Accuracy on Kapex

[jimbo51]

I think the problem is that an incredibly expensive saw has a brilliant bevel setting system and a same old same old of a miter setting system.

This was discussed extensively when the Kapex was introduced in the US. Festool certainly could have made a gear driven system which would be much easier to set precisely, but that would have increased the price beyond what they thought acceptable.

 

[Holmz]

I think the problem is that an incredibly expensive saw has a brilliant bevel setting system and a same old same old of a miter setting system.

This was discussed extensively when the Kapex was introduced in the US. Festool certainly could have made a gear driven system which would be much easier to set precisely, but that would have increased the price beyond what they thought acceptable.

I will not ask what that price would be.  [wink]

If they believed that it would make a better system, then it could still make some sense for them to offer it as an add on.

 

[Rob in Vancouver]

I completely agree with Jimbo and Holmz.

Thanks for posting a response.

 

[Rob in Vancouver]

So you're unhappy because the tool you bought doesn't have a feature that the manufacturer never advertised it would have? And that no other saw on the market has(except maybe for the above-mentioned Milwaukee)?

I fail to see a problem here.

Sorry your synopsis is not correct.

I'm unhappy because the saw does not have the functionality that it advertises (fast easy simple transfer of miter angles).

The feature I'm suggesting was a question to the forum on how I could modify the saw to get said feature. I never expected a fine tuning knob to be included on the miter adjustment I just asked if anyone knew how to get one on there.

My only expectation was for the transfer of an angle to be accurate and repeatable, which is what festool is supposedly all about. The videos make it so easy but the reality is that it's far from it.

Perhaps you now have a better understanding?

 

[wrightwoodwork]

Silly question when you know you have a lot of exactly the same angels to cut. Do you cut the angle then square an end then try to set the angle back to where you had it before. Then because of the human element doesn't always end up the same. Presuming that you know that you know that all the angles are the same is it possible to cut all the pieces that require that angle. Then cut them all square or to what other angel the opposite end is. Then reducing the number of time you have to set the angle and reducing the human element of getting it wrong.

 

[mastercabman]

This was discussed extensively when the Kapex was introduced in the US. Festool certainly could have made a gear driven system which would be much easier to set precisely, but that would have increased the price beyond what they thought acceptable.

How do you know that for a fact?
I agree with the OP the miter table is by far the worst part of the saw
Impossible to set in small increment
Especially when it is close to a detent
Festool could of done a better job.....FOR THE SAME PRICE!

 

[Harvey]

Hi TOAOR:
There's a few suggestions in this thread that may help you.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/kapex-miter-table-adjustment/msg273216/#msg273216

Good luck with it!

 

[Brice Burrell]

Sorry for the typo on your name Brice.

No problem. [thumbs up]  BTW, you may find this thread over on the talkFestool forum helpful, it's a fairly easy mod to make the saw turn more easily. Eiji Fuller's Kapex Mods - Miter Table

 

[Brice Burrell]

No need to transport to the saw, just transport the angle to your brain... [tongue]

Ya, while theoretically that appears to be easy to do on the surface, the older I get, I find it easier to transpose 49.5 degrees to 45.9 degrees. And it only goes down hill from there...

You can tighten the bolt and make it much more stiff.

 

[Cheese]

BTW, you may find this thread over on the talkFestool forum helpful, it's a fairly easy mod to make the saw turn more easily. Eiji Fuller's Kapex Mods - Miter Table

Thanks for posting this thread Brice. I like my Kapex but I'm going to try this fix for the turntable. [thumbs up]

Interestingly enough, one of the first things I did to the Kapex was to scribe 2 additional lines into the plastic miter gage. Now I can reliably set angles within 1/4 degrees. Festool should have done this at the factory.

 

[jimbo51]

Master cabman
"Festool could of done a better job.....FOR THE SAME PRICE!"

