Advice needed on new All In One PC

[jonny round boy]

I currently have a 6-7 year old laptop, but it's really on it's last legs, and needs replacing with something a bit better.

It's located on a table in our living room, and never goes anywhere else, so I don't really need the portability of a laptop. Having said that, I do need to remove it if we ever need the table for anything else, like if we have guests round for a meal, so I don't want to replace it with a desktop or tower machine with multiple mains plugs &lots of leads. This has lead to the conclusion that one of the new style all in one or AIO machines would fit the bill perfectly. Also, it seems that all in one machines have a much better spec for the same money compared to laptops.

The trouble is, I'm a bit stuck on what direction to take now - the AIOs I've looked at fall into two main camps - those with a touchscreen, and those without. A touchscreen is something I don't feel I need, but if I go for one without will I be missing out in the future? This purchase has to last hopefully as long as the last!

I'm slightly nervous about windows 8, in that I have zero experience of it, and it seems to be designed for touchscreens. I'm thinking if I go for a non-touchscreen one, I need to find one with windows 7, whereas I feel that I could maybe accept windows 8 more easily if I go with a touchscreen. Does that make sense, or am I worrying about nothing?

Also, I'm sure when it came to processors, things used to be more straightforward: the higher the speed, the better. Now it seems much more complicated. For example, one I was looking at came with the option of a Intel i3 processor at 3.1GHz, or a more expensive i5 at 2.9GHz. So which is better?

As well as the usual e-mail & internet browsing, I'll mainly be using it for SketchUp and basic photo editing (both of which are really slow on my laptop), but I'd also like to get into some basic video editing, mainly for FOG reviews & woodworking videos.

Does anyone have an AIO? What are your thoughts on it?

Jonathan

 

[AlexThePalex]

Microsoft just announced they're going to do a major overhaul of Windows 8. They realised customers weren't so wild about the touch screen experience on their desktops.

So I am sure you're not going to miss out on anything if you don't have a touch screen. But on the other hand, if the AIO comes with it, it wouldn't hurt, would it?

What I'm not so sure of is that an AIO is really a lot cheaper than a laptop. I can't say I have taken much interest in them yet but whenever I see one it seems pretty expensive to me. I always built my own rigs so I know what performance you can get at a certain pricepoint, and AIO's are way more expensive for the same performance, taking the price of the touch screen in consideration.

 

[GarryMartin]

I can help with some of the questions, but some are more a personal preference than a definitive position. Personally, I don't particularly like AIO PCs - sure the Apple machines are gorgeous (and expensive) but the non-Apple versions always seem to be a compromise in one way or another.

That aside, and assuming you've done your homework to decide the AIO is the right machine for you, I can help with some of the other questions.

The touchscreen is still a bit of a gimmick for me on a desktop machine. Everything you want to do will still require the resolution that a mouse provides, and you'll still need a keyboard, so it's just another place you need to move your hands to. Sure, on a tablet it makes sense, but not on a desktop, at least IMHO.

Windows 8 is OK from a consumer perspective, and you can quickly click "Desktop" from the Metro tiled interface and end up in a Windows 7-like world. If you miss the Start button, which has been one of the biggest complaints, you can add third party software to "restore it". I'm typing this on a Windows 8 machine. I didn't like it to begin with, but have become more used to it over time. As opposed to my streamlined workflow on Windows 7, I had to "learn" new ways of doing some things and it takes time to adapt. But nothing to worry about.

Rumours have it that Windows "Blue" (the codename for the next release of Windows) will allow booting direct to the desktop environment and may even bring back a Start button. Windows is being released in shorter cycles now, so Windows 8.1 may be here very soon and should (?) be a free upgrade to Windows 8.

Short story is you shouldn't be worried about Windows 8 vs. Windows 7 as a consumer. If you do go with a touchscreen, *definitely* go with Windows 8 - the touch support is much better.

Intel i3, i5 and i7 are a chip family. Generally, the i3 is the lower end, i5 the middle tier, and i7 the performance chip. However, it's never that clear cut. The best thing to do is to find the various processors at http://www.cpubenchmark.net/ and then compare the PassMark CPU Mark - the higher the better.

Your use case wouldn't lead me to think you'll need an i7, and an i3 will probably be sufficient. Given the small difference in costs on some models, and the slightly longer retention times of desktops over laptops, I'd probably stick with an i5.

Hope this helps.

