Another driving near mishaap

[Michael Kellough]

[member=25351]rst[/member], you are an interesting guy...

 

[rst]

No, just old enough to have had a lot of experience at a lot of things.  Older than dirt and twice as dumb!

 

[Mario Turcot]

but both insurance companies asked how close we were to the car in front of us.  Evidently you're supposed to leave a good distance between you and the car in front of you when you stop at a red light.  I wanna say they said something like 1 whole car length

At a red light I use that simple rule: Must see the ground behind the tire of the previous car. So it also depend on how tall you are, a 5'5" person will have to be at least ~15' (compact car length) from the previous car. I never measured it but I'm 6' and I stand at about 10'. Another thing to consider is how the traffic use to be at the traffic light. Heavy or light traffic, it's a good indication for me to extend the distance a little more if it's heavy. The higher traffic the higher the chance people will bump in you at a greater speed.

Here in Ottawa we have what i call the Orange Cone Syndrome. Those drivers that believe other cars are in fact orange cones and zig-zag their way to be ahead of everyone. In that case depending of the speed I tend to keep less or more distance between me and the previous car. In 43 years of driving, I have been in 5 accidents. Every time I got hit from any possible angle  [scared]

 

[peter halle]

Eons ago, before the days of cell phones (B.C.P), I was sitting at a traffic light with no one in front of me in my 4 x 4 Toyota Pickup when I was rear ended by a driver.  After getting out and looking at the damage - mostly on his car which had slipped under my truck and hit the spare tire - we exchanged insurance information and waited for the police to show up.  It talking with him he had been in a hurry and was checking the phone number that had popped up on his pager.  He repeatedly asked the police to speed up writing the report because he had an important presentation to give at the Virginia Insurance Commission on the increasing number of accidents being attributed to distracted drivers.

I had to chuckle.

Peter

 

[Bob Marino]

I got myself a dash cam after we got rear ended and sandwiched in the middle sitting at a stop light in October 2015.  We obviously were not at fault as we were completely stopped, but both insurance companies asked how close we were to the car in front of us.  Evidently you're supposed to leave a good distance between you and the car in front of you when you stop at a red light.  I wanna say they said something like 1 whole car length - I kept thinking to myself NOBODY leaves that much space in between when stopped at a light.

It's good piece of mind for me having the dash cam.  I haven't really caught anything really super spectacular, nor have I had to use it as evidence for an accident that I have been in (knock on wood).  I did manage to record a motorcycle wipe out (I believe he hit some gravel, but I'm not 100% sure what happened):=40s.

You know how everyone says: "it's the other guy that you gotta watch out for" - well I guess I am that other guy  [embarassed].  I managed to record a very near miss of my own.  Pretty embarrassing as I was going to way too fast for the conditions and hit some slush.  I like to share the video now as a PSA.  I was extremely lucky to not have rammed straight into the wall or have someone collide with me because of my own stupidity:

As for ladder stories and objects in the road, one morning on the way to work I managed to drive over a ladder that had fallen off of a truck on the highway.  It was pretty early in the morning so it was still dark.  I don't think it was really possible for me to see such a flat object in the roadway ahead of time.  By the time I saw it, it was too late to swerve so all I could do is run over it.  Luckily it was just an aluminum ladder and it looked like it had already been run over a few times.  The aluminum just crushed under the tires without hurting the tires or the car.  The owner of said ladder had pulled his van or truck over on the shoulder a ways up and it looked like he was going to attempt to retrieve the ladder.  Thinking about it - trying to pull something off of, even the right lane of a highway is extremely dangerous.

I bet that sliding around shook you a bit. Besides paying attention and keeping proper distance, my other biggie is good tires - properly inflated. I have dedicated snow tires and have them on from December through March - in snow/slush/ice there is a noticeable difference in handling and stopping distance.

 

[GoingMyWay]

It really scared me!  I remember just more or less holding on for dear life, fully prepared/expecting to hit the wall.  Somehow the dash cam footage doesn't really do the event justice - I guess as is with most things, actually experiencing it is much more impactful and terrifying than what the video often shows.

