Advice on Frame & Panel Doors

[dlu]

I'm building a couple of frame and panel pocket doors. I'd like to do one large translucent panel -- about 2' x 6' (600 x 1800 mm). I'm thinking of doing this with a sandwich of two sheets of 2.5 mm extruded plexiglass with a layer of rice paper in between.

Questions:

• Will the sandwich be stiff enough? I don't expect anyone to be banging into the doors (and I expect that they will almost always be open.
• How much variation should I anticipate in the thickness of the plexiglass? I'm wondering if a 1/4" (6.35 mm) slot will be large enough to allow the sandwich to slide in.
• Do I need to concern myself with dust or moisture infiltration between the layers of the sandwich?

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Everything sounds OK in principle. How wide are you planning to make the horizontal and vertical door rails? And what thickness of material are you planning to use?

Kevin

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I would want the plexiglass and rice paper in-hand so I could verify the actual assembly thickness prior to producing the stiles/rails, assuming you're planning on a captured panel.

Have you considered a loose glazing stop on one side? That would allow you a lot more grace if the material thickness has a little variability.

As Kevin asked, are you planning on a 35mm or 45mm door?

 

[Cheese]

I would want the plexiglass and rice paper in-hand so I could verify the actual assembly thickness prior to producing the stiles/rails, assuming you're planning on a captured panel.

I'd also want to have the actual materials on hand before I started to machine any dimensions. The manufacturers can offer material dimensions but that can be dimensions from cut-sheets or even dimensions that are not regularly monitored.

What you have in your hand is what you have to work with.  [big grin]

 

[Packard]

Other options:

They manufacture frosted acrylic sheet in various thicknesses. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=frosted acrylic sheet&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m

Or use clear acrylic sheet and apply a frosted film.  I’ve done this and it is easy and quick and can be removed and replaced.

Or use a spray frost-effect.  I’ve done this also.  It worked well.  I got the frost spray at Walmart.  You do have to mask for overspray.

Or buy frosted tempered glass from your local glazier.  This would be the top option for me.  It does have to be tempered for a door. 

 

[Cheese]

If you decide to go Packard's route, check these folks out for film purchase. They have literally hundreds of options. From time to time they offer free shipping and you can order up to 6 free film samples. The samples arrive within 2-3 days. They have outside film, inside film, solar film, privacy film...I've had excellent results with their films.
https://www.decorativefilm.com

 

[dlu]

Everything sounds OK in principle. How wide are you planning to make the horizontal and vertical door rails? And what thickness of material are you planning to use?

Overall the doors will be 900 mm x 2220 mm, with 150 mm stiles and a bottom rail of 250 mm and a top rail of 200 mm. The material will be a three layer sandwich, with the outer layers made of 1/2" MDF and the middle layer from 1/4" -- so the overall thickness will be just over 32 mm.

 

[dlu]

I would want the plexiglass and rice paper in-hand so I could verify the actual assembly thickness prior to producing the stiles/rails, assuming you're planning on a captured panel.

I'd also want to have the actual materials on hand before I started to machine any dimensions. The manufacturers can offer material dimensions but that can be dimensions from cut-sheets or even dimensions that are not regularly monitored.

What you have in your hand is what you have to work with.  [big grin]

That is indeed sage advice. I was hoping to be able to get close enough that I could use 1/4" MDF to create the groove for the plexiglass. That way I could leave out the middle layer of MDF in the bottom rail which would allow me to slide in the plexiglass-rice paper sandwich. Both because it seemed fun to be able to play with the look of the doors and also so that we could experiment with the tradeoff between light transmission and privacy.

 

[dlu]

Other options:

They manufacture frosted acrylic sheet in various thicknesses. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=frosted acrylic sheet&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m

Or use clear acrylic sheet and apply a frosted film.  I’ve done this and it is easy and quick and can be removed and replaced.

Or use a spray frost-effect.  I’ve done this also.  It worked well.  I got the frost spray at Walmart.  You do have to mask for overspray.

Or buy frosted tempered glass from your local glazier.  This would be the top option for me.  It does have to be tempered for a door.

Thanks for these ideas. Around here (western WA in the US) sheets of tempered glass that big are prohibitively expensive -- about 2 or 3 times the cost of extruded plexiglass. I'd wondered about using something like frosted film, but was concerned that you might be able to see where the adhesion was less than perfect.

 

[Packard]

My first choice would be the window film.  It costs $20.00/roll and is about 18” wide.

You wet the film with water first and then position it on the glass.  Once in place you squeegee from the center out to the edges.  I got no bubbles the last time used this.  But if you do get a bubble, use a sharp sewing needle to pierce the center of the bubble and then squeegee.  The piercing becomes invisible.

