Another alternative make for guide rail lever clamps. QWORK.

[demographic]

Spotted these on UK Amazon site.
I bought two, they seem fine to me after a few uses I've bought another two.
They don't have a stop on them so its possible to strip them and put the clamp through a narrower hole than usual but it would be possible to put a small bolt through the hole in the end to act as a stop so they can't coma apart.
Here they are.
Click here.

The ratchetting mechanism has more teeth than the Bessey clamp I have (which as far as I know is the same as the Festool lever clamps) and so far they work well.
Oh and the QWORK clamps fit into the festool guiderail, I've used them in the rail.

Oh and I have four Festool screw clamps, two of them slip in use, I'll not buy any more of those.

 

[JonathanJung]

Everything is cheaper when made in a country that doesn't care about human rights, pollution, and freedom.

 

[wpz]

These are the Chinese copies of the Bessey GTR16S6H.

They are also sold under other brand names such as DICTUM, JUUMA, AXMINSTER, ...
I own 2 of the Juuma and 1 Axminster one, they are OK quality, just a little bit shorter than the Besseys.

The price difference between the Besseys and the chinese copies is very small though, I have bought the Bessey ones for 29,5€ a piece and the Juuma for 27,90€ a piece. (the axminster ones are actually more expensive than the original)
So for less than 2€ difference I now go for the originals which I believe are made in Germany.

wpz

 

[daz9100]

Also available on Banggood a lot cheaper
https://www.banggood.com/Drillpro-Q...stem-Woodworking-DIY-Hand-Tool-p-1787989.html

 

[demographic]

Everything is cheaper when made in a country that doesn't care about human rights, pollution, and freedom.

America? Wow.

They were 24 quid each, and the Bessey one I have was 33 quid or so.
Thats a fair difference, you either want to buy em or you don't, I'm ok with that.
I wanted several clamps(so far I have four of these) and and the price adds up if I bought the Bessey or Festool lever clamps.
I'm not giving a price for the Festool screwclamps cos I don't know anyone I dislike enough to give them to.
There has been a few people on here asking about alternative clamps and some have made multifunction slabs an inch thick then had problems getting their clamps through the holes.
These clamps can be taken apart with ease and put through the holes from the bottom if needed.
The people who required that unique solution are welcome by the way.  [smile]

 

[ChuckM]

These clamps can be taken apart with ease and put through the holes from the bottom if needed.
The people who required that unique solution are welcome by the way.  [smile]

I ground the little tabs off my Festool clamps, and use binder clips to keep the heads from falling out. Holes on my workbench are drilled for use with holdfasts, etc., smaller than those on an MFT.

As long as the copies are not an infringement of patents, I'm ok with imported goods.

P.S. Banggood -- Don't open an account with it if you don't plan to buy anything. I opened one, but didn't find what I needed. But they wouldn't let you go, and kept bombarding you with spam/ads. Unsubscribing did nothing. Luckily, I had used one of those dormant hotmail accounts, and simply disabled the "Forwarding" function. This bad experience convinced me not to shop there.

I only use my "real" email account when dealing with reputable vendors like Grainger, Lee Valley, and the like which don't spam you.

 

[demographic]

These clamps can be taken apart with ease and put through the holes from the bottom if needed.
The people who required that unique solution are welcome by the way.  [smile]

I ground the little tabs off my Festool clamps, and use binder clips to keep the heads from falling out. Holes on my workbench are drilled for use with holdfasts, etc., smaller than those on an MFT.

As long as the copies are not an infringement of patents, I'm ok with imported goods.

P.S. Banggood -- Don't open an account with it if you don't plan to buy anything. I opened one, but didn't find what I needed. But they wouldn't let you go, and kept bombarding you with spam/ads. Unsubscribing did nothing. Luckily, I had used one of those dormant hotmail accounts, and simply disabled the "Forwarding" function. This bad experience convinced me not to shop there.

