Abrasive to remove over-spray?

[Oldwood]

Hello everyone,

We have a RO 150, a Ro90 and the ETS 150-3. We build kitchen cabinets and spray the doors and loose panels on a pedestal then move them to a drying rack. Once dry we coat the other side then move the part back to the drying rack. We get varying amounts of overspray on the back of the parts depending on the finish and spray gun being used. I have been considering trying Patin 2 or 1500 Titan 2 to remove the over-spray. Has any done this and if so any tips you could share wold be greatly appreciated. Our finishes are low gloss 20 or 25 degree gloss so we are a little concerned about changing the gloss of the part we work on. We have used brown paper balled up on occasion with some success but it seems there should be a more efficient way to do this.

TIA,
Gerry

 

[roblg3]

Have you tried a wet sponge?  If the first coat has cured hard it should be reasonably easy to wipe off.

 

[downtheroad]

Our shop uses the Platin (or Mirka Abralon) for this all the time. We usually use a worn pad if the overspray isn't too bad, 1000 or 2000 grit by hand and maybe even dampened with water and dried off with a cloth. Works great for us on the waterbased coatings that we use.

 

[Oldwood]

Rob,
The over-spray does bite in a bit so you need to abrade it off.

Tony,
You don't notice a change in sheen? Would you suggest 1000 or 2000 grit for satin finish. The stuff is a little dear and my supplier only sells in by the 10 pack so I would like to only buy one grit to start.

Thanks guys,
Gerry

 

[downtheroad]

You don't notice a change in sheen? Would you suggest 1000 or 2000 grit for satin finish. The stuff is a little dear and my supplier only sells in by the 10 pack so I would like to only buy one grit to start.

We do a lot of touch-up and service work on high-end furniture. The Platin/Abralon in 500, 1000, 2000, and 4000 is indispensible for us in removing scuffs and light scratches and producing a rubbed finish. We like using the Festool sanding blocks with them wet in a straight line to produce a very even scratch pattern on tabletops. If a high gloss is needed we go to machine polishing with compounds. The Rotex sanders work well for this.

Using worn pads (1000 - 4000) are less aggressive and can work better than the brown paper trick in many cases. With a bit of experience and experimenting with new and worn pads, wet and dry, you should be able to achieve your objective.

Try the 2000 and if you need to, you can go to 4000 or 1000.

 

[Oldwood]

Tony,
I'll pick up some discs and a Festool sanding block.

Thanks,
Gerry

 

[tjbnwi]

Place the doors flat on the work surface or make sure the area below the door is unobstructed. This will prevent the rebound that is getting on the surfaces. No rebound, nothing to remove.

Platin 2000 if you must....

Tom

 

[AlexThePalex]

I'm with Tom, best way is to prevent it getting on in the first place. Masking is also an option.

We used to spray a lot of kitchen cabinets from the furniture factory next door, but they always came with holes for the 35 mm hinges. We put a hook in those holes and then hung the doors so we could spray them on both sides in one go. 

 

[tjbnwi]

Like this.

Tom

 

[AlexThePalex]

Exactly.

And if the doors didn't come with a 35 mm hole, but another type of hinge, then we just put a long screw in one of the holes and hung it by a metal wire.

Everybody has his own way of doing things of course, but a method like the OP describes, getting overspray and then having to remove it again, would have been totally unacceptable for us.

 

[downtheroad]

We do quite a bit of onsite service work for furniture manufacturers. For example, we've been called out to a client's home because "legs on dining chairs don't feel as nice as the rest of the piece". Sometimes, a little work with a worn pad of Platin and the client is happy.

Many times, you can't spray pieces in a way to avoid all over-spray grit. Inside of cabinets and drawer boxes, for instance.

Here's an artsy sofa table and wall display unit an interior designer had custom made. We were contracted to do the finishing. Although, the top could be removed from the table, the poplar legs had to be finished assembled. The wall unit was made of solid maple and walnut with 5 mdf door/drawer fronts veneered with exotics and 3 painted uprights (2 orange and 1 red). This was made in 3 full width sections - bottom (2 shelves), middle (3 shelves), and top (last shelf and top). Again, some amount of over-spray had to be dealt with and Platin helped us to achieve our goal.

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[tiralie]

An interesting discussion.
While I agree with Tom and Alex that you should avoid over-spray, sometimes s#*t happens. I think Tony's suggestions to rectify Gerry's problem are interesting. Something I would not have thought of and will definitely try.
The only suggestion I thought of when reading this is to get some downdraft in the spray booth, but that doesn't fix the existing problem of having parts with overs spray on them.
For me, controlling over spray is about proper ventilation and the amount of air pressure at the gun. High pressure and speed of attack and lower pressure and slowing down is a balancing act. Particularly against a deadline.
Sometimes I have to turn down the pressure and slow down to avoid spending time correcting other problems. Once I spray the last coat I don't want to touch that part until I need to install it.
Yes hanging doors works, but I don't often drill holes in my doors before finishing, and you still have to solve the problem for other parts that don't have holes.

Some have said the solution to over spray is to use HVLP. I have gotten over spray using my Fuji Q4. So not adjusting the amount of air coming out of the gun is also important.
I have rested my parts on small (smaller than the part being sprayed) carpet covered turntables and that seems to reduce over spray as well. Obviously coatings get caught on the carpet and that needs to be removed but it seems to be more effective than paper or any slick surface.

Tim

 

[tiralie]

Here's an artsy sofa table...

