An amazing set of stairs

[nickao]

Rob I am not getting into it to much, but you are totally misguided in your attitude toward the CNC.

First, it is NOT faster, at least not for the initial design. Most small shops have no need for runs in the thousands(especially now) and most small shops actually use the CNC for tons of one off work. One piece can take 15 hours or more on a CNC. By hand maybe weeks or not possible at all by most people.

Second, there are loads of things you can never get done by hand or with small power tools in any reasonable amount of time or with as much beauty for that matter. Even if you are a sculptor it would be tough to do what the CNC can do for you. Think 3D like a head bust, carvings, chess pieces, appliques and ornamentation for furniture etc. Cabinet carcasses are so dam boring, once you have made a ton of cabinets its no fun so you can always cut up the plywood with the CNC as well. The possibilities are endless.

If you ever get into CNC you will see that it is VERY artistic and takes a lot of thinking out of the box. It is a great tool for any shop and once you really use and or make a machine and learn the software most likely you could never live without it again. If you think it is pressing a few buttons and out comes an item you are way off, it is a TON of work and a large learning curve, even more than most shop tools. Some say software programming is an art just like using a CNC can be an art form as well, depending on how one uses it.

CNC in a small home shop is here and here to stay and is a great tool to have.

It seems it is just like the argument of hand dovetails vs using a router, this is the next step in the progression, small power tools to the CNC.

If this was a CNC forum I could really get into projects and what it takes to use a CNC, but there are plenty of CNC forums so for anyone that is interested just Google or message me.

Just think of a CNC machine like your table saw, just another machine to help get the work done in a fun efficient manner. It does not replace any tool, but can complement all the tools in your shop and complement them well!

 

[Deansocial]

I'm glad open stairs are allowed here because I wouldn't want to have to remove my attic stairs right now.  ;D

As for the project above, the curves look real nice but I find the total not so beautiful and it doesn't look practical at all. I think if you'd go up that stairs all day you'd make a wrong step at some point and might get hurt. Knowing how it's made, I also wouldn't trust it, with everything just being glued together. How is that gonna stay sturdy over the years?

Nice as an art project, but this thing would never get into my house.

you dont trust the glue??  what about glulam building ext, dont you trust them either

 

[CNC Paul]

Rob I am not getting into it to much, but you are totally misguided in your attitude toward the CNC.

First, it is NOT faster, at least not for the initial design. Most small shops have no need for runs in the thousands(especially now) and most small shops actually use the CNC for tons of one off work. One piece can take 15 hours or more on a CNC. By hand maybe weeks or not possible at all by most people.

Second, there are loads of things you can never get done by hand or with small power tools in any reasonable amount of time or with as much beauty for that matter. Even if you are a sculptor it would be tough to do what the CNC can do for you. Think 3D like a head bust, carvings, chess pieces, appliques and ornamentation for furniture etc. Cabinet carcasses are so dam boring, once you have made a ton of cabinets its no fun so you can always cut up the plywood with the CNC as well. The possibilities are endless.

If you ever get into CNC you will see that it is VERY artistic and takes a lot of thinking out of the box. It is a great tool for any shop and once you really use and or make a machine and learn the software most likely you could never live without it again. If you think it is pressing a few buttons and out comes an item you are way off, it is a TON of work and a large learning curve, even more than most shop tools. Some say software programming is an art just like using a CNC can be an art form as well, depending on how one uses it.

CNC in a small home shop is here and here to stay and is a great tool to have.

It seems it is just like the argument of hand dovetails vs using a router, this is the next step in the progression, small power tools to the CNC.

If this was a CNC forum I could really get into projects and what it takes to use a CNC, but there are plenty of CNC forums so for anyone that is interested just Google or message me.

Just think of a CNC machine like your table saw, just another machine to help get the work done in a fun efficient manner. It does not replace any tool, but can complement all the tools in your shop and complement them well!

I have to agree with everything Nick has said.

Rob you have to open your mind to the possibilities of CNC, I work on my own with a CNC router...it is the best assistant I have ever had, never comes in late or throws a sicky.  There are times when a CNC cannot replicate the beauty of hand carving, there is a group of Inuit's that carve gifts for tourists but they cannot keep up with the sales so they bought a CNC to rough carve the gifts and then just fine detail them by hand. While I do things that I enjoy my CNC does a lot of boring stuff like cabinet parts with all the holes for screws and fitting quicker and far more accurate than I could.