I only use my "real" email account when dealing with reputable vendors like Grainger, Lee Valley, and the like which don't spam you.

Thanks for that, I remember someone saying they'd ground the little tab off their clamps, could have been your post I remember.
Oh and yeah, I keep seeing things on Banggood but don't fancy signing up to even more companies e-mails.
Ebay and Amazon are bad enough as it is.

I bought my clamps on Amazon and no doubt paid a premium for them compared to Banggood, they were still almost a tenner cheaper than the Bessey one I have.
They're not an exact copy either, they don't have the little plastic pad that the Bessey one has (Boo!) but they have more teeth on the ratchetting mechanism which I actually prefer.

If I only wanted two of these then the cost savings arent much to write home about but I feel that woodworkers in general always want more clamps and personally I don't have too much spare change ratting around in the old sofa so if I can get something I want lots of as good but cheaper I'm on it.

Initially I bought two, thinking that if thy were crap i didn't have too much money lost, then after using them a few times I've bought another two and might get some more at some point, assuming all of these behave as they should.

 

[FestitaMakool]

So, how about $70 for a Bessey quick ratchet clamp, $63 for the Festool version.
Then over here one can talk about saving on copy cats.. Still I buy the standard screw version as I prefer these. In Bessey color they are $18..
On the local market place here they’re trying to get $150 a pair, NIB, but still private sales..

I don’t get that Axminster are selling knock offs.. Axminster have gone more and more over to private label tools. I like supporting the original maker if possible, within limits on the price.

Dictum in Germany sell Japanese saws made by Gyokucho, under their own name, Dictum. They still have Gyokucho stamped on the steel blade - discrete, but visible. They have made versions to their own specifications, handles and such. Pricing is still competitive - good move and work.
I’ll buy from Dictum just for that transparency. Rutlands in UK also sell Gyokucho, as well as a couple of shops locally, pricing is very similar, and sensible. Very good.
Fun is that Hultafors in Sweden have made a knock off of Gyokucho, no Japanese blade, heavier and $20 more - Should have been $15 less, I’d still get the right thing for $15 more.

 

[mino]

So, how about $70 for a Bessey quick ratchet clamp, $63 for the Festool version.
Then over here one can talk about saving on copy cats.. Still I buy the standard screw version as I prefer these. In Bessey color they are $18..
On the local market place here they’re trying to get $150 a pair, NIB, but still private sales..

I don’t get that Axminster are selling knock offs.. Axminster have gone more and more over to private label tools. I like supporting the original maker if possible, within limits on the price.

Dictum in Germany sell Japanese saws made by Gyokucho, under their own name, Dictum. They still have Gyokucho stamped on the steel blade - discrete, but visible. They have made versions to their own specifications, handles and such. Pricing is still competitive - good move and work.
I’ll buy from Dictum just for that transparency. Rutlands in UK also sell Gyokucho, as well as a couple of shops locally, pricing is very similar, and sensible. Very good.
Fun is that Hultafors in Sweden have made a knock off of Gyokucho, no Japanese blade, heavier and $20 more - Should have been $15 less, I’d still get the right thing for $15 more.

I believe the Festool clamps are made by Bessey to begin. Would not be surprised if were even designed under a Festool commission. Not so sure the "copycat" applies there.

I do not have a problem with other companies copying an idea. Once patents expire /or if it does not apply directly/ e.g. the Benchdogs squares versus TSO etc.

I do have a problem with someone copying a design right down to a millimeter as that just pure and ugly "quick buck" leeching. This case being the latter. It simply stinks. No thanks.

 

[cubevandude]

For Maktia fans: Makita 199826-6 Quick-Release Ratcheting Guide Rail Clamp Sethttps://www.atlas-machinery.com/makita/199826-6/https://ibb.co/s1hVmqW

 

[FestitaMakool]

No, I didn’t think Festool copied Bessey, they are most likely produced by Bessey for Festool.
Copy of ideas is nothing new, but these clamps, if not made on licence from Bessey are copy’s.
It’s ok to collect ideas from others, but why not claim your own design, improving for example?

