Anti-Static - Does it need to be continuous to be effective?

[guitarchitect]

So here's one for the people that are smarter than me: In order to dissipate static at the vacuum, how important is it for the whole "chain" - from tool end to hose to vac-end to vac - to be anti-static?

We have probably all experienced the frustration that is the 36MM anti-static hose with a tracksaw - it makes me want to scream. It's stiff as hell and gets caught on the things that at first you thought "nah, that's out of the way, the hose won't get caught on that". I can't tell you how many cuts I've had to pause in the middle of in order to fight with the hose.

So my thinking is that if you had a piece of AS hose into the vacuum, and then an extension piece that is non-AS, will the AS hose still dissipate static through the vac? Taking this to its logical conclusion - what if you just took a regular hose but stuck the antistatic connector on the end of it? Or just had a nubby 2' section of AS hose at the vac?

I'm 100% on board with hanging my hose from the ceiling/on a boom arm, once I've built a workbench to stick my CT26 under... but like many other people I don't want to pay through the nose for a festool 5m hose, and I live in a climate that has very dry times of year and I do need the benefit of an antistatic hose so I don't fry my CT26. So I'm just wondering if I'm out to lunch or if it's a possible solution!

 

[leakyroof]

Someone has made and posted flex hose short pieces that they created for the Track Saws here on FOG. Basically a short section of 27mm hose that connects the saw to a larger 36mm hose while allowing an easier time to handle your saw with that ‘stubby’ adapter hose.  I think someone was selling them as well.

 

[rst]

I have that hose adapter...bought it from Bob Marino. 

 

[guitarchitect]

Someone has made and posted flex hose short pieces that they created for the Track Saws here on FOG. Basically a short section of 27mm hose that connects the saw to a larger 36mm hose while allowing an easier time to handle your saw with that ‘stubby’ adapter hose.  I think someone was selling them as well.

Yep I've got one of those - mainly for my sander. But it's only 1' long and I'm still hanging the 36 hose off it, so the battle still wages on.

My thinking would be to have the stubby AS on the vac end (if the science supported it) so that there would always be an AS hose going into the vac, and then I could have a floppy larger diameter hose (by bosch) running up to the ceiling and down to the tool,

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[semenza]

The whole  run / chain needs to be AS.

Seth

 

[AlexThePalex]

It works through electrical conductivity.

A static charge is electricity. In order to prevent a static charge to build up in a hose, the charge needs to be dissipated through the hose, then through the ground cord of the vac, and then to the ground. So every piece in the trajectory must be able to conduct electricity.

Just like with a lamp, you can't cut out a part of the cord and replace it with a random piece of rope, plastic or rubber and still expect it to work.

 

[Michael Kellough]

It works through electrical conductivity.

A static charge is electricity. In order to prevent a static charge to build up in a hose, the charge needs to be dissipated through the hose, then through the ground cord of the vac, and then to the ground. So every piece in the trajectory must be able to conduct electricity.

Just like with a lamp, you can't cut out a part of the cord and replace it with a random piece of rope, plastic or rubber and still expect it to work.

That is very funny!

 

[guitarchitect]

It works through electrical conductivity.

A static charge is electricity. In order to prevent a static charge to build up in a hose, the charge needs to be dissipated through the hose, then through the ground cord of the vac, and then to the ground. So every piece in the trajectory must be able to conduct electricity.

Just like with a lamp, you can't cut out a part of the cord and replace it with a random piece of rope, plastic or rubber and still expect it to work.

Makes sense, that's the kind of simple analogy I need to imagine it!

I suppose one could run a grounding wire alongside the non-as hose, but the tool end of that solution night be more trouble than it is worth

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[Michael Kellough]

It works through electrical conductivity.

A static charge is electricity. In order to prevent a static charge to build up in a hose, the charge needs to be dissipated through the hose, then through the ground cord of the vac, and then to the ground. So every piece in the trajectory must be able to conduct electricity.

Just like with a lamp, you can't cut out a part of the cord and replace it with a random piece of rope, plastic or rubber and still expect it to work.

Makes sense, that's the kind of simple analogy I need to imagine it!

I suppose one could run a grounding wire alongside the non-as hose, but the tool end of that solution night be more trouble than it is worth

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I have not done tried this but there are things like copper foil tape used for stained glass that seems like it would be suitable since it could fit between a hub and a pipe etc.

 

[Cheese]

I suppose one could run a grounding wire alongside the non-as hose, but the tool end of that solution night be more trouble than it is worth

Many people do that when running 4" flex hose to their main dust collector. It works well.

