is no official "entry" requirement.  It's simple: anything posted in the "Member Projects" section, or the "Jigs, Inventions, Tool Enhancements" section is automatically eligible for the contest.  There is no deadline on projects.  Thet can be submitted any time.  As long as that project has not won before, it is always eligible to win.

Remember, the contest is about great projects, but it's also about great descriptions of great projects!  Winning posts will have these elements:

• Text documenting the step-by-step process used to achieve the results.
• Photos illustrating various stages of the project, not just the final results.
• Explanation of how your tools were part of this project.

Contest Rules
Just a few simple rules:

• The project must involve at least one Festool tool.  The way you used Festool tools must be described in your post.
• The posting must contain a text description, and at least one project photo.
• The contest is open only to FOG members from Canada and the USA.
• The following members cannot enter: Festool employees, Festool Dealers, FOG administrator, Festool contractors, or anyone whose account is not in good standing (e.g.,  banned or restricted members).

Choosing Winners
Winners are chosen by judges and by members of the FOG community.  The judges vary from month to month.

Each month, members can discuss their favorite projects, and why those are their favorites.  The point is to offer your views about what makes a great project, and also what makes a great forum post about a project.

The judge(s) will take into consideration everything members are saying, then, at the end of the month, announce a winner.

Note: If you do not wish to enter the contest, simply state this when your project is mentioned as a potential candidate.

What Do You Win?
Each month, the prize will be different.  The prize will be announced on the first day of each new month.

Stay in touch,
Matthew

 

[nickao]

I like it Mathew and the prize is nice.

But how about an additional smaller prize for a random drawing.

The way you have it seems unfair to me in some ways. Guys that do this for a living and people who are retired who MAY have more time on their hands and people with 100,000.00 of tools and unlimited access to material may have an advantage the way you have it set up.

Plus voting? I will find it hard to choose one persons hard work over another's. This is going to create massive threads about the unfairness someone has over another or whether the project was picked because the person is liked on the forum or not liked.

If Festoeringtool had the best project by far he would still lose. This can turn into a popularity contest.  In addition some of the most difficult things to pull off with finesse can be lost on a lot of people that are not pros. I see items being picked for many reasons. Is this for skill, utilitarian use, design, beauty, simplicity, best use of a Festool, etc. Or is the winner the one that has the best "how to" which is totally subjective and a cause for disagreement right there. ? If someone does something unsafe, but the final project rocks should they win? There is a lot to consider if the contest is not a random type drawing.

I like the idea of a project, but how about a random drawing for everyone who submits a project. It will be Impossible to hurt anyones feelings or create anger or frustration that way.

I think I will exclude myself out of fairness to others that do not have a shop set up like mine or a shop at all. I would not exclude myself if it were a random type drawing for project participants.

I sure would hate to compete against Jerry on this forum.

Nickao

 

[Matthew Schenker]

nickao,
Thanks for responding.  Let's see what other have to say.  I'm sure that over the next few days, we can come to a general consensus on this.
Matthew

 

[nickao]

You are welcome I am going to have to tweak my post a little, but the idea is there. I think  this will be a nice long thread.

Nickao

 

[joraft]

I like the idea of a project, but how about a random drawing for everyone who submits a project. It will be Impossible to hurt anyone's feelings or create anger or frustration that way.

Nick, some schools no longer give letter grades because they don't want the poorer students' feelings to be hurt. Some of the younger kid's sports teams no longer keep score so that the poorer players won't become frustrated. Well, I say welcome to the real world, some people can just do things better than others. And being rewarded for excellence is far more gratifying than having your name pulled out of a hat. 

From what I see in this forum, just about everybody here is a better woodworker than I am, even though I've been hacking away at it for nearly thirty years. Losing to any of them wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. And just think how great I'm going to feel if I happen to beat one of you guys some month. And I'm sure it won't be because I'm so popular! 

Now, I'm going out today and buy $100,000 worth of materials and start building a house using only my Festools. And if I can get it done by May I'll have a good chance of winning that MFK700.

John

 

[nickao]

"welcome to the real world" has nothing to do with creating a friendly forum environment.

I am here for anyone participating to help in any way I can. Not to out do them in any way. And a competition  is "out doing", by definition. I have enough on my plate I am not adding competing on this forum. If I wanted to do that I would compete against my peers in my trade, which I have done in the past. I am just not going to do it here. That's me, do what you want.

I will vote if that is the consensus for how this should be done though. Oh and good luck competing against the likes of Jerry or some of the others, anyone can be hit by lightning I guess 

And one more thing. Voting excludes way to many beginners. There should at the least be different tiers of competition. Even the patriots don't play the local high school. That's what you are proposing.

