Advice for next tool purchase : DF 500 or TSO GRS-16 PE v2 and parallel guide

[sebr023]

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Hi all!

So yeah, my birthday was last week and my gift from everone (including me) is a tool. though, I get to chose the tool.

I have a contractor table (Dewalt DCS7485B) saw and a festool track saw ( with 2x 1400mm track). I say this because I think it weighs in the balance of choosing. I , for now, mainly do cabinet making. Very basic. Think speaker/subwoofer box and besta-style (from ikea) cabinet. Though I'd like to be better and build more cabinet.

i'm torn between a Domino DF 500 or a ''kit'' of a track square and a parralel guide for the track from TSO. I feel like having a reliable way top break down sheets of plywood/mdf and having square cuts. I feel like I can always use screws, pocket hole, etc for fastening the cabinet.

The thing I think I would love the most about the Domino, is when gluing the cabinet, they would remain square and not '' glide'' because of the glue.

My table saw isnt permanent in my shop as I dont have the space now because we moved last year and I didnt organize the shop yet. For now the table saw is in the backward shed, its the winter. If I want to cut something, I would have to go get it, bring in back in the shop, do the cuts, and bring it back to the shed. Thats why Ive set up a Bora centipede, with a plywood sheet on top, and use my track saw for most of my cut (at least during winter time) that doesnt required huge repeatability (vs the fence of the table saw)

hopes it clear haha. English is not my first language and sometime writing and explaining is hard.

What would you next tool purchased be ?

Also, I feel like tso is a great product, but if you have other suggestion for similar product, I'd be happy to hear them.
Keep in mind I'm in Canada.

Thanks all!

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Hi [member=78111]sebr023[/member] ,

I think you may have answered your own question, leaning towards the TSO square and parallel guide set. Once properly calibrated, it should allow you greater precision and control when breaking down sheets and precisely sizing your carcass parts, as well as a variety of other tasks.

The Domino is certainly a nice tool, but it's pretty specialized.

My sensibility would be to opt for the more versatile TSO setup now, you can always acquire a Domino at a later time, and in the mean time there are plenty of other joinery options.

Either way, I hope you enjoy your new tool, and be safe out there.

 

[MikeGE]

Happy birthday! 

I have the Domino as well as an extensive TSO kit.  If I had to choose only one to keep, it would be the Domino.

I was breaking down full sheets of material in my garage years before I bought a tracksaw and managed to make square and consistent cuts using a circular saw and careful measurement.  The rail and parallel guides simplify the process, but are not essential.

Likewise, I used pocket hole screws, lap joints, butt joints, and other methods with my first cabinet projects.  I now use the Domino in nearly every project and do not want to go back to the pre-Domino methods.

 

[onocoffee]

I don't know what pricing is like where you are but I would go with the Domino because it gives you greater/wider capacity. square cuts on sheet goods can be made very accurate with careful measuring, placement and lockdown of the tracks. The Domino expands on your capabilities. You can always get the TSO stuff piece by piece as you move forward.

 

[sebr023]

I don't know what pricing is like where you are but I would go with the Domino because it gives you greater/wider capacity. square cuts on sheet goods can be made very accurate with careful measuring, placement and lockdown of the tracks. The Domino expands on your capabilities. You can always get the TSO stuff piece by piece as you move forward.

Last time I checked, the full tso kit, parallel bar 30 and 50 in is 460$USD i believe, + square is around....( went to add them to a cart)

GOOD LORD, haha, never put them all in the sanme cart. its 732 USD + 120 usd for shipping! HAHAHAH
its 1107 cad + tx and/or custom
thats directly on their website.
[attachimg=2]

darn it!  [eek]

edit: I've converted usd to cad using 1.3, which was the case for the couples of last years.
Checked to make sure. Its now 1.44.

so 852 usd is 1226.88 CAD

 

[sebr023]

Happy birthday! 

I have the Domino as well as an extensive TSO kit.  If I had to choose only one to keep, it would be the Domino.

I was breaking down full sheets of material in my garage years before I bought a tracksaw and managed to make square and consistent cuts using a circular saw and careful measurement.  The rail and parallel guides simplify the process, but are not essential.

