About The Tool Contests

[Frank Pellow]

I don't understand the new rule Matthew...

Your last list of projects eligible for this months contest included two of mine.  They should now both be removed from the list.

I do feel that the projects for the FOG contest should be original to this forum.  Don't you think? 

No, I don't think that it is a good restriction.  If someone uses Festool tools on a project and describes how they (and other)  tools were used, why should it matter which forum the project was first posted on? 

Why would yours have to be removed?

Because I posted both projects to the Canadian Woodworking forum before I posted them to this one.

 

[Dan Clermont]

I don't understand the new rule Matthew...

Your last list of projects eligible for this months contest included two of mine.  They should now both be removed from the list.

I do feel that the projects for the FOG contest should be original to this forum.  Don't you think? 

No, I don't think that it is a good restriction.  If someone uses Festool tools on a project and describes how they (and other)  tools were used, why should it matter which forum the project was first posted on? 

Why would yours have to be removed?

Because I posted both projects to the Canadian Woodworking forum before I posted them to this one.

I think Frank posted his projects on the Canadian Forum way before the contest came around and he shold be allowed to enter.

Perhaps this rule should apply to all projects from this date forward?

Dan Clermont

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Frank,
The thing is, I'm walking a fine line here.  The forum needs to have special content, something to set it apart.  I've worked hard to make this something unique to the FOG, and it's  one of the goals of the contest.  On the other hand, of course, we don't want to restrict anyone from winning if he or she has a great project.

Any suggestions on how to handle that differently?

Matthew

 

[greg mann]

I don't understand the new rule Matthew...

Your last list of projects eligible for this months contest included two of mine.  They should now both be removed from the list.

I do feel that the projects for the FOG contest should be original to this forum.  Don't you think? 

No, I don't think that it is a good restriction.  If someone uses Festool tools on a project and describes how they (and other)  tools were used, why should it matter which forum the project was first posted on?   

Why would yours have to be removed?

Because I posted both projects to the Canadian Woodworking forum before I posted them to this one.

I think in Frank posted his projects on the Canadian Forum way before the contest came around and he shold be allowed to enter.

Perhaps this rule should apply to all projects from this date forward?

Dan Clermont

Matt,

We need to make some kind of distinction here as Dan has proposed. You have expressed an openness to older projects being brought forward for entry and I think this is good. But, at the same time, you now wish for them to be 'virgins'. That is a little tough. Frank's projects are a perfect example of how this can cause a conflict. He is being honourable by telling you that they should be withdrawn due to prior posting but, to me, this is inflicting punishment on the innocent. I am sure you don't want to do that. There needs to be some grace period, at the least, possibly a phasing in of this rule.

 

[Frank Pellow]

OK Matthew, I guess that I now understand your perspective.  But, I think the fact that you are running contests does make things unique here and I don't think you require the restriction.

By the way, I did not post information about any of my projects either here or on Canadian Woodworking with the idea of winning some contest.  I posted them, because I found them interesting and thought that others would too.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

We need to make some kind of distinction here as Dan has proposed. You have expressed an openness to older projects being brought forward for entry and I think this is good. But, at the same time, you now wish for them to be 'virgins'. That is a little tough. Frank's projects are a perfect example of how this can cause a conflict. He is being honourable by telling you that they should be withdrawn due to prior posting but, to me, this is inflicting punishment on the innocent. I am sure you don't want to do that. There needs to be some grace period, at the least, possibly a phasing in of this rule.

I've taken a look around the Internet and magazines that sponsor tool contests.  In every single case, they require something along the lines of, "The entry must not have been published elsewhere."  The reason is, publications and Web sites want to be able to say that the project originated with them.  In certain ways, the Festool Owners Group is in a similar situation.

The idea of a "grace period" is understandable.  But that adds a confusing layer of administrative oversight.

We could say that this goes into effect starting July 1, 2008.  Anything published in a Web site before that date can still be entered.  That could work.

Matthew

 

[Dan Lyke]

The project cannot be posted in another forum prior to entering the FOG contest.

Not that I expect any of my current projects to be contenders, but this removes all of my extant projects from consideration.

 

[CharlesWilson]

I think the wording should be clarified a bit.

If a project was first published on the FOG, and then published elsewhere before contests were announced here, the current wording might require it to be ineligible.

My Slide Apart/Together bookcase was first described here, and then published elsewhere before contests were announced.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

As long as it appeared here first, we're all set!  But I will edit the wording to be clearer.
Thanks!
Matthew

 

[Frank Pellow]

...
We could say that this goes into effect starting July 1, 2008.  Anything published in a Web site before that date can still be entered.  That could work.
...
Matthew

I think that this is the fair thing to do -rather than to implement a retroactive restriction.

 

[Michael Kellough]

...
We could say that this goes into effect starting July 1, 2008.  Anything published in a Web site before that date can still be entered.  That could work.
...
Matthew

I think that this is the fair thing to do -rather than to implement a retroactive restriction.