Nickao

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Thanks Matthew!

Great idea.

Here's my two cents worth on the random drawing vs. woodworking competition debate...  If you truly meant that you are looking for "creative" uses of Festool, I don't think that would be that much of a handicap for beginners.  A lot of us old timers are doing things the way we were taught decades ago and wouldn't think of changing our methods.  Some of the best ideas come from newcomers.  If, however, you are looking for big, complex projects perfectly executed, then that's different.

I also like the idea of a big prize for someone who comes up with a great idea for using the tools, along with a few t-shirts or something like that for 'honorable mentions'.

I've had a couple of jigs in the back of my head for a while now, might see if I could get them to work and maybe win that router! ;D

 

[nickao]

If you truly meant that you are looking for "creative" uses of Festool, I don't think that would be that much of a handicap for beginners.

Who says that is how people will vote, that is one of my points.

People will vote for whatever reason they want. Now if there were judges well known in the field to judge the best application of a Festool, I would buy that. Look at American Idol some of the best people get kicked off and some of the worst stay, voting by people on  the forum for one specific criteria is not going to happen.

Nickao

 

[jonny round boy]

Contest Rules
Just a few simple rules:

• The contest is open only to members from Canada and the USA.

That's disappointing to hear, but TBH it's understandable - I appreciate that it's a prize from Festool USA, so they can't be shipping stuff everywhere! :'(

I do think that Nickao has some valid points, but since I can't enter I'll keep out of the discussion about how the competitions are run.

 

[nickao]

Okay I just walked in my shop. I have been working on a jig in development for the use of Festools. Should I now hold back and not show it because of this contest. I was going to post and have people jump in and help improve it.

Knowing there is a tool on the line for ideas like this now I do not wan to share and may not put out the ideas for a few months until it is perfect.

In two months while I am secretly working away tons of people could be working on the idea, using the idea, and expanding upon it.

Is this the type of thinking we want to promote on this forum? That's what a competitive contest is going to do.

Oops forgot, I excluded myself for any competition. So I will share with all.

Nickao

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Contest Rules
Just a few simple rules:

• The contest is open only to members from Canada and the USA.

That's disappointing to hear, but TBH it's understandable - I appreciate that it's a prize from Festool USA, so they can't be shipping stuff everywhere! :'(

My feelings exactly. It would be nice if overseas members could join in, but shipping costs would be a major fly in the ointment, not to mention the voltage of the tools.

I do think that Nickao has some valid points, but since I can't enter I'll keep out of the discussion about how the competitions are run.

Fair point. On the other hand, since we aren't eligible to enter, then perhaps our opinions would be more unbiased than some of those of who are eligible to enter! 

Forrest

 

[joraft]

And a competition  is "out doing", by definition. I have enough on my plate I am not adding competing on this forum.

Nick, I don't think participation is mandatory, so there's no pressure there. And by my way of thinking ANY type of contest would be a competition, whether it is won by skill or by having your name drawn. There must be a winner and a whole bunch of losers. But they don't have to be sore losers.

Oh and good luck competing against the likes of Jerry or some of the others, anyone can be hit by lightning I guess 

My thinking exactly, if they all should happen to be struck by lightning, I might be able to win.  

John

 

[nickao]

Boy on the last three issues I have been in the minority. Oh well.

I think my other post is more important than my first. It's regarding stifling creativity, a random drawing is  not going to make one keep an idea to themselves, a competition would and will. Random is not competition where the majority votes. No one votes. It is luck.

Any comments on the stifling of creativity, regarding my post in this thread on: Today at 02:51 PM?

Nickao

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Contest Rules
Just a few simple rules:

• The contest is open only to members from Canada and the USA.

That's disappointing to hear, but TBH it's understandable - I appreciate that it's a prize from Festool USA, so they can't be shipping stuff everywhere! :'(

jonny,
I understand your response!  For a long time, I've been trying to get more international support for this forum from worldwide Festool branches.  Festool USA has been the only Festool branch to get involved in this forum, either by providing information or tools for contests.  However, if the international poll numbers from this forum are any indication, about 20% of our membership comes from places outside the US and Canada.  That's a significant number.

My advice to those of you outside the US and Canada: e-mail your local Festool branches, and tell them you want them to get involved.  That might cause something to happen.

Matthew

 

[nickao]

Mathew what is the exact reason the out of country guys can not compete? I doubt it has anything due to shipping.

I would like to see some of these guys projects!

Nickao

 

[Matthew Schenker]

I think my other post is more important than my first. It's regarding stifling creativity, a random drawing is  not going to make one keep an idea to themselves, a competition would and will. Random is not competition where the majority votes. No one votes. It is luck.

