Agressive sanding - Makita belt or Fes roto?

Aegwyn11

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I've already got a Makita 9920 (3x24) belt sander. I'm working on a pretty big project sanding down the walking surface of my deck. Also, I'm a DIY'er...not a pro.

I'm basically taking the rough surface of the deck back to a smooth surface, which is requiring quite a lot of sanding. Would some like the RAS 115.04 E make things go faster? Or should I just stick to the Makita belt sander?
 
I have the rotex 150 & think that would give you a better end result than a belt sander.  The rotex has a fast removal mode & at the flick of a swith you can do fine finnishing.  Would also recomend using any sander with a shop vac.  Hope this helps,
Woodguy.
 
The RAS will whoop my rotex any day of the week.  That thing eats wood.  Very nice single purpose tool. 
 
But is the RAS going to chow wood faster than the Makita belt sander? Fast enough to justify $230? I want to say its taking me about 10-15 minutes per 12' long 6" wide deck board with the belt sander and 60 grit. And I'm having to replace belts every 3-5 boards depending on how often I stop to blow built up dust off the belt.
 
with the ras or rotex connected to a vac, your sandpaper will last much longer.
woodguy.
 
How big's your deck? I have ~ 50m2 in my back garden that needs refinishing, and after an hour or so with the Rotex knocking off the peaks the short answer is - dude, use the Rotex on the edges & details, and hire a floor sander for the rest. Job done - and saves your back too!

Cheers, Pete
 
First, let me concur with the others on dust extraction...your paper will last longer, the results will be better, and your lungs will thank you.

Now if I was to put myself in your shoes, as a DIYer, and all I wanted to do was to sand this deck (one project)...I would probably use the belt sander and suffer through it.  However, if you plan on doing other rough sanding projects you will not regret using the Festool RAS.  If you feel like you will have future projects both rough and fine sanding, then nothing beats the Rotex 150 hooked to a dust extractor.  It is the most versatile sander and my go to sander most of the time...I even used it today to polish the lid on a beer stein with the Platin abrasive ;-)  But, only you know how often you would use it. 
 
I cannot speak about your Makita but I can speak about my belt sander.  I have a Porter Cable 4" x 24" belt sander that is incredably aggressive.  So much so that I never use it.  I find it very hard to control.  If I am after a consistent surface, I really have some problems with it wanting to run away.  I guess it would be good for general stock removal but I don't do much, or any of that.

I have to agree with Martin.  Since you are working on a deck outside I am not sure that dust control is an issue. Since you are just working on the high traffic area of the deck, how much surface could we be talking about?

The Rotex sanders are a great long term investment.  If you want to get it, go for it.  I do think that in the short term, you might want to stick with what you have.

Neill
 
My tools include an RO 125, an ETS 150/3, a Bosch 4x24 belt sander, and B&D commercial duty 7"  sander/angle grinder.  I have a very large deck, too (~5 gallons for a single coat restain) some of which I have rebuilt and all of which I have restained several times.  And some oak parquet floors that I have refinished. 

The B&D angle sander/grinder is the tool for fastest material removal, but like the belt sander is a close second.  The 7" disks are far more durable than the 4x24 belts.  But it is difficult to control each of them and to avoid gouging the surface being sanded.  The belt sander also is very tiring to use, too, due to its strong pulling force while in full contact with the substrate.  I recommend hooking up any belt sander to a dust extractor whenever possible and grounding the belt sander to the vacuum machine to avoid getting frequent static shocks when sanding.  The simple addition of a grounding wire from the frame of my Bosch belt sander to its DC outlet solved the static discharge problem when hooked up to my CT 22.

The ETS 150/3 is a great finishing sander, but likely not aggressive enough for the rough boards you are attempting to restore.

The RO 150 is the tool I would choose because it can be quite aggressive in its Rotex mode, and produce a very fine finish in its Random Orbit mode.  The RO 150 in Rotex mode is less aggressive and much more controllable than the belt sander and the angle sander, which is similar in its action to Festool's RAS, except for lack of dust collection.

Dave R.
 
So everyone seems to be recommending the RO150, which makes sense. Sort of.

The RO150 is $495. The RAS is $260. The ETS 150 is $285. If the RAS is better at aggressive stock removal than the RO and the ETS is better at finish sanding than the RO, wouldn't one be better served having the RAS+ETS for only $50 more than the RO?
 
You will spend at least twice as long with the RO than you would with the RAS.

Trust me, I know.  I bought the RO for stripping finishes, works just fine, takes a bit of time.

I bought the RAS, took about 25% as long I could run the material up to 80 with the RAS and then go over it with my RO, much better way.
 
If you would only use them in one place, say the shop or your home, your logic is very sound. If you want to be more mobile, like me, it's nice if you only have to take one sander with you.

Btw, you're lucky that the RAs is only 260 dollars for you. Here in The Netherlands it costs 413 euros. The Ro150 565 and the Ets150/3 354 euros. Here the difference between one or two machines would be over 200 euros.

 
Aegwyn11 said:
So everyone seems to be recommending the RO150, which makes sense. Sort of.

The RO150 is $495. The RAS is $260. The ETS 150 is $285. If the RAS is better at aggressive stock removal than the RO and the ETS is better at finish sanding than the RO, wouldn't one be better served having the RAS+ETS for only $50 more than the RO?