LOL, artsy...

Here's an artsy sofa table and wall display unit an interior designer had custom made. We were contracted to do the finishing.

Thanks for posting, those pieces look fantastic.

Tim

 

[rjbeyer]

Have you tried the old fashion method of Murray oil an #000 steel wool?  Dilut Murthy oil with water 50/50 and wipe down with soft cotton rage after treatment of steel wool and murthy oil soap.  Try this method on test piece before using it across the finished piece.  Used on all pieces produced in manufacturing before shipping final products to customers.  Leaves the surface with a very smooth finish. [cool]

 

[Oldwood]

Hi,

I sure can't argue with the theory that the proper solution is to avoid the problem [tongue] I think as Tim says it is about air movement in the booth and gun settings. We don't always get over-spray but sometimes it happens and I think Tony has given us an option to remove the over-spray that is more consistent than the crumpled up paper.

Tim you said "The only suggestion I thought of when reading this is to get some downdraft in the spray booth" this has occurred to me also. We spray the parts on a pedestal with a removable turntable of varying sizes so we can always have a support that allows us to spray by the edges without getting bounce back. The pedestal is setup in front of a hood that draws the air away from the part being sprayed. When using the Kremlin AAA you can see the blow-by curling towards the outlet as it goes by the bottom of the part. I have considered blocking the hood with a piece of ply and ducting the outlet to a port on the floor that would create a straight down flow of air. This project has been on the back burner for quite some time but whenever I get over-spray on the back of doors I consider finding the time to mock it up for a trial run. 

Tony,
That sofa table looks scary in terms of stability  [eek] but the finish looks great.

Thanks everyone I appreciate your input,
Gerry

 

[downtheroad]

Have you tried the old fashion method of Murray oil an #000 steel wool?  Dilut Murthy oil with water 50/50 and wipe down with soft cotton rage after treatment of steel wool and murthy oil soap.  Try this method on test piece before using it across the finished piece.  Used on all pieces produced in manufacturing before shipping final products to customers.  Leaves the surface with a very smooth finish

Before we discovered Mirka Abralon (and now Festool Platin), we used #0000 steel wool and a product from Mohawk, Wool-Lube to hand rub lacquer finishes. We now find that Abralon/Platin gives a better, more consistent scratch pattern. Steel wool, even the good quality stuff can sometimes leave some random deeper scratches that can mess up an otherwise nice rubbing.

Thanks for posting, those pieces look fantastic.

Thanks, My buddy hated spraying those legs. Also, the designer was really picky with getting the right orange. Our supplier really had a hard time with it and I don't think he's looking forward to dealing with her in the future. She added the silver accents later which were painted with artist's brushes. In hindsight, it would have been better to have used real metal parts.

That sofa table looks scary in terms of stability  [eek] but the finish looks great.

Thanks. Yeah, the table is pretty stable and well balanced, but, it is narrow and I wouldn't want to put a really heavy item on the far end.

 

[tiralie]

The pedestal is setup in front of a hood that draws the air away from the part being sprayed. When using the Kremlin AAA you can see the blow-by curling towards the outlet as it goes by the bottom of the part.

Gerry:
It sounds like your air is flowing straight back away from the piece. Have you experimented with blocking the top half of the hood?
That line about the Kremlin AAA blow-by curls makes me laugh a bit. If anyone has problems spraying someone will always say they never have any of those problems with their Kremlin.

This project has been on the back burner for quite some time but whenever I get over-spray on the back of doors I consider finding the time to mock it up for a trial run. 

Ya, I'm with you there. I have a number of things I should be fixing/altering or have done and put off and then when I finally get to them I wonder why I was procrastinating some long.
Like cleaning and organizing, there's never any lack of problems to solve.
Tim

 

[Oldwood]

The pedestal is setup in front of a hood that draws the air away from the part being sprayed. When using the Kremlin AAA you can see the blow-by curling towards the outlet as it goes by the bottom of the part.

Gerry:
It sounds like your air is flowing straight back away from the piece. Have you experimented with blocking the top half of the hood?
That line about the Kremlin AAA blow-by curls makes me laugh a bit. If anyone has problems spraying someone will always say they never have any of those problems with their Kremlin.

Yes I did try that and could not see a significant improvement. I am thinking maybe just setting up further away from the hood might help. The spray on the Kremlin is so soft I find it is more affected by air movement. I use the Kremlin for clears and a pressure pot setup for pigmented so the best fan speed etc is not the same for the different products or guns.

This project has been on the back burner for quite some time but whenever I get over-spray on the back of doors I consider finding the time to mock it up for a trial run. 

Ya, I'm with you there. I have a number of things I should be fixing/altering or have done and put off and then when I finally get to them I wonder why I was procrastinating some long.
Like cleaning and organizing, there's never any lack of problems to solve.
Tim

Tim,

I try to knock one item off my to do list after each job is complete but the list does not get any shorter [huh]

Thanks,
Gerry

 

[Scott B.]

We are about to start a large kitchen in the shop this week, so I have been kicking around in there all morning looking at all that needs to happen first. Much cleaning and organizing to stage it up.

 

[Oldwood]

We are about to start a large kitchen in the shop this week, so I have been kicking around in there all morning looking at all that needs to happen first. Much cleaning and organizing to stage it up.

Can I come over and help [tongue] I would love to see your process. Do you hang the parts or spray one side at a time?

Thanks,
Gerry