Paul

 

[AlexThePalex]

I'm glad open stairs are allowed here because I wouldn't want to have to remove my attic stairs right now.  ;D

As for the project above, the curves look real nice but I find the total not so beautiful and it doesn't look practical at all. I think if you'd go up that stairs all day you'd make a wrong step at some point and might get hurt. Knowing how it's made, I also wouldn't trust it, with everything just being glued together. How is that gonna stay sturdy over the years?

Nice as an art project, but this thing would never get into my house.

you dont trust the glue??  what about glulam building ext, dont you trust them either

I didn't say I don't trust glue in general. I said I don't trust it in this case, all those small pieces glued together. If I have to put my weight on something for years to come, I prefer it to be made in the traditional way, strong one piece threads securely joined to and locked in the surrounding wall pieces. If somebody wants to get all artsy pantsy in their design, fine by me, but I'm not gonna walk on the Mona Lisa either.

 

[harry_]

Then they can alter/replace the stair. Things are designed with the current occupier in mind not who will occupy it in ten or fifty years hence. Our standard regs echo yours, however, we also have a lot of provisions in place so do not restrict inventive design when justified.
Many people here think the same as you Nickao, the main rules state  'X' so that's all we can do. Part of the solution here is due to history, if replacing like for like in an old property or listed one, the current regulations are kicked into touch, they no longer apply for that project. And thankfully there are more foresighted provisions.
As for CNC it has it's place but is not the start and end of inventive, artistic design solutions. I cannot think of a job a CNC machine can do that cannot be done any other way, faster, yes, less labour intensive , yes, monotonous boring repetitive jobs, yes. But, not any that can not be done another way.
I am willing to be enlightened if I am incorrect.

Rob I am not getting into it to much, but you are totally misguided in your attitude toward the CNC.

First, it is NOT faster, at least not for the initial design. Most small shops have no need for runs in the thousands(especially now) and most small shops actually use the CNC for tons of one off work. One piece can take 15 hours or more on a CNC. By hand maybe weeks or not possible at all by most people.

Second, there are loads of things you can never get done by hand or with small power tools in any reasonable amount of time or with as much beauty for that matter. Even if you are a sculptor it would be tough to do what the CNC can do for you. Think 3D like a head bust, carvings, chess pieces, appliques and ornamentation for furniture etc. Cabinet carcasses are so dam boring, once you have made a ton of cabinets its no fun so you can always cut up the plywood with the CNC as well. The possibilities are endless.

If you ever get into CNC you will see that it is VERY artistic and takes a lot of thinking out of the box. It is a great tool for any shop and once you really use and or make a machine and learn the software most likely you could never live without it again. If you think it is pressing a few buttons and out comes an item you are way off, it is a TON of work and a large learning curve, even more than most shop tools. Some say software programming is an art just like using a CNC can be an art form as well, depending on how one uses it.

CNC in a small home shop is here and here to stay and is a great tool to have.

It seems it is just like the argument of hand dovetails vs using a router, this is the next step in the progression, small power tools to the CNC.

If this was a CNC forum I could really get into projects and what it takes to use a CNC, but there are plenty of CNC forums so for anyone that is interested just Google or message me.

Just think of a CNC machine like your table saw, just another machine to help get the work done in a fun efficient manner. It does not replace any tool, but can complement all the tools in your shop and complement them well!

I have to agree with everything Nick has said.

Rob you have to open your mind to the possibilities of CNC, I work on my own with a CNC router...it is the best assistant I have ever had, never comes in late or throws a sicky.  There are times when a CNC cannot replicate the beauty of hand carving, there is a group of Inuit's that carve gifts for tourists but they cannot keep up with the sales so they bought a CNC to rough carve the gifts and then just fine detail them by hand. While I do things that I enjoy my CNC does a lot of boring stuff like cabinet parts with all the holes for screws and fitting quicker and far more accurate than I could.

Paul

Nick and Paul If I may interject.....

I took a different point entirely from what Rob had to say. What I got from his comment is that CNC is not the be all to end all. That virtually everything if not in fact everything, that can be done with a CNC can be done by another method or methods, however impractical (time-wise) those means may be.

CNC is a very nice, but rather expensive option to ones tooling arsenal. As you said, the learning curve is quite steep. Without a doubt there are many nice things that can be done via CNC. However that does not mean that they cannot be done without. The question is would you want to.