There have been examples of products improving “old” designs, and that has made a success over the “original” design. I’ve had Bessey Click clamp (not the rail compatible ones) and while the idea is good, the design and ease of use blemishes after a few trials in my experience.

I just saw the Makita ones the other day, fresh in at a pro-dealer. Makita also have the old screw type, with chunky plastic handles instead of painted wooden ones as Festool and Bessey.

 

[demographic]

So, how about $70 for a Bessey quick ratchet clamp, $63 for the Festool version.
Then over here one can talk about saving on copy cats.. Still I buy the standard screw version as I prefer these. In Bessey color they are $18..
On the local market place here they’re trying to get $150 a pair, NIB, but still private sales..

I don’t get that Axminster are selling knock offs.. Axminster have gone more and more over to private label tools. I like supporting the original maker if possible, within limits on the price.

Dictum in Germany sell Japanese saws made by Gyokucho, under their own name, Dictum. They still have Gyokucho stamped on the steel blade - discrete, but visible. They have made versions to their own specifications, handles and such. Pricing is still competitive - good move and work.
I’ll buy from Dictum just for that transparency. Rutlands in UK also sell Gyokucho, as well as a couple of shops locally, pricing is very similar, and sensible. Very good.
Fun is that Hultafors in Sweden have made a knock off of Gyokucho, no Japanese blade, heavier and $20 more - Should have been $15 less, I’d still get the right thing for $15 more.

I believe the Festool clamps are made by Bessey to begin. Would not be surprised if were even designed under a Festool commission. Not so sure the "copycat" applies there.

I do not have a problem with other companies copying an idea. Once patents expire /or if it does not apply directly/ e.g. the Benchdogs squares versus TSO etc.

I do have a problem with someone copying a design right down to a millimeter as that just pure and ugly "quick buck" leeching. This case being the latter. It simply stinks. No thanks.

Err, I've already said that these clamps are NOT total copies.take a look at them, try it with your eyes open that usually helps.
They are different from the Bessey lever clamp I have.
The Bessey clamps are however the same as the Festool ones and I suspect Bessey make the clamps for Festool

Oh and just supposing they were a direct copy? Is the patent still running? Were they copyrighted?
Thats the legal part.

You don't want to buy them? Dont, but get your facts straight before you launch on one eh?

 

[mino]

Err, I've already said that these clamps are NOT total copies.take a look at them, try it with your eyes open that usually helps.
They are different from the Bessey lever clamp I have.
The Bessey clamps are however the same as the Festool ones and I suspect Bessey make the clamps for Festool

Oh and just supposing they were a direct copy? Is the patent still running? Were they copyrighted?
Thats the legal part.

You don't want to buy them? Dont, but get your facts straight before you launch on one eh?

Apologies if it was taken as "launching on you" - or anyone on this forum.

My comment was solely on the "makers" of these.

And sorry. No. Not being able to copy something "exactly" so there are minute differences is not a valid excuse for such folks. Not by a long shot.

It actually makes it worse. The small differences are what makes it unlikely these are a lower price Bessey OEM or licensed copies.

 

[demographic]

I have a Festooll HKC, its not a direct copy of one that Mafell make but lets face it, they will have been heavily influenced by the design before festool made one.
Makita make a plungesaw, who here thinks they didn't look at Festools TS55 (which I also have by the way) before they made their saw? It even fits on Festools rails.

Anyone here have a Wilton bulllet vise? The man who started Wilton came from Czechoslovakia (not sure thats spelled right cos lets face it, I don't have to even say that word often)  and totally ripped off a Czech manufacturers design

When I was working in France, near enough every builders merchants had a big version of clamps that slid along the bar like the Festool/Bessey/Makita rail clamps do.