Try it on a piece of glass or plexiglass first are an experiment.  It is removable and can be replaced at any time.

Get the Walmart app.  It’s free.  It will give a description and price.  It will tell you if your local Walmart has it in stock and (most important) which aisle and row it is located at. 

I have one of those over-sized super Walmarts, and you can easily spend a half hour looking for this if you don’t know where to look.

Search for “glass privacy film”.

 

[Cheese]

Just noticed your panel will be about 24" wide so you'd want a piece of film at least 24" wide. Here's White Sand Matte which would produce a similar look to rice paper. It's available in 12"/48" & 60" widths.
https://www.decorativefilm.com/solyx-sx-1409-sand-matte-60-widehttps://www.decorativefilm.com/plain-light-diffusinghttps://www.decorativefilm.com/plai...level=1&i_f_style=1&f_style=Plain&i_f_brand=1

Like Packard mentioned, I've never had an issue with air bubbles, just make sure the plastic/glass is absolutely clean and lint free.

 

[Peter Kelly]

I'm building a couple of frame and panel pocket doors. I'd like to do one large translucent panel -- about 2' x 6' (600 x 1800 mm). I'm thinking of doing this with a sandwich of two sheets of 2.5 mm extruded plexiglass with a layer of rice paper in between.

Questions:

• Will the sandwich be stiff enough? I don't expect anyone to be banging into the doors (and I expect that they will almost always be open.
• How much variation should I anticipate in the thickness of the plexiglass? I'm wondering if a 1/4" (6.35 mm) slot will be large enough to allow the sandwich to slide in.
• Do I need to concern myself with dust or moisture infiltration between the layers of the sandwich?

If you’re just going for translucent, I’d go with a sheet of 3/16 in frosted, tempered glass. If you’re anywhere near Vancouver Washington, you can save a bunch on shipping if you get your panels from Peninsula Glass >> onedayglass.com

Cast acrylic sheets just won’t look as good as an insert. They also scratch really easily. 

 

[dlu]

If you’re just going for translucent, I’d go with a sheet of 3/16 in frosted, tempered glass. If you’re anywhere near Vancouver Washington, you can save a bunch on shipping if you get your panels from Peninsula Glass >> onedayglass.com

Cast acrylic sheets just won’t look as good as an insert. They also scratch really easily.

I'm "close enough" to Vancouver and even with shipping Peninsula Glass /https://onedayglass.com (which is actually three-day glass (due to curing times) on insulated glass units) is very competitive -- and they are great folks to deal with. I've used them for insulated units for exterior doors and I've been super happy with the price and service.

But the price of even 1/8" frosted glass and is pretty high which is what pushed me to the plexiglass idea (especially since the door will be open almost all of the time), but for clear glass, it's a different story. I just checked 3/16" and it's about on par with plexiglass. Using privacy film seems like a good way to go.

 

[dlu]

If you decide to go Packard's route, check these folks out for film purchase. They have literally hundreds of options. From time to time they offer free shipping and you can order up to 6 free film samples. The samples arrive within 2-3 days. They have outside film, inside film, solar film, privacy film...I've had excellent results with their films.
https://www.decorativefilm.com

Thank you! That's a great lead.

 

[Picktool]

There's 3M Fasara also

 

[tjbnwi]

It's a door, check your code, you may need double strength or tempered if you use glass.

Tom

 

[Cheese]

Using privacy film seems like a good way to go.

Like Tom mentioned, check your local code for what's needed. I ran into an issue that was solved with one of these 8 mil films for code compliance in the Twin Cities.
https://www.decorativefilm.com/prod..._f_brand=1&i_f_specialty=1&f_specialty=Safety

If this were my project, I'd definitely install a glass panel. They're more easily cleaned, they don't scratch and are not dust & pet hair magnets. The only down side is the additional weight.

 

[Packard]

I think some sort of safety glass is required for doors and sidelights in almost all jurisdictions in the USA.  It is also required for windows that are mounted low to the floor.

It is especially important if there are children in the household.

 

[dlu]

It's a door, check your code, you may need double strength or tempered if you use glass.

Code or not, if I decide to go with glass it will definitely be tempered. The thought of what could happen if a big sheet of glass like that broke is all too reminiscent of a guillotine...

That said, I'm pretty sure that it's a universal code requirement in the US to use tempered glass in doors and widows adjacent to them.

 

[dlu]

It is especially important if there are children in the household.

Even if you don't have / expect children, you can't predict the makeup of a new owner's household. Not to mention your own clumsiness...