It barely snows here in the DC metro area so there's not really a need for snow tires.  I also have no place to store the all season tires if I switched them.  I tried to find some place that could store the extra set of tires, but I was unable to find anywhere.

My AWD SUV came with Continental tires that I'm not all that impressed with.  There have been several occasions where I have lost traction just traveling on wet roads.  I plan on replacing the Continentals with Michelins whenever these wear out.  That's going to be an expensive bill that I'm not looking forward to.

 

[semenza]

I bet that sliding around shook you a bit. Besides paying attention and keeping proper distance, my other biggie is good tires - properly inflated. I have dedicated snow tires and have them on from December through March - in snow/slush/ice there is a noticeable difference in handling and stopping distance.

Yes, All Season tires are a compromise for all seasons. Great for summer and wet roads but snow / winter tires are definitely better for snow, slush, and ice. I don't know if any areas really use "summer tires" anymore (unless for something special) but I bet, if developed to the same degree as all seasons have been, they would be better on dry warm roads than all seasons.

Seth

 

[Bob Marino]

It really scared me!  I remember just more or less holding on for dear life, fully prepared/expecting to hit the wall.  Somehow the dash cam footage doesn't really do the event justice - I guess as is with most things, actually experiencing it is much more impactful and terrifying than what the video often shows.

It barely snows here in the DC metro area so there's not really a need for snow tires.  I also have no place to store the all season tires if I switched them.  I tried to find some place that could store the extra set of tires, but I was unable to find anywhere.

My AWD SUV came with Continental tires that I'm not all that impressed with.  There have been several occasions where I have lost traction just traveling on wet roads.  I plan on replacing the Continentals with Michelins whenever these wear out.  That's going to be an expensive bill that I'm not looking forward to.

I replaced my Conti's with Michelin Super Sports - handling particularly on wet roads was way more secure.

 

[Bob Marino]

I bet that sliding around shook you a bit. Besides paying attention and keeping proper distance, my other biggie is good tires - properly inflated. I have dedicated snow tires and have them on from December through March - in snow/slush/ice there is a noticeable difference in handling and stopping distance.

Yes, All Season tires are a compromise for all seasons. Great for summer and wet roads but snow / winter tires are definitely better for snow, slush, and ice. I don't know if any areas really use "summer tires" anymore (unless for something special) but I bet, if developed to the same degree as all seasons have been, they would be better on dry warm roads than all seasons.

Seth

Seth,

Many cars - particularly the sportier, performance cars offered for sale in the southern states come with summer tires. Summer tires when the temps drops to the 40's and below are downright dangerous.

 

[GoingMyWay]

My old car (the one that got totaled when I was sandwiched in 2015) came with summer tires.  When I first got the car, the dealer warned me to be careful driving with them when the road was just wet from rain.

 

[RKA]

In goingmyway's video you can see slush kicked up when he hit that patch where the left lane was suddenly obscured by snow/slush.  This is the winter equivalent of hydroplaning.  Snow tires might have helped a bit, but in all likelihood the outcome would have been similar.  Tires ride up over the top of the slush.  If he knew that lane was going to disappear, the only good solution in this case is speed (or less of it).

The confusing part of selecting tires that nobody really addresses is that the offerings are grouped into several categories in an attempt to simplify the choices.  The reality is there is a continuous spectrum of choices like sanding grits.  Choosing a make a model that uniquely satisfies your requirements isn't easy.  But some people aren't particular either, so they can resort to the broad categories and just pick one from there, as long as you understand what you're getting.  Every tire below is a compromise in some way. 

High performance summers - can lose grip easily when temps fall below 40F, moreso when you add moisture.  Really good wet and dry grip in warm weather, but they can wear out in 20-30K miles.
High performance all seasons - tend to maintain a reasonable level of traction below freezing but not well suited for snow and ice, unless it's the slushy kind that just pushes away as the tire rolls over the pavement.  Once the snow sticks you'll find they don't work well.
All Seasons - more consistent performance across the seasons, but typically don't match the wet and dry traction of the high performance tires in warm weather.  Also can't compete with winters on snow and useless on ice.  This is the one size fits all we have been sold since the 80's.
High performance winters - slightly worse wet and dry traction compared to all seasons, better snow performance and some traction on ice.
Winter tires - wet and dry traction is good below 40F, as you get over 60F they can get greasy and noisy and may wear faster.  Snow traction is terrific if you've never tried them and many will offer usable traction on ice as well.  There is a steep tradeoff in handling with some of these, they can make any car feel like a 1985 chevy caprice. 