So are we all going to launch our Festool HKCs, Makita guiderail saws if we have one, our Wilton Bullet Vises into the nearest skip?

Right, the clamps that arent a direct copy? Yeah, thats an issue...are we annoyed about the rail connectors made by another manufacturer but still fit our Festool rails?
Lets not even mention how cars have basically all ended up very similar in design, that didn't happen in a vacuum did it?
Unitary load bearing body? Lancia Lambda.
Independent suspension? Lancia Lambda.
Shock Absorbers on a car? Lan... oh, you get the drift don't you?
People look at others designs and improve on them, thats how it works. Sometimes its leaps forwards but most of the time its like evolution and incremental.

I'm not saying people should buy the clamps, just giving people another viable option that offers an advantage here and a disadvantage there.
They slide off the main bar, pro and con.
They have nine ratchetting teeth instead of the six my Bessey one has, I think thats a pro.
They don't have a little plastic pad for one jaw, I think thats a con.
They're a bit cheaper, Pro.
Dunno if they'll last as long, I'll come back to this thread in a couple of years (or if they break sooner than that Ill post it whenever that is) and give an honest long term review.

The design is close to Bessey/Festools lever clamps, Lancia Lambda 

 

[ChuckM]

They have nine ratchetting teeth instead of the six my Bessey one has, I think thats a pro.

Anyone who has used the Festool's often enough can't argue with that. Sometimes, it's either too loose or too tight (esp. on softwood), given the smaller number of teeth.

 

[FestitaMakool]

They have nine ratchetting teeth instead of the six my Bessey one has, I think thats a pro.

Anyone who has used the Festool's often enough can't argue with that. Sometimes, it's either too loose or too tight (esp. on softwood), given the smaller number of teeth.

Screw clamps?  [big grin]

 

[mino]

They have nine ratchetting teeth instead of the six my Bessey one has, I think thats a pro.

Sorry, missed this one.
Thought is was the same teeth just one more not different size/distance.

That would be indeed positive with a likely effect on longevity if a higher quality material is not used.

Anyone who has used the Festool's often enough can't argue with that. Sometimes, it's either too loose or too tight (esp. on softwood), given the smaller number of teeth.

Screw clamps?  [big grin]
[/quote]
Yep.

IMO the ratchet system gives the quick & strong of the triangle while the screw ones with a linear increase in pressure give the delicate and strong points on the properties triangle. I do not believe one can have delicate linear pressure increase at same time as quick clamping while giving high strength. Seems to me you can have any two from these, but not all.

The closest is probably a permanently connected big pressure spreader on the quick clamp to compensate the roughness.

Maybe someone will make a quick and strong with fine adjustment clamp with some electronics motor with a pressure sensor on though. Do not believe such is possible with pure mechanical approach - to be all of single-movement quick, full-range controllable and high-pressure capable.

 

[mrboult]

I use these. . . Best by far in terms of rail clamping.



Cheapest (not quite as good quality plastic or quite as long:https://www.axminstertools.com/axmi...dium=affiliates&utm_content=1795&glCountry=GB

Better ones:https://www.sphinxindustrial.co.uk/ProductGrp/001c000e0001

Better ones (US LINK):https://go2toolz.com/product/piher-mini-quick-t-track/

 

[mino]

I use these. . . Best by far in terms of rail clamping.
Cheapest (not quite as good quality plastic or quite as long:https://www.axminstertools.com/axmi...dium=affiliates&utm_content=1795&glCountry=GB

Better ones:https://www.sphinxindustrial.co.uk/ProductGrp/001c000e0001

Better ones (US LINK):https://go2toolz.com/product/piher-mini-quick-t-track/

Nice.
Though 600N/130lb is about 5x less force than the ratchet clamps provide.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have never had the Festool screw clamps slip. I have never even heard of that? I have been using both sizes of them for years with no problems at all. I have had the ratchet style ones make dents/impressions, but no slipping from any of them.