I agree.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

We could say that this goes into effect starting July 1, 2008.  Anything published in a Web site before that date can still be entered.  That could work.

All right then, let's do it that way.  I think that's fair to everyone.  Also, since this contest is decided by a panel of judges, there is always some "gray area."  For example, let's say  someone originally posted a project on another site, but then posted it here with substantial new information like photos and process descriptions.  That could constitute something new.  My real point is, I would not want people to do a simple cut-and-paste from an existing posting in another forum.

Matthew

 

[Bill Wyko]

I believe the 2 humidors were posted here before I posted them on SMC. I don't rember for sure. If anything it would have been minutes apart. I would like to say though, SMC is the reason I found out about FOG. This is the first place I've posted the Blazer too. ;D

 

[Warrior]

I feel that current or recent work has a big advantage over projects older than 6 months or so. recent work is still fresh and with current work the author has the ability to document and post in near real time which generates allot of excitement about the thread.

it would be sweet to have multiple current threads going at the same time.  8) Dueling Woodworkers 8). That would be awesome! There was only one thread last month that was a current project with progression posted just after the work was done.

All of the contestants' projects for this months contest  are old or previous work which makes this months contest a little tame. JMO

Eiji

 

[nclemmons]

Another point of view... let's think about why people come to the forum and make sure we are creating content and tips that matches a broad range of visitors - and reward members for sharing across the varied inspiration and details...

How about a category for "inspiration" and a separate category for "how-to"  Either could apply to big stuff, home improvement, small projects, etc.

Sometimes we're looking for inspiration for a project - the design or high level details of jewelry box, a chair, a mantle, entry doors, etc.

Sometimes we're looking for specific step-by-step - photos and details step by step.  They could be the same project, but could also be different projects or different members with the time, eye, and skills to pull it off.

Seems like we should encourage both of them.  Either can drive us to the workshop or job site to apply what we see.  But the work documenting step-by-step takes a lot of time.  And it will attract a certain type of participant.  Some are better photographers, writers and teachers.  Some are great at creating and then showing what they did without step-by-step.

I'm happy seeing the inspired results of work and then asking questions to get more clarity.  I'm also happy to see work that has been laid out step by step.  I subscribe to Fine Woodworking for the former.  I subscribe to Woodsmith for the latter.  Both serve their place.

As to awarding prizes - do an inspiration award one month, a how-to award the next month.  Or do a how-to every month with a range of inspirational topics also aggregated and put them to a vote every few months by the membership.

Either way, appreciate the effort to get more projects and examples of work visible.

Thanks Matthew and Festool for sponsoring the ideas - and asking for input

neil

 

[Bill Wyko]

As long as it appeared here first, we're all set!  But I will edit the wording to be clearer.
Thanks!
Matthew

Is this going to be retro active? Or will it be for projects posted after a certain date? Inquiring minds want to know. Never mind. i just got time to read al the posts. Please disregaurd previous posts. I'll be happy just to have time to turn on some of my tools. I have lots of things I want to build.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

We need to make some kind of distinction here as Dan has proposed. You have expressed an openness to older projects being brought forward for entry and I think this is good. But, at the same time, you now wish for them to be 'virgins'. That is a little tough. Frank's projects are a perfect example of how this can cause a conflict. He is being honourable by telling you that they should be withdrawn due to prior posting but, to me, this is inflicting punishment on the innocent. I am sure you don't want to do that. There needs to be some grace period, at the least, possibly a phasing in of this rule.

I've taken a look around the Internet and magazines that sponsor tool contests.  In every single case, they require something along the lines of, "The entry must not have been published elsewhere."  The reason is, publications and Web sites want to be able to say that the project originated with them.  In certain ways, the Festool Owners Group is in a similar situation.

The idea of a "grace period" is understandable.  But that adds a confusing layer of administrative oversight.

We could say that this goes into effect starting July 1, 2008.  Anything published in a Web site before that date can still be entered.  That could work.

Matthew

Matthew, are you sure of the reason behind the "not published elsewhere" requirement imposed by others?  It could be that those other routes to publication are trying to help ensure they are not violating any copyright interest.  And they may be requiring assignment or license to them of the copyright interest held by the submitter. 

Dave R.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Morning,
Just to remind everyone, we're on hiatus in March 2009 to get more feedback on the contests before we move forward.  So this is the place to post any of your thoughts about how this works, or what you'd like to see in future contests.

One note: some people have written wondering why Festool the company no longer sponsors these contests.  This was by design, and does not represent any breach between the forum and the company.

From the beginning, Christian Oltzscher and I worked out a plan to have Festool generously sponsor the first six months to help get things started.  We always planned to have  dealers and others sponsor our contests after this initial six-month period.

Thanks,
Matthew