PM me if you want/need to talk anything through and I'll send my phone number.

I've worked with computers and in IT all my life, and am a senior solution architect at a leading UK consultancy, so sort of know what I'm talking about... ;-)

 

[oldie]

Would definitely hang on for the next ‘upgrade’ of Windows 8; then pull the trigger – later this year they reckon; which makes sense time wise.
Supposedly going to make improvements to address some of the whinges lots of people have.
(a bit like people would hold off until the first service pack of earlier versions.)
You’ll probably get more for your money by holding off a while as well.
IMHO, think this touch screen business on PCs is just them trying to pull a fast one.  Great for tablets etc.

AIOs recognised as not being, at all, good value for a given level of performance; so given your interest in image / videoing – would be looking at PC, particularly as AIOs not so easy (if at all) to upgrade – eg to a better monitor / graphics card.  Also, pick carefully, much more likely to get later technology in a PC for same money – eg  motherboard that fully support SSDs.
(Must admit though,AIOs can look very seductive can’t they.)
As an example, I’ve now read three separate reviews of the Benq monitor BL2410PT.  All give it 5 stars/best buy; one biggy is that has ‘excellent image quality’ with colour just about spot on out of the box.  What sort of monitor would the AIO have? – remember here, I’m thinking of your interest in image editing.

Wrt to CPUs.  Would just go for Intel i5 3570K.  Most seem to agree hits a sweet spot cost vs performance.

Take your time, try to get familiar with what’s out there, and, as far as possible don’t impulse buy is my advice.

Richard
(see Alex and GaryMartin posted as I was composing)

 

[GarryMartin]

Would definitely hang on for the next ‘upgrade’ of Windows 8; then pull the trigger – later this year they reckon; which makes sense time wise.

I've checked, and the next version of Windows 8 (codenamed Windows "Blue" but really Windows 8.1) will be a free of charge upgrade to current Windows 8 users, so no need to wait.

 

[jonny round boy]

Thanks guys,

To be honest the lack of upgradeability isn't an issue for me, combined with the fact it has to sit in our living room, and unfortunately a desktop is out of the question even though I know that would provide the best cost/performance.

I also had a PM suggesting an imac, but that's way out of my budget. Maybe I should have been more specific. I'm looking at spending around £600, which will get me a 21.5" non-touch screen @ 1920x1080 resolution, with an i3 3.3GHz processor, or maybe even a i5 2.9GHz.

The same budget for a laptop will get me only a slightly slower processor (i3 or i5 at 2.5GHz) but I'd be limited to a 15.6" screen at 1366x768, or maybe 1600x900. One of the things on my want list is a bigger, higher res screen.

To get a touchscreen I'd need to spend another £150-200, which I might be prepared to do if it's going to be of benefit, but at the moment I don't think it will be.

I've done a bit more research, and I'm currently leaning toward a Lenovo ThinkCentre Edge 92z....

 

[oldie]

My - that Lenovo looks really nice.  Good reviews as well.
Can understand why made your decision.
Plan B of my advice  ;D  (Love fantasising  how others should spend their money.)

The other thing I picked up on in your post, is that you plan (hope) to keep for quite a while.
In that context, as far as possible, think good to get best spec you can - for eg, doubt you would be able to easily upgrade CPU.
Middle range i5 processor would give a bit more elbow room; for eg if future image processing programs become more demanding, or, your (more complex) usage becomes more demanding re image/video editing + sketch-up.
To me, it's a bit like comparing a C12 to C15/C18 - even if C12 will do want you want today - nice to have the extra power if ever needed.
Similarly - the longer you can hold off, maybe better spec at same price.

As you've gathered, think that PC touch screen for everyday use is a big, big (commercially driven) red herring - wouldn't even think about it.

Richard

 

[rrmccabe]

Classic Shell !

I install it on all my customers machines that don't want to deal with Metro.  I think that would be about all of them. LOL

Classic Shell is free and allows you to make Windows 8  about like XP, Vista or 7 as far as the menu goes. And it will boot straight to the desktop.

The Windows 8 architecture is actually pretty good. The Menu just sucks.

 

[jonny round boy]

Thanks for all the help guys!