Any comments on the stifling of creativity, regarding my post in this thread on: Today at 02:51 PM?

I've thought about your posts, and I have to admit, I'm not sure I understand how a friendly competition among supportive members would make people keep their ideas to themselves.  Likewise, I don't see how pushing people to use tools for something interesting and new is going to stifle creativity.

In my mind, a random competition would stifle creativity.  It sends this message: "Winning has nothing to do with your imagination.  It's just luck."

This is a community of people who like each other and are interested in learning from each other.  The contest is meant to operate in that atmosphere.  The whole idea of this forum is to be different.

Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Mathew what is the exact reason the out of country guys can not compete? I doubt it has anything due to shipping.

I would like to see some of these guys projects!

There is an incompatability between products made in Canada and the USA and those made in Europe and Australia (or other places).
We can still see the projects of our non-North American friends -- they just can't win the competition!
Matthew

 

[nickao]

Maybe I should have said a sense of sharing ideas then. You are to good a person to really think that is how everyone thinks. Some people are going to do what it takes to get that prize.

You do not think that someone may hold back an idea to use  the following month? Or hold back an idea to work on until it was perfect rather than putting out  right away. I definitely think it will happen.

This is your forum and I go with the whatever you decide. But I think what I am saying rings true.

Everyone is not a great person who will  share their ideas. I have worked in the field long enough that if anything, guys keep their secrets to themselves. That is reality. And I just did not want to see that trickle into this forum as far as the Festools. Trade secrets are entirely different.

Heck, guys were voting to increase Festools cost on the basis that they did not want other people getting their hands on them or to compete against them. That is all through that thread and confirms what I am saying about the nature of many people.

Anything I say while participating here is out of the goodness of my heart I hope you take it in that spirit. If not I am wasting a whole lot of time typing.

Nickao

 

[Matthew Schenker]

I like it Mathew and the prize is nice.

But how about an additional smaller prize for a random drawing.

This is a possibility.  I don't think I can get two MFK 700 routers!  But perhaps something like a Festool watch for second place?  I know the contrast is striking, but maybe this would work?

The way you have it seems unfair to me in some ways. Guys that do this for a living and people who are retired who MAY have more time on their hands and people with 100,000.00 of tools and unlimited access to material may have an advantage the way you have it set up.

I'm not so sure about that.  I actually think it evens out.  Professionals may have more tools, but I've seen amazing projects from non-professionals.  Also, the number of tools is not really the point.  I really think it comes down to imagination.

Plus voting? I will find it hard to choose one persons hard work over another's. This is going to create massive threads about the unfairness someone has over another or whether the project was picked because the person is liked on the forum or not liked.

If Festoeringtool had the best project by far he would still lose. This can turn into a popularity contest.  In addition some of the most difficult things to pull off with finesse can be lost on a lot of people that are not pros. I see items being picked for many reasons. Is this for skill, utilitarian use, design, beauty, simplicity, best use of a Festool, etc. Or is the winner the one that has the best "how to" which is totally subjective and a cause for disagreement right there. ? If someone does something unsafe, but the final project rocks should they win? There is a lot to consider if the contest is not a random type drawing.

I don't think Festeringtool will be entering the contest, as he is banned for life.  Beyond him, I don't think anyone here is inherently more popular to the point where he could sway votes enough to win if someone else's project is really great.  As far as what elements go into winning, I will leave that up to the voters each month.  Looking at the projects that are entered, they can decide whether a project deserves to win because of design, beauty, simplicity, best use of the tools, or something else.  I'm going to limit it to projects at first (it may expand into how-tos and jigs later).  Beyond that, members can discuss, debate, and vote.

I sure would hate to compete against Jerry on this forum.

Who knows!

Matthew

 

[Forrest Anderson]

I like the idea of a project, but how about a random drawing for everyone who submits a project. It will be Impossible to hurt anyones feelings or create anger or frustration that way.

Oh, I'm sure someone will be along shortly, ranting and SHOUTING about how the idea sucks, and tearing the idea apart by writing screeds and screeds...  :

If I were to pick a hole with the idea of random drawing, it would be that someone who submitted an item that had been knocked up in 30 minutes and looked as though it would fall apart as soon as you sneezed, could easily win the competition     That's not a very good advert for Festool, and the company might well be rather wary about handing out very expensive prizes for what is basically a raffle.

Also members who had spent days or weeks on a well-designed project, built it of the finest materials, and polished it to a dazzling shine, would not be particularly pleased if a pile of junk won the competition!

Forrest (who, being in the UK, can't win anything and therefore has no axe to grind one way or the other)