CNC make me think along the lines of autocad/sketchup vs. old school t-squares and triangles. I can guarantee you that for my average project I can get it on paper quicker with a pencil & a ruler than I can with any CAD program. As I climb the slope of the CAD learning curve this may not always be the case in the future. May point being, give me enough pencils, paper & erasers and I can still get it done and I took it as the point that Rob was trying to make.

Rob, please correct me, if I too missed your point.

 

[nickao]

Well we are straying off topic a bit, but I can say for anyone with a Festool shop CNC is not expensive at all. For 2000.00 you can get in no problem. 2000.00 does not buy many Festools at all.

If you do your research you can build one for maybe 1500.00 and for 3500.00 to 4000.00 you can have a retail 15,000.00 machine.

My point is that if you stick with the paper and pencil you will be left behind and are limiting yourself a whole bunch. With little machines like the Carvewright new model(the old model sucked) more and more people are going to have in house CNC. And it is fun and fulfilling and can make any good project a great project.

And yes, CNC is not just for speed you can get many things done faster without it, especially at first.

 

[Rob-GB]

Harry_,

You did not miss my point. If the others re-read what I actually posted without getting all protective about CNC they would understand too.
I have nothing against CNC, at all. I just think that too many people see it as a solution to all.

I use Autocad day to day for my design work, my avatar is a case in point, but I learnt to draw on a drawing board. If need be I would use the drawing board again, I don't have a problem with it.

My brother, who got me into cad, uses CNC machines all the time in his work making tooling for the plastic injection moulding industry, with tolerances to make your head swim. He still does a fair bit of his work with non CNC machinery, a case of what best expedites the contract.

My original point was that those stairs, made with hand power tools, are a testament to what can be achieved without the reliance on CNC machinery, and the inventiveness of the man who produced them. Not a point of argument over what is best!

Regards Rob.

 

[nickao]

I did not get protective at all and you still do not get it.

The CNC your brother does is NOTHING like a home woodworker or small shop would do or even need.

Plain and simple I believe we are talking about totally different animals here. Reliance on CNC is not an issue at all as CNC can not make a project but only make pieces of the project at best.

I think  many, many think it is over kill as I get from your example of your brothers work, but for the small woodworker it is a totally different thing. No one can rely on CNC exclusively its impossible. And I never ever said that it is the end all and never even remotely expressed that. I have constantly said it is just another tool for your shop.

My point is every small woodworker should look into it and consider it as a tool.

I can remember when guys laughed at me for getting a drum sander saying a home woodworker doesn't need that. I also remember so many laughing at the cost of Festools, how times have changed.

In 10 years I bet almost every home woodworker has a CNC machine in their arsenal so the sooner you get into it the better.

Yes these stairs are nice, but ugly as sin and I don't see how a CNC would help in the application at all. Those pretty much have to be done the way he showed.

I do have another comment.

If the best woodworkers 200 years ago had access to a CNC you bet they would have used them, just like they would have used any power tools we have to day. Hey you don't have to do anything or ever use a CNC, but if it makes the work more fun, faster, easier and smarter, why not. It is no different than using a Domino to get an old job done a new way.

This is more like the software a woodworker would use:

http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/aspire/aspire_index.html

http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/pvc/pvc_index.htm

http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/cut3d/c3d_index.htm

Here are some neat woodworking projects done with the software. As you can see most of the work really is traditional small power tool work.

http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/gallery/index.htm#/content/1_Aspire/

 

[Rob-GB]

Harry_,

You did not miss my point. If the others re-read what I actually posted without getting all protective about CNC they would understand too.
I have nothing against CNC, at all. I just think that too many people see it as a solution to all.

I use Autocad day to day for my design work, my avatar is a case in point, but I learnt to draw on a drawing board. If need be I would use the drawing board again, I don't have a problem with it.

My brother, who got me into cad, uses CNC machines all the time in his work making tooling for the plastic injection moulding industry, with tolerances to make your head swim. He still does a fair bit of his work with non CNC machinery, a case of what best expedites the contract.

My original point was that those stairs, made with hand power tools, are a testament to what can be achieved without the reliance on CNC machinery, and the inventiveness of the man who produced them. Not a point of argument over what is best!

Regards Rob.

Please read my post!