I use the interior spring wire support on 4" flex hose instead to bring the charge to ground. Fewer external parts to snag or damage. 

 

[Corwin]

...
I suppose one could run a grounding wire alongside the non-as hose, but the tool end of that solution night be more trouble than it is worth

Yes, you could purchase antistatic versions both the tool and vac end fittings and run a ground wire on the non-AS hose in between, but, do you really think that is going to be any more flexible and less likely to catch on something while using a tool? It would be a shame to purchase a non-AS hose, AS fittings and grounding wire only to end up with a setup that was cumbersome to use and maybe even didn't provide the grounding needed to protect your CT from static.

How long before the new D36-AS hoses are available for purchase? These are supposed to be more flexible than the current hose. Sounds like a far better solution to me. And, you could get the [current] 1.5m D50-AS hose from the Boom Arm and then only need the standard length of new D36 hose. Maybe look at a cleaning set with the D36 hose.

 

[Sanderxpander]

FWIW the d27 hose works fine with the track saw. It still catches sometimes but it's more flexible. You could also consider one of the new smooth hoses, though they are pricey.

 

[Mike2014]

So I’m going to jump in this thread also I was just going to ask the same thing about static. I picked up the half price sleeved hose and now all the sudden I have static at the tool in while sanding I’ve never had it on my non-sleeved hose anybody else have this problem with the sleeve hose?  It could be my boom arm it’s PVC conduit that might be doing it but I’m not sure Im gonna try some things but just looking for some ideas .

 

[Cheese]

I’ve had the sleeved hoses on 2 vacs for the last 2-3 years. Used them with sanders, track saws, routers & Dominos...no problems, no shocks.

 

[Corwin]

So I’m going to jump in this thread also I was just going to ask the same thing about static. I picked up the half price sleeved hose and now all the sudden I have static at the tool in while sanding I’ve never had it on my non-sleeved hose anybody else have this problem with the sleeve hose?  It could be my boom arm it’s PVC conduit that might be doing it but I’m not sure I’m gonna try some things but just looking for some ideas .

Did you change anything else with your hose connection? Hard to see from your photo, but what's going on between the vac end of the hose and the CT?

I wouldn't think your PVC boom arm has anything to do with this. Getting static at the tool is an indication that you do not have a complete path to ground to / through your CT -- leaving the path of least resistance through the tool to you and onto ground. So, make sure you have a continuous path from the tool to your CT and make sure it is plugged into a grounded electrical socket.

 

[semenza]

I have a hose connected to PVC conduit in my shop. Been using it for many years now. I ran a jumper wire from the hose connection to the vac port. It has worked very well.

First pic. shows the overall set up.

Second shows the jumper attached to the hose coupler. Hard to see, but it is the green vinyl covered wire coming down the back side. It loops around the bottom edge of the coupler.

Third shows a simple wedge fit in the vac port.

The wire is actually a piece of that covered clothes line.

[attachimg=1]      [attachimg=2]      [attachimg=3]

Seth

 

[Vondawg]

Did you change anything else with your hose connection? Hard to see from your photo, but what's going on between the vac end of the hose and the CT?
[/quote]

Yes, It looks like the connection(s) from hose to vac in Mike2014’s pic, are breaking the chain if they are not AS

 

[guitarchitect]

I have a hose connected to PVC conduit in my shop. Been using it for many years now. I ran a jumper wire from the hose connection to the vac port. It has worked very well.

First pic. shows the overall set up.

Second shows the jumper attached to the hose coupler. Hard to see, but it is the green vinyl covered wire coming down the back side. It loops around the bottom edge of the coupler.

Third shows a simple wedge fit in the vac port.

The wire is actually a piece of that covered clothes line.

[attachimg=1]      [attachimg=2]      [attachimg=3]

Seth

Hey, nice idea! A great way for me to use up wire leftover from my shop build!
I'm hoping to do something similar - run the piping up the wall over top of the typical location for my assembly/work table. When I started calculating the cost of how much hose I'll need, I started to question my sanity. but this sort of solution might let me get away with a single hose that I can just unplug if/when I need to take the vac out of the shop. If I can fit a dust deputy into the chain I can toss my shop-cleaning shopvac, too, and regain some space!

I did some searching and I can get a central vac tubing set (with elbows + y's + sweeps etc) for $75(cdn) with 50' of pipe, so I think I should probably figure out how I can install a couple of strategically placed outlets with blast gates that will give me access to my whole shop!