Finally, realize that all tires change their characteristics as they age (heat cycles).  Typically their wet traction goes down and so does their snow and ice traction.  So it's not just the depth of the grooves that determine how they will perform.  I've tossed out tires with 50% of their tread left because the wet traction went in the toilet.  In one case I lent a car to a friend and warned him the tires still had lots of tread but I noticed the wet traction deteriorating.  He totalled the car the next morning...in the rain. 

I've been using winter tires for over 20 years in NJ.  I started down that path after trying to take a car with high performance all seasons down a steep hill covered in snow.  The car was new to me at that time and I assumed all seasons meant it was the equivalent of every other car I had driven previous.  Nope.  Despite taking adequate cautions going down that hill, the ABS kicked on fairly early and momentum carried me down the hill, through the stop sign and out into the middle of the main road.  All season my a**!  There was nothing I could have done to get down that hill safely with those tires on. 

Now, if there is someone that says "I've been driving for 40+ years and just use the tires on the car, just slow down!".  Do you wear your dress shoes out in the snow?  You could, but even if you walk slowly, it's a pain in the butt.  If you're going to do it frequently, it's a lot less stressful to put on the right gear and you're much less prone to injury. 

 

[semenza]

I have been using Blizzack DM-V2 for quite a few years now on two vehicles (pick up and SUV). On second set for each. Best thing I have had for all types of winter roads.

Seth

 

[Sparktrician]

I have been using Blizzack DM-V2 for quite a few years now on two vehicles (pick up and SUV). On second set for each. Best thing I have had for all types of winter roads.

Seth

Concur wholeheartedly!  I've had Blizzak WS70s on my AWD Subaru as winter tires since the first winter after I bought it.  Can't say enough good for them. 

 

[Bob Marino]

Agree with the Blizzaks - have them on both our cars.

 

[Bob Marino]

In goingmyway's video you can see slush kicked up when he hit that patch where the left lane was suddenly obscured by snow/slush.  This is the winter equivalent of hydroplaning.  Snow tires might have helped a bit, but in all likelihood the outcome would have been similar.  Tires ride up over the top of the slush.  If he knew that lane was going to disappear, the only good solution in this case is speed (or less of it).

The confusing part of selecting tires that nobody really addresses is that the offerings are grouped into several categories in an attempt to simplify the choices.  The reality is there is a continuous spectrum of choices like sanding grits.  Choosing a make a model that uniquely satisfies your requirements isn't easy.  But some people aren't particular either, so they can resort to the broad categories and just pick one from there, as long as you understand what you're getting.  Every tire below is a compromise in some way. 

High performance summers - can lose grip easily when temps fall below 40F, moreso when you add moisture.  Really good wet and dry grip in warm weather, but they can wear out in 20-30K miles.
High performance all seasons - tend to maintain a reasonable level of traction below freezing but not well suited for snow and ice, unless it's the slushy kind that just pushes away as the tire rolls over the pavement.  Once the snow sticks you'll find they don't work well.
All Seasons - more consistent performance across the seasons, but typically don't match the wet and dry traction of the high performance tires in warm weather.  Also can't compete with winters on snow and useless on ice.  This is the one size fits all we have been sold since the 80's.
High performance winters - slightly worse wet and dry traction compared to all seasons, better snow performance and some traction on ice.
Winter tires - wet and dry traction is good below 40F, as you get over 60F they can get greasy and noisy and may wear faster.  Snow traction is terrific if you've never tried them and many will offer usable traction on ice as well.  There is a steep tradeoff in handling with some of these, they can make any car feel like a 1985 chevy caprice. 

