Any project managers in this forum???

F

ForumMFG

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
1,004
I have been a commercial casework project manager for architectural casework/millwork companies since 2006.  A new opportunity has come up for me but it has a 120 mile round trip.  Im just curious what the salary is of a project manager in different areas of the country.  I have a lot to consider and it will cost a small fortune to drive that far every day.  31,200 miles per year.  I want to make sure I negotiate my compensation correctly. 
 
Wow. If the IRS mileage rate was used, that kind of travel would already net you about $18,000.
 
Estimate based on shop to client and return. If home is not shop, adjustments needed.
 
Yeah home is not shop.  I would be driving from home to the shop and back home.  I don’t think any of those miles can be written off.  If that would be true then why can’t i write off my 10 mile commute that i have now. 
 
ChuckM said:
Wow. If the IRS mileage rate was used, that kind of travel would already net you about $18,000.
Click to expand...

Sure, but it exist to replace the cost to your car.  Do life time cost of ownership on a vehicle (the vehicle, taxes, registration, insurance, maintenance, gas, tires, etc), you find the IRS numbers of 50-60 cents to the mile are what a car cost, even if you buy a fairly inexpensive vehicle and run it for a long time.  So your not making anything there.  Thus why reimbursements exist.
 
Try glassdoor salary comparisons:https://www.glassdoor.sg/Salaries/index.htm

Also note that there is a huge difference in total cost of ownership per year and/or per mile between vehicles. That includes purchase minus sale (after typically 5 years), repairs and maintenance, fuel (gas or electric).

IMHO, the most important consideration is the culture/environment at the new business. Job satisfaction level can make a huge impact on your life and the life of loved ones, sometimes far beyond monetary considerations.
 
ForumMFG said:
Yeah home is not shop.  I would be driving from home to the shop and back home.  I don’t think any of those miles can be written off.  If that would be true then why can’t i write off my 10 mile commute that i have now.
Click to expand...

My statement might have been misunderstood. I wasn't saying the "mileage claim" (estimate) was profits. I'm saying the travel should be budgeted into your cost estimates when you prepare your bid or quote, and the IRS mileage rate is one example based on which you can estimate the travel costs. Of course, you could do the estimates based on estimated gas, car maintenance, insurance, etc. But it must be clear that you're not making those visits for free, not like you're going to a park on a weekend trip.

In my previous business that required city travels, unlike other service providers which quoted their offers based on the prevailing market/hourly rate (x estimated hours to complete the job), I worked out my estimated costs (including parking fees & mileage) and then used the numbers with my profit margin to decide how much I should quote. Sometimes I won, sometimes I lost.

As for taxation write-offs, on this side of the border, self-employed or a small business owner can claim non-personal travel expenses (not mileage) such as gas, insurance, maintenance, lease fee or car loan interest against revenue so incurred. Depreciation, too.

 
I watched as my wife drove those kind of miles to and from work for three years.  The stress on her, and me, took a toll.  Unless there is not another way to financially make it, don't do it.  Winter is the worst.

Good luck in your decision.

Peter
 
Look at it as three hours per day on the road; time wasted that you could be spending with your significant other and/or your kids, or your best friends.  Is this job worth that price?  Then add in the cost of vehicular maintenance, fuel, tires, and insurance increases.  And what if your vehicle breaks down on the road or you get into an accident?  Do you have the emergency overnight bag in your vehicle in case you can't get home?  I've done the road warrior thing, and frankly, it sucks ditch water.  If you choose to get an apartment in another city, will the company reimburse you?  Can your significant other take over and run things without resenting your absence?  Think very carefully on this one. 
 
To Peter's point, what is the average commuting time and how do you feel about that? If you can do the drive in 60 minutes and the traffic moves well, it may be tolerable. However, if the time stretches to 90 minutes in stop and go traffic, the stress could be much worse on a day in and day out basis. The company attitude about exact starting times then factors in with the need to leave home early every day to allow for variable traffic situations.

 
As a follow up, the costs for the commute are just your personal expense and can not be deducted from taxes in the US.  SO all those vehicle maintenance costs and depreciation are a salary suck.  Now if you were to be a contract consultant non-employee, then your home base would be the desk in your basement and the travel and maintenance costs would be deductible.  Of course consulting with a tax professional would be prudent.

Peter
 
I agree with Peter - don't do it if you have that choice. Some people are fine with long commutes, but it's using up our most precious resource - time.