I agree that they could have, but Festool could not have put in a gear driven system for example for the same production cost. More complex parts increase the cost.  To maintain the same price, they would have had to accept a lower profit margin. Given the yearly price increases on so many of their products, accepting a lower profit margin does not seem the Festool way of doing business.

In theory, the Kapex design team may have had a specific deadline for completion of their project and they ran out of time before they could figure out how to adapt the bevel mechanism to mitering at an acceptable production cost.

It is all speculation, but the difference in sophistication between the bevel systems and the miter systems is so great that it is baffling to me.

 

[mastercabman]

Master cabman
"Festool could of done a better job.....FOR THE SAME PRICE!"

I agree that they could have, but Festool could not have put in a gear driven system for example for the same production cost. More complex parts increase the cost.  To maintain the same price, they would have had to accept a lower profit margin. Given the yearly price increases on so many of their products, accepting a lower profit margin does not seem the Festool way of doing business.

In theory, the Kapex design team may have had a specific deadline for completion of their project and they ran out of time before they could figure out how to adapt the bevel mechanism to mitering at an acceptable production cost.

It is all speculation, but the difference in sophistication between the bevel systems and the miter systems is so great that it is baffling to me.

So its just an opinion.

 

[Holmz]

If he says he is baffled it is more a statement of fact than just opinion.

 

[Bohdan]

Festool claim that the tight nut and stiff adjustment is a safety feature in case you don't lock the angle change after you move it.

I would have thought that the adjustment should lock as soon as you release the handle.

 

[Rob in Vancouver]

Hi TOAOR:
There's a few suggestions in this thread that may help you.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/kapex-miter-table-adjustment/msg273216/#msg273216

Good luck with it!

Perfect thanks Harvey

 

[mastercabman]

If he says he is baffled it is more a statement of fact than just opinion.

No
It's an opinion when he says that the kapex would cost a lot more if Festool would of made the miter table better than what is now
An opinion not a fact!

 

[Holmz]

If he says he is baffled it is more a statement of fact than just opinion.

No
It's an opinion when he says that the kapex would cost a lot more if Festool would of made the miter table better than what is now
An opinion not a fact!

My sarcasm is consistent.

On the other hand he was forthcoming:

...
It is all speculation, but the difference in sophistication between the bevel systems and the miter systems is so great that it is baffling to me.

I do not know what the design costs, manufacturing costs, and distributions costs are... But people that are spending this sort of money would probably spend a bit more for the tool if it solved the entirety of the tasks?

 

[Birdhunter]

"Silly question when you know you have a lot of exactly the same angels to cut. "

When I have a need to replicate cuts, I think jig.

I had the issue on a project that required a specific angle cut on a number of pieces. I did need to return the saw to 90 degrees between angle cuts. I got the Kapex angle where I wanted it and then cut  a length of board which I incorporated into a jig. The jig backed up to the fence and I could pivot the Kapex blade up against the jig to reestablish the desired angle.

 

[jimbo51]

I based my statement on the well accepted project management triangle; cost, time, quality. For the sake of this discussion, we can assume that Festool would not have been willing to sacrifice quality. That leaves the issues of cost and time as to why Festool did not produce a better miter system. I already noted that time pressure could have been a reason, but since this was a brand new product, it seems a bit illogical. Why hurry the introduction if the product has a sub system (miter) that is below the sophistication of the sub system parts (bevel, laser). That leaves cost as the issue where Festool had to make a decision. I will stand by my statement that complexity cost more than simplicity in mechanical systems. Of course that is just my opinion.

Master cabman
"Festool could of done a better job.....FOR THE SAME PRICE!"

It appears that you believe that this is a fact. I ask that you provide your line of reasoning for this. I am willing to be persuaded.

 

[mastercabman]

Master cabman
"Festool could of done a better job.....FOR THE SAME PRICE!"

It appears that you believe that this is a fact. I ask that you provide your line of reasoning for this. I am willing to be persuaded.

Because anybody else can! [wink]