Finally, realize that all tires change their characteristics as they age (heat cycles).  Typically their wet traction goes down and so does their snow and ice traction.  So it's not just the depth of the grooves that determine how they will perform.  I've tossed out tires with 50% of their tread left because the wet traction went in the toilet.  In one case I lent a car to a friend and warned him the tires still had lots of tread but I noticed the wet traction deteriorating.  He totalled the car the next morning...in the rain. 

I've been using winter tires for over 20 years in NJ.  I started down that path after trying to take a car with high performance all seasons down a steep hill covered in snow.  The car was new to me at that time and I assumed all seasons meant it was the equivalent of every other car I had driven previous.  Nope.  Despite taking adequate cautions going down that hill, the ABS kicked on fairly early and momentum carried me down the hill, through the stop sign and out into the middle of the main road.  All season my a**!  There was nothing I could have done to get down that hill safely with those tires on. 

Now, if there is someone that says "I've been driving for 40+ years and just use the tires on the car, just slow down!".  Do you wear your dress shoes out in the snow?  You could, but even if you walk slowly, it's a pain in the butt.  If you're going to do it frequently, it's a lot less stressful to put on the right gear and you're much less prone to injury.

Well said!

 

[semenza]

Michelin Defender LTX M/S for All Seasons. I don't have any dry traction trouble and they are great on water, pretty good on light snow. They extend my All Season season enough that I can generally use them into late Fall and then back on in early Spring. Helps preserve the softer rubber on the winter tires. Instead of others I've had that would get swapped in early Fall and late Spring. 

Seth

 

[Tinker]

I got myself a dash cam after we got rear ended and sandwiched in the middle sitting at a stop light in October 2015.  We obviously were not at fault as we were completely stopped, but both insurance companies asked how close we were to the car in front of us.  Evidently you're supposed to leave a good distance between you and the car in front of you when you stop at a red light.  I wanna say they said something like 1 whole car length - I kept thinking to myself NOBODY leaves that much space in between when stopped at a light.

I was out of HS, but worked for a year before going to college (UCONN Rattcliff-Hicks School of Ag). I was a wild driver in those days and would think about what I would have done in different situations. consequently, i had few surprises in spite of my reckless ways. I was driving on the Post Road in Westport, Ct and there were a couple of fairly steep hills coming down into town. At one light, I was pulling up beside a large tractor trailer loaded with scrap iron.  As we approached the light, it turned red.  I had no problm stopping, but that truck had gotten almost to the center of the crossing lane before came to  a stop.  While applying his brakes, there was a squeal laoud and long. I chalked that info into my brain and thought about actions to take should that  load still be close behind at the next light.

The traffic was moderate, but the bridge at the botom of the hill was sort of a bottleneck with only two lanes where at each end there were four lanes  coming and going. I just could not make it thru the next  lite before it  changed to red. I had one car  in front and maybe three or four behind me and I was waiting to hear the squeal which I knew would be coming from that  load of iron. Sure enough, the sound rang out. All the cars from the light on back to the big truck were bumper to bumper except I had left a little room between my car and the  lone car ahead of me. I started to pull ahead, angling a little towards the left when I heard the "THUMP!".  At that piont, since there was nothing coming towards me, I just whipped out into he oncoming lane as I heard "thump> thump......" and the last thump was the car that had been behind me bumping into the car that had been in front of me.  Since at that point, the lite changed and I was now blocking oncoming traffic, and there was nothing I could add to the situation other than join the angry mob, I just moved on.
Tinker

 

[Sparktrician]

Many years ago when I went to work for the local telephone company, in order to be allowed to drive company vehicles, we had to attend and pass company driving school.  One item was the concept of stopping no closer to the vehicle in front of us than it takes to see where the tires of that vehicle touch the pavement.  That has served me well in private life, as well.  We also had to ride "The Sled".  The Sled was a trailer-mounted device that taught the necessity of wearing seat belts.  All Sled riders had to empty all pockets and remove their glasses before riding.  The rider then sat in the sled and put on a seat belt.  The sled was cranked up a short incline before being released.  When it hit the end of the track, it hit with the impact of a 5 mph collision.  That impact made quite an impression on those that thought they were invincible. 

 

[GoingMyWay]

I couldn't imagine that they still have people riding the sled nowadays or do they?