I was a consultant in the beginning of my career and my daily commute was 2.5-3 hours in terrible stop and go traffic. It wasn't bad in terms of miles driven, but it was still 3 hours of my life lost every working day. That's 60 daytime hours in a month.

To make things worse the company I worked for had very strict start time policy and frequently had meetings that started at 8 AM. At the tail end of every project there was a crunch time phase, so I frequently had to leave the office late. There were many days where I'd get home at 8 PM and had to wake up at 5 AM the next day to make it to another early morning meeting. By Friday I'd be drained. My wife wasn't very happy about this arrangement either.
 
I agree with Peter and others..  I would skip unless this is your only option.  I did a similar drive in 2001 for three years due to the tech bubble bust and I needed a job .. Almost identical to the description [member=50918]serge0n[/member] presented above... very very long days.  Plus lots of wasted hours in a car.  The only plus was audio books...   
 
Hmm, let me add a little bit of counter-narrative to that. I've done the long commute thing for long periods in my life. Once I had a job 252km from home. I did that for almost a year. Now I have my own company, but my business premises are located more centrally in our country than where my home is. I like my company to be very well accessible to my customers, but I like to live in the countryside too. Nowadays (well more like the last 15 years) my commute is a one-and-a-half hour trip, twice a day.

Do I like it? Not really. Especially not with the ridiculous amounts of traffic we have here. Do I hate it? Nope. Why? Well the first time my wife and I talked about it and we both thought it was a very good opportunity to improve my skills and resume. With hindsight I can say it really did and that it was worth every minute of it. The current long commute was a well-considered decision too. This time because we thought it would be better for business. Every time I arrive at my home I still am glad we made this choice. We live in a great place with lots of space, which is something that is very hard to find in our country. Unless you want to be a farmer, and even then.

So, my advise would be to weigh the pro's and con's carefully. And do this together with your loved ones. If you (all) consider it a good investment of your time and effort, and those who stay at home are willing to bear the load of you not always being there, then (and only then) it might be a good thing to do. Ask yourself if it is worth it to you and those around you. Both in a monetary sense, in a sense of opportunities, and in a sense of what it will mean to those who live with you.

If you do choose to do this, then make sure you negotiate that commute time is (at least partly) considered hours payable.

HTH

 
hdv said:
If you do choose to do this, then make sure you negotiate that commute time is (at least partly) considered hours payable.

HTH
Click to expand...

Don't let IRS or the taxman influence how you look at commute time. Every minute of commute is worth something, whether I use that amount of time to volunteer or moonlight. It may not be easy to convince a company to pay you for commute time, especially when its existing HR policy is set in stone.

Unless one is such a big shot, no HR head will change the policy for a new guy or gal. But it doesn't prevent you from including it in your asking salary. Frankly, for such a long commute job on a regular basis, you're giving up some precious thing in exchange for a remuneration that has to be more than good. People here leave to work in the oil field for months (missing the family, boring life while away, junk food, etc.), and they do that because the pay is more than sweet.
 
ChuckM said:
Don't let IRS or the taxman influence how you look at commute time. Every minute of commute is worth something, whether I use that amount of time to volunteer or moonlight. It may not be easy to convince a company to pay you for commute time, especially when its existing HR policy is set in stone.
Click to expand...

I do agree this shouldn't be decided on monetary grounds alone. Which is why I wrote what I wrote.

ChuckM said:
Unless one is such a big shot, no HR head will change the policy for a new guy or gal.
Click to expand...

TBH I am not sure how these things are done in the States or Canada. I sure don't consider myself to be a big shot, but I have negotiated such conditions with more than one employer in the past. Maybe that is easier done over here, than over there? Dunno...
 
You must have skills or experience that they valued. Some smaller companies and owners are also more flexible when it comes to policy and remuneration, to be sure.
 
Can you perform some of this work remotely?  Evan a single day working remotely at home can help especially when making a long commute.
 
I've done long commutes. I like driving so it doesn't bother me that much. However, this kind of decision is more about quality of life rather than just money. Its a lot of lost hours if you have family. If you have little kids now, this is why they won't listen to you when they are teenagers.
For me it would have to be really worth the money. Not decent money, great money and a timetable for an out. Realistically you can't do this for 10 years. Maybe but probably not. What's the up side in 2-5 years. Beyond that does it pay enough to make you smile, does it pay enough to buy another new car, does it pay enough to sock a lot of money away?
If it doesn't screw it.
In terms of salary think of what would make you really, really happy and throw out that number. If they go for it, great. If not let them search around.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top