Anyone use Felder/Hammer machines in a professional shop?

[Rob-GB]

Just looking at these machines for a new shop, and they seem to be good value even against some reconditioned older machines.
Do any of you use them on a daily basis? and how do you rate them?
Any thoughts welcome. Thanks.

Rob.

 

[junk731]

Rob

I currently use a 2010 Felder K700S Plus 120" 3 phase on a daily basis. One man shop custom cabinets and furniture. I also have a 2008 Hammer A3-31 for when the need arises. The K700 is an upgrade from a 2008 K500S 98". Zero down time, no problems and a pleasure to setup/operate. Good dust collection on both machines. Only down side for a small shop is the footprint. I have mine located against a wall and have an area 30' x 14' that is usable. Felder and Festool you can't go wrong. PM if you want more detailed info.

John

 

[Guy Ashley]

Hi Rob

I have all Hammer machinery, K3 Table Saw, F3 Spindle Moulder, A310 Planer/Thicknesser and N4400 bandsaw, in a one man joinery shop.

The machines are first rate, service is excellent, (in fairness the Milton Keynes office is just 15 minutes down the road!)

You are welcome to come and have a look if you wish. PM me if you want contact numbers.

Guy

 

[Rob-GB]

Thanks for you quick replies, chaps. [big grin]
It is also good that between you, you cover the areas of work this setup is aimed at.

"Zero down time, no problems and a pleasure to setup/operate. Good dust collection on both machines."    Just the sort of thing I wanted to hear. ;D

"The machines are first rate, service is excellent, (in fairness the Milton Keynes office is just 15 minutes down the road!)"  Ditto above (plus I used to live one estate away in M.K. [big grin] )

Had a brief meeting with the man who will be funding the set up, no budget stated but he wants it to be right and me to be happy with what we get. Felder are sending me some literature, I had hoped it would be here today [sad]. I have to get a proposal detailed for him this week, including costs.

Further questions._ Do you use the dado set up on your panel saws?

How 'quiet' are they(the machines) when working?

Which knife/block configuration do you have? And why?

Thanks again, Rob.

 

[mattfc]

Just sign up on the Felder website and you can get all the cost data and config options. If I were you, I would also look at altneratives and price them, such as from Martin etc, so you get a feel for the Felder pricing. On a number of items you should be able to drive a deal given the current economic climate, so don't just accept the list price push hard. If they won't budge on the machine base price, fine, negotiate on the add-ons, as they soon mount up.

I am not sure how particular your client is, but if I were him I would want to see a side by side comparison of 3 options per machine, along with a short list of pros and cons plus pricing (hey thats what you would do if buying a new car..)

Also look at the merit/cons of having one brand.. I would at the minimum expect you to be able to drive