That's an interesting way of looking at it and probably not a bad idea. I have the RO125, ETS125 and 150/3, I tend to use the my Rotex much more for stock removal than finish sanding. The advantage the Rotex has over RAS/ETS is it's one tool, you can switch from aggressive stock remove to finish sanding with a flip of a switch. One tool in your hand while on a ladder, scaffold or narrow stairwell, no switching back and forth between sanders.

I recently sanded a set of basement stairs we installed, the clients insisted the stairs not be finished to save a little money. Against our better judgment we agreed. Well, two weeks later the steps were filthy and they wanted them cleaned up and urethaned. My Rotex made quick work of the job, 60 grit in rotatory then RO mode, 80 in RO and the corners quickly hit with the DTS. The ETS sanders were not aggressive enough to quickly cut through the ground in dirt, I bet the RAS would have been to aggressive leaving a deep scratch pattern in the soft pine stairs, the Rotex, perfect. I guess my point is that the Rotex sanders fill the gap between the RAS and ETS sanders as far a stock removal is concerned. If you want one sander that can do it all (or close it it all) the Rotex is the other sander that can do that.
 
It has been interesting reading all this.  I have the both the RAS and the Rotex 150.  I just loaned out my Rotex to my brother in law to sand a pressure treated deck.  Only 5 x 12 but still a pressure treated deck.  It worked great.  I personally think that I would have used the RAS.  It is a deck after all.  Not a piece of furniture - not a set of stairs.  Something that is exposed to the weather and birds and spills etc.

Dust collection is far better with the Rotex - but it is outdoors isn't it?  The Rotex is not as quick but is a perfect in between tool.  Sacrifice some time and gain adaptability in the future.  Or speed and free time to do other things.  Good luck with your decision.  I'd do the RAS.

Peter

 
hi, i think the RAS115 would be the fastest and most efficient way to do your project. i know i will be buying the RAS 180 when i get my next big contract.
however, i can justify spending over AU$1200 on the RAS180 because i will use it on a weekly basis. if you only need to do this project, the 3 inch makita belt sander is a great tool and using 40 grit belts first and then using 80 grits next, you will eat that deck up! then using a rotex 150 with 120grit and then 240 grit you will get a beautiful finish.
you have been given some great advice about the rotex and you should look seriously at this sander. i would recommend the 6 inch version. the 5 inch version is for chicks!
regards, justin.
 
Another + point with the rotex is it will do polishing also, basically giving you 3 machines in 1.  With regard to the extraction.  Some may think it is ok to sand a deck with no extraction but unless it is a windy day, you will still be breathing in some dust.  Also the discs or paper will last considerably longer with extraction.

Woodguy.
 
The point that the Rotex can do polishing is a very important point...my $50 price difference becomes a $250 price difference if you add a decent polisher into the equation.

The RAS is still very tempting as I'm sick of this project and like the idea of the speed the RAS would offer, but I don't know what use I'd get out of it after this. We live in a brand new house (no refinishing projects outside of the deck). Also, I'm planning on getting a jointer/planer for prepping wood to work on for furniture and built-in project, so wood will be clean before I really start working with it.

I'll likely be getting the RO150 and CT22 relatively soon. Thanks everyone for the input and opinions!
 
Aegwyn11 said:
The point that the Rotex can do polishing is a very important point...my $50 price difference becomes a $250 price difference if you add a decent polisher into the equation.

The RAS is still very tempting as I'm sick of this project and like the idea of the speed the RAS would offer, but I don't know what use I'd get out of it after this. We live in a brand new house (no refinishing projects outside of the deck). Also, I'm planning on getting a jointer/planer for prepping wood to work on for furniture and built-in project, so wood will be clean before I really start working with it.

I'll likely be getting the RO150 and CT22 relatively soon. Thanks everyone for the input and opinions!

If you like the RAS so much for this project, why not get it, use it and then sell it on E-Bay.  Those "idiots" on E-Bay will sometimes buy it for more than what you paid for it, plus pay the shipping.  But that's another story and has been covered by a previous thread in this forum

Neill.
 
justinmcf said:
you have been given some great advice about the rotex and you should look seriously at this sander. i would recommend the 6 inch version. the 5 inch version is for chicks!
regards, justin.

I often wondered, now I know why I bought the RO 150.  Thanks!!
 
Holy crap... I really, really, have to agree with the guy who said to hire a sander, or at least rent a professional grade sanding machine from the great orange Despot. If your deck is of a reasonable size, ie, big enough to be wonky in spots, and if it has some peaks and valleys, you really need something besides a 6" disc. A real floor sander has the weight you'll need to back up the power the job demands, the speed to make sure that the rental won't cost you TOO much, and the drum should be big enough to make sure that everything is properly leveled out. Leveling out a wonky deck with a rotary or orbital sander is really asking for trouble.

As a guy with a little experience to a DIY'er, seriously... you save more time and trouble using the right tool for the job. I can certainly relate to the urge to use this as an excuse to buy some nice german tools, but really... this is one of those times when you'll thank yourself, and your knees and back will thank you too.

Better to buy the rotex as a reward, than to buy it and expect that it's really the tool to level out a deck.
 
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