Likewise, I used pocket hole screws, lap joints, butt joints, and other methods with my first cabinet projects.  I now use the Domino in nearly every project and do not want to go back to the pre-Domino methods.

thank you!!

I undertsand what youre saying, but also, parallel guide improve greatly rapidity vs measure each time ?! and making sure you're squared, vs screwing vs domino ?!

Like domino-ing is a bit longer than just screwing in from the back or the side. But you maybe have less finishing and hiding opf the fastener after when using domino.

Someone else ask about price, and tso parallel and sqaure is 300 bucks short of a domino. :/ going to really think about that domino!!!

 

[Michael Kellough]

I’d take advantage of this special opportunity to buy the Domino kit.

TSO stuff is very good but there are multiple ways to accomplish making parallel cuts.
Some of the ways are less convenient but not terribly so, compared to the alternative ways to make mortises.

 

[sebr023]

I’d take advantage of this special opportunity to buy the Domino kit.

TSO stuff is very good but there are multiple ways to accomplish making parallel cuts.
Some of the ways are less convenient but not terribly so, compared to the alternative ways to make mortises.

And I have a 3d printer and 2 incra track laying around. and theres files online for parallel guide

 

[ChuckM]

The two items you're considering (happy birthday , btw) are two different animals. If you feel more need for one than the other, pick the one that is more "needy." If they don't make a difference in terms of needs, the DF500 is my recommendation.

The DF500 is more than a joinery tool if you're willing to explore it (many user ideas on the net). I've used it to make these in addition to the standard carcase/shelfing applications:

Louvred screens
Fruit bowls
Chairs
Tabletop fasteners
Corner splines.

Once you've mastered the machine, you won't find another joinery method that you currently use faster than it in execution. It's now my sole joinery method for everything I build including angled joints except when I do it by hand (hand-cut dovetails, for example). I use it like a production machine and often make 4 to 10 of the same item (given as gifts) at a time.

 

[rmhinden]

It's your birthday, get both

BTW, regarding the parallel guides, you only need to get the guides, the systainer stuff could be gotten later.  You might also want to consider the longer versions (that would not fit in the systainer).

Bob

 

[Crazyraceguy]

This would be an extremely hard decision for me, in those circumstances, but I think that it's mostly because I have owned/used a Domino for over a decade. My mind is skewed toward it, but I do way more complex things than cabinets.
In your situation, I think I would go with the track saw guides first. They are way more suited for cabinet making. It is far easier to build a square box, when the parts are correctly sized/shaped.
Don't get me wrong, the Domino is fantastic, I wouldn't want to be without one. However, there are alternate construction methods, for simple carcasses, unless you are making face frames for them. That would change the dynamics totally.
Sure, you can build face frames with a pocket screw jig too, but I would much rather use the Domino there.
Simplified:
Frameless cabinets - Track saw guides
Face frames and more complex joinery - DF500
That would go for frame & panel doors too.

 

[cpw]

I would consider getting just the rail square standalone and not the parallel guides + the DF500.  Of course it is easy to spend someone else's money.

The DF500 opens up new capabilities compared to a parallel guide which just speed up the process of getting the track to make the same cut.

If you don't think you'll actually make use of the domino, then the TSO stuff is well built.  For furniture, the Domino is probably my most used tool - so I am biased.  For cabinets, it is less essential but still useful.

 

[sebr023]

The two items you're considering (happy birthday , btw) are two different animals. If you feel more need for one than the other, pick the one that is more "needy." If they don't make a difference in terms of needs, the DF500 is my recommendation.

The DF500 is more than a joinery tool if you're willing to explore it (many user ideas on the net). I've used it to make these in addition to the standard carcase/shelfing applications:

Louvred screens
Fruit bowls
Chairs
Tabletop fasteners
Corner splines.

Once you've mastered the machine, you won't find another joinery method that you currently use faster than it in execution. It's now my sole joinery method for everything I build including angled joints except when I do it by hand (hand-cut dovetails, for example). I use it like a production machine and often make 4 to 10 of the same item (given as gifts) at a time.

thank you for your reply.
I know that they are 2 completely different tools. I felt I could ''save some money'' if I went with tso product. While being true, I thought it would cost me like 500$ CAD for what's seem to be 1200 CAD. guess I didnt check price well enough before. XD

 

[sebr023]

It's your birthday, get both

BTW, regarding the parallel guides, you only need to get the guides, the systainer stuff could be gotten later.  You might also want to consider the longer versions (that would not fit in the systainer).

