another sander dilema. RO150 vs RO90 vs ETS150/5

[cerv]

I got a green light from the CFO to buy my belated Xmas gift  [embarassed]  I am interesting in getting a CT26 plus a sander combo. 
I don't have any sander and my home project goals for this comming new year are building some cabinetry plus refinish some existing ones (heavily painted with lead paint).
It is agreed here that a Rotex 150 and a ETS150/3 is a good combo.  But what about the new comming RO 90? yeah with the delta sanding pad is going to be really nice while trying to reach all the tights spots.
here is the dilema... the RO 90 has a random orbital stroke of 3mm.  Same as the ETS150/3.  Besides from the amount of area that can worked at time (150 vs 90 mm)
What do you preffer if you can only have one sander for the task described? ( I know.... chances it won't stay like that in a long time)
RO150 vs RO90 vs ETS150/5

Thanks, your input is appreciated
Roger

 

[GPowers]

Since the RO90 is three sanders in ONE it sounds like the best choice for you.  

I have the Rotex 150 and cannot wait to get the Rotex90. For the same reason you state, getting in all the tight corners. The Rotex150 is great for large areas but not the edges and tight corners of cabinet frame sanding.

Also do not forget to get the hard pad. It will help maintain the sharp 90 degree corners along the edge of the wood. The medium soft pad can round over the edge.

 

[nickao]

I will gladly keep my RO 150, ETS150/3 and find no problem adding the RO 90. I just do not think there is enough overlap for me to eliminate one. And I only use the hard pads too, I toss the ones that come stock ASAP.

I wish they came stock with the option of hard, soft or med pad. I think once people try that hard pad they really see that it is better for much of the work.

 

[cerv]

Thanks for the input.  I am starting to believe that the RO90 is a the best sander for the tasks ahead.  The only problem it won't be available until March [crying] as we know.

I have been thinking.  I can get the ETS150/5 with CT26 combo so that I can build my 15 feet worth of base cabinets.  At least with the ETS150/5 I can sand large areas before assembly.  I think with the ETS 150/5 can achieve the same finish as the 150/3 with the appropriate sand paper combo.   I really don't know what is consider an excellent vs good sanding finish before the final finish is applied.
Any particular recommendation of paper to achieve a good finish?

Then when the RO90 is available I should be done with building cabinets and ready to to tackle the existing wall cabinets.
You see...  the idea of only one sander went out of the window in no time  [big grin]
Now my new problem is to find a way to request more funding to the CFO   [eek]

Roger

 

[fdengel]

Out of curiosity, how many people agree with nickao about the hard pad?  Any counter-arguments?

I can't imagine that as being generally accurate -- I can certainly see that it may be the case within a confined field, or for a specific way of working...

My guess (without having tried one yet or started on massive research) is they probably build up heat faster due to friction on uneven surfaces and wouldn't work as well unless the surface were already fairly flat prior to starting...  possibly why Festool seems to recommend the soft pad over the hard pad for fast stock removal?

cerv, if you are going to end up with two sanders, why not the RO 150 and a Deltex?  Just a thought...

 

[Tim Sproul]

my home project goals for this comming new year are building some cabinetry

My opinion is that the RO series is not designed for cabinet/furniture work - the balance is all wrong for it.  Get the 150/3 or 150/5 for surface prep when making new cabinets/furniture.

plus refinish some existing ones (heavily painted with lead paint).

I'd look at either chemically stripping the lead finish or junking them all together and building new cabinets or at least replacing the painted components.

From where I'm standing and what you've said are your needs, I'd be looking at the 150/3 or 150/5.  There is nothing wrong with the RO series, just that for myself, I don't use them when making new cabinets or furniture (I do use the RO 150 at times for polishing film finishes but I rely mostly on the 150/5 for this task as well) and I leave removal of lead paint to others.

 

[Tim Sproul]

Out of curiosity, how many people agree with nickao about the hard pad?  Any counter-arguments?