I bought the Lenovo in the end, with the i3 processor (ThinkCentre Edge 92z, i3-3220 @3.3GHz, 4GB/500GB, 21.5" non-touch). It was on a good deal, and with cashback too on that model, so got it for around £560 (inc. UK vat @20%). I've just checked, and the price of this model has just gone UP by £31, so glad I bought it when I did! To step up to the i5 would have cost an additional £200, which I didn't think was worth it (I could buy a retail-boxed i5 processor for less than that & switch it out if I really needed to!).

Windows 8 is just confusing. Maybe I'm getting old, but I just don't see the point in the tile UI. I've installed classic shell (thanks, rrmccabe!) and it's definitely an improvement. Some aspects of windows 8 still bug me, for instance, some applications randomly open in the tile interface, but I'm sure I'll get used to it eventually.

One thing I can't solve - when something does open in the tile interface (for example, the default PDF reader), how do you close it down properly? Sure, I can switch back to the desktop view, but the document is still open in the background. The only way I can close it fully is to control-alt-delete, open the task manager, and end the program in there.

It's annoying that windows 8 mail doesn't support pop accounts, but I've installed windows live mail instead. Transferring my old e-mails from Outlook to WLM took some doing - it seems it's been designed deliberately to stop you doing it! I tried various methods, but in the end started up outlook express on the laptop, imported all the mail into there from outlook, and then copied the .dbx files to the new PC. I could then import them into WLM

Other than that, I love it, and it's so much faster than my crappy old laptop!

 

[GarryMartin]

how do you close it down properly?

Windows Store applications (their official name, sometimes called Metro applications) don't slow down your PC in the same way as old applications did. Windows will close it itself eventually, but if you do want to close it, you can either click the top of the application and drag it to the bottom of the screen, or using the keyboard, press ALT+F4.

 

[jonny round boy]

how do you close it down properly?

Windows Store applications (their official name, sometimes called Metro applications) don't slow down your PC in the same way as old applications did. Windows will close it itself eventually, but if you do want to close it, you can either click the top of the application and drag it to the bottom of the screen, or using the keyboard, press ALT+F4.

Thanks Gary!

Since you seem to know what you're talking about (you've dropped yourself in it there!) I have another question for you if that's ok?

It seems that I have inadvertently installed an IE add-on called 'Solid Savings'. It's one of these things that highlights certain words & pulls up a small advert when you mouse over them. It's really annoying! If I go into 'manage add-ons' in internet options, it doesn't give me the option of disabling it:

[attachimg=1]

Any ideas on how to get rid of it?

Thanks,

Jonathan

 

[GarryMartin]

Is there an option to uninstall from Control Panel?

 

[jonny round boy]

Doh! [doh]

I didn't think it would be that simple. Yes, I was able to uninstall using 'add/remove programs'.

Thanks. [embarassed]

 

[GarryMartin]

No problem.  [big grin]

I almost didn't ask. I thought, hey, this guy knows how to get to the configuration settings for add-ons in Internet Explorer, *of course* he'd have checked Control Panel.

Then I remembered just how many times I've searched for complex solutions when the simple ones have been staring me in the face and thought, hey, I'll just ask...  [wink]

 

[rljatl]

Edited to add - Oops, see you have already made the purchase.  Oh well, for someone else maybe?.....

i5 has been the current standard, but things are moving to the i7.  I bought an i7 over a year ago.  Do you use Photoshop or do any photo processing?  If so, at least do some price comparisons between the i5 and i7.  Personally, I would not go below an i5 for sure.  Get one with a separate graphics chip rather than one included with the Intel chip.

I would recommend getting a laptop with an external monitor and keyboard rather than the AIO.  You can buy the monitor as funds permit and the external keyboard is cheap (get Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse - read reviews on Amazon or TigerDirect)  Still easy to move off the table, more versatile. 

Also, a laptop would allow you to use an HDMI cable to hook up to your TV...nice to be able to use your TV as a computer monitor and to stream movies to your TV off the web.  Imagine laying down on your couch while surfing the web on your big screen TV or easily switching back to regular TV  or to a streamed movie!  ;-)

 

[jonny round boy]

Also, a laptop would allow you to use an HDMI cable to hook up to your TV...nice to be able to use your TV as a computer monitor and to stream movies to your TV off the web.  Imagine laying down on your couch while surfing the web on your big screen TV or easily switching back to regular TV  or to a streamed movie!  ;-)

The AIO has HDMI out if I wanted to connect it to the TV, but there's no need - I have a dedicated HTPC hooked up permanently to the TV, and most of the TV I watch is streamed/downloaded anyway. This is completely separate.