Bob

oh yeah definately, but tso are the only one, I believe, selling the systainer. So I added it in the cart to not pay 100$ to get it shipped in at a later date, but it would cost 100$ to ship the 20in parallel guide anyway.

in the cart, its the 30 and 50 in version of the parrallel.

unfortunately, I would really like to get both, at the same time. for sure, but I cant afford both at the same time
Oh maybe some of you would want to chip in for my birthday  ;D  hahahah

 

[sebr023]

This would be an extremely hard decision for me, in those circumstances, but I think that it's mostly because I have owned/used a Domino for over a decade. My mind is skewed toward it, but I do way more complex things than cabinets.
In your situation, I think I would go with the track saw guides first. They are way more suited for cabinet making. It is far easier to build a square box, when the parts are correctly sized/shaped.
Don't get me wrong, the Domino is fantastic, I wouldn't want to be without one. However, there are alternate construction methods, for simple carcasses, unless you are making face frames for them. That would change the dynamics totally.
Sure, you can build face frames with a pocket screw jig too, but I would much rather use the Domino there.
Simplified:
Frameless cabinets - Track saw guides
Face frames and more complex joinery - DF500
That would go for frame & panel doors too.

Havent build anything with a faceframe yet. but in our daughters room, I'm supposed to build two cabinet, and this morning I thought I could faceframe it. would look way better, and I wouldnt need to use twice the amount of plywood

 

[sebr023]

I would consider getting just the rail square standalone and not the parallel guides + the DF500.  Of course it is easy to spend someone else's money.

The DF500 opens up new capabilities compared to a parallel guide which just speed up the process of getting the track to make the same cut.

If you don't think you'll actually make use of the domino, then the TSO stuff is well built.  For furniture, the Domino is probably my most used tool - so I am biased.  For cabinets, it is less essential but still useful.

My first speaker build I did was birch plywood and I didnt want to see screws or whatever. This could have been soooo usefull to have the domino. I could get square ffor now for sure but yet again, I find that 600 CAD for an aluminium square is kinda outrageous.

[attachimg=1]

 

[sebr023]

Alternatively,

how you guys feels toward the special edition systainer that comes witth the 100th anniversary kit for the DF500 ?

 

[peter halle]

I would go the TSO route but evaluate what size parallel guide kit you are buying.  Most people I've heard talking about their purchases have said that they don't use the largest sizes.

Virtually every project I know that I've done has involved cutting wood.  As you said there are multiple ways to join wood.  I know that I might be the oddity, but I use my parallel guides (Festool version) more than I use my Domino.

Aren't birthdays great!

Peter

 

[cpw]

My first speaker build I did was birch plywood and I didnt want to see screws or whatever. This could have been soooo usefull to have the domino. I could get square ffor now for sure but yet again, I find that 600 CAD for an aluminium square is kinda outrageous.

I have way too many systainers, but did not feel the need to purchase one for the guide rail square.  You may find that purchasing a "Festool 575413 Angled Stop" in Euros is more cost effective.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Alternatively,

how you guys feels toward the special edition systainer that comes witth the 100th anniversary kit for the DF500 ?

I was just talking about this last Friday, with my helper/apprentice. If they had put that 100 logo on the actual machine, rather than just the Systainer, I would sell mine to him and get the new one. Since it is just the box......I'm out.
If/when they ever release that Systainer alone, I will definitely pick one up. There was a time when I avoided the special edition blue ones, because they didn't match the rest. I've gotten past that with the addition of some others that don't either, Woodpeckers, TSO, Shaper. Since then, I do have a few Festool blue ones, but I would still want the tool be different.
My first Domino was a 90th anniversary, and all that was distinctive about them was a sticker on the T-loc latch. I get it, it was only 90, but 100? It needs something. It's only March, maybe there are other things to come?
The 90th logo didn't get applied to every tool back then, so who knows....