If you like minimal relief of arri (or is it arrises?), the hard pad is better for flat work.  The softer pads tend to relieve arri more, even if you are pretty vigilant about keeping the sander level.  If you curve your work - such as a slight curve in furniture legs for chairs, tables and such, the softer pads are better.

For the best work, you really need different density pads depending on the situation.

 

[nickao]

If you do curved work there is no question the hard pad is inappropriate.

But in general :

I have never, ever had a project I went to finish or sand and said to myself  "oh I need the softer pad". I have had tons of projects where I said "dam it I need that hard pad".

So I use the hard pad exclusively and never have been in  a position to have to have to switch to a softer pad for regular flat work(anything other than curved). I guess if I ever have a project where I feel I need to go back softer I will post.

Really, your answer of needing different densities is the manufacturer basic answer. In reality the newbies for sure should IMHO always use the hard pad. Especially people that do not like the Rotex at first. I tell these people do not return the Rotex and switch pads and a few people have actually done that and messaged me back that they were keeping the sander.

For the projects we mostly do here issues arise with rounding over edges on 2" board for example  and sanding large faces, which I think are the most important for a nice sanding finish. A hard pad is best for both of those.

I believe the reason they give that med pad is to find a balance, when in fact 90% of work needs the hard pad and 10% needs the soft so they throw in that med pad to cover those instances that really require a soft pad.

Those are my opinions on the hard pad,  but I have not made every project in the world either. So it is only my opinion based on the work I have done and do, no more than that. Just my opinion.

 

[GPowers]

I made the mistake of buying the ETS150/5 as my first sander. I should had bought the ETS150/3 or the Rotex. But I was price shopping and the ETS series was less money and the dealer did not take the tome to explain the difference.   As the Rotex150 dual mode has the same function as the ETS150/5. Plus the Rotex has a grear driven mode. So my ETS150/5 is redundant. Whish I had the ETS150/3 [huh]

 

[GPowers]

Out of curiosity, how many people agree with nickao about the hard pad?  Any counter-arguments?

I can't imagine that as being generally accurate -- I can certainly see that it may be the case within a confined field, or for a specific way of working...

I did not consider the need for a hard pad until I took the Festool cabinet class.  In the class we were tough that when sanding a narrow cabinet face frame we need to use a hard pad to maintain crisp edges. 

 

[ajones]

Greg you did not make a mystake with the ets150/5 a 2mm larger orbit makes no odds.

Roger if I had to complete the progets you have outlined,with one sander it would have to be the ro90

I hate soft pads, hard for me every time.

 

[nickao]

Well you may be right technically, but there is most definitely a difference between the ETS 150/5 and ETS 150/3 for sure.

So if he is saying the RO 150 and the ETS 150 gave the same finish and the ETS 150/3 improved upon the finish he is correct. It is exactly what I have experienced. So at least on the Festool sanders the 2mm does make a difference. I suspect if the 2mm did not make a difference with these sanders they would not make a 3 and 5 and just make one.

 

[MrToolJunkie]

I really like my Rotex 150 and agree that the hard pad really makes a difference when sanding narrow pieces and to keep a crisp edge.  I have this and a DTS400 to get in the corners and it has worked out well.  I think that if you can only have one sander that the Rotex is the best all around sander there is.  If you need something to get in the corners, I would add a Deltex or a DTS or wait until the RO90 is out in a few months.  I also have a Bosch 6 inch random orbit sander that works well, but is not as smooth as the Festool sanders and I do not think that I get as good of a finish.  With the 30 day policy you can always buy one and try it to see if it fits your needs and exchange it or add another one to complement the functionality of the one you buy.  

Scot  

 

[GPowers]

If you decide to get the Deltex, just be aware that it does NOT have a Plug-it cord. This indicates to me that it is an older product.

We used the Deltex in the Festool cabinet class, it is a great sander for the corners. Is was able to get into areas the Rotex 150 could not.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Well you may be right technically, but there is most definitely a difference between the ETS 150/5 and ETS 150/3 for sure.

So if he is saying the RO 150 and the ETS 150 gave the same finish and the ETS 150/3 improved upon the finish he is correct. It is exactly what I have experienced. So at least on the Festool sanders the 2mm does make a difference. I suspect if the 2mm did not make a difference with these sanders they would not make a 3 and 5 and just make one.

Nick, I know you've said this before but I simply don't buy that there is an appreciable difference between the 5mm and 3mm strokes when sanding most common materials, particularly wood.  If you're getting better results it's far more likely to be the difference in the types of sanders (the Rotex vs. ETS) in terms of ergonomics.  My opinion is the ETS sanders are far better suited for finish sanding than the Rotex sanders.  The ETS sanders are much lighter weight and better balanced- I think that makes a big difference in achieving the best possible finish. 

 

[cerv]

Thanks again will all your inputs....  So many views based on working experience.  As far as chemically stripping old paint, I have tried that on a bathroom door.  It took quite a bit to get it done. Nevermind the clean up.  I had the door out in the garage on saw horses that made it somewhat manageable.  With build in wall mounted cabinets, gravity is working against me.  So sanding the old paint with a CT vacuum makes a lot of sense. Junking the original wall cabinets is something I rather not doing. You see, only two separate cabinet are painted while the main section have a nice aged shellac finish. Why it was done by the previous owner? who knows ???

The more I read your responses; hard pad is recommended to have for cabinet building.  It seems that and ETS 150 is a go for large pannels because of the balance.  As for fast material removal with tight corners in between, a RO 90 offers the "I can do that with" at expense of speed because the pad size.

Cheers..

 

[Brice Burrell]

Out of curiosity, how many people agree with nickao about the hard pad?  Any counter-arguments?....

I'd say the hard has it's place but I use the soft pad most of the time, particularly with the Rotex.  The soft pads work far better when trying to even out or sand material flush adjoining surfaces.  I spend fair amount of time blending exterior trim repairs, feathering out scraped paint and I wouldn't be without the soft pad for that type of work.    

 

[cerv]

I simply don't buy that there is an appreciable difference between the 5mm and 3mm strokes when sanding most common materials, particularly wood.  If you're getting better results it's far more likely to be the difference in the types of sanders (the Rotex vs. ETS) in terms of ergonomics.  My opinion is the ETS sanders are far better suited for finish sanding than the Rotex sanders.  The ETS sanders are much lighter weight and better balanced- I think that makes a big difference in achieving the best possible finish.   

You have reminded me when I held a Rotex 150 for the first time.  It felt a bit heavier on me most of the weight towards the back. That is the main reasone that a RO 90 is really appealing to me.  As far as ETS stroke differences, well I guess that I can try both at my local dealer to see it the results personally and make my mind up. 
I just remember, you can have the best final sanding finish but you can ruin everything with the wrong finishing technique application.

 

[Jeff Hein]

What do you preffer if you can only have one sander for the task described?

What I would recommend is a ETS 150 and a DTS400. This combo is about the same price as the Rotex, and then you will be able to handle large surfaces and corners.

I started out with the above combo, and added the RO150 after I had more money... I found that for most cabinet sanding tasks, I use the ETS and DTS sanders. I really use the rotex mostly for just glued up panels that need some tweaking...

 

[cerv]

What do you preffer if you can only have one sander for the task described?

What I would recommend is a ETS 150 and a DTS400. This combo is about the same price as the Rotex, and then you will be able to handle large surfaces and corners.

I started out with the above combo, and added the RO150 after I had more money... I found that for most cabinet sanding tasks, I use the ETS and DTS sanders. I really use the rotex mostly for just glued up panels that need some tweaking...

Now you got me thinking...  with the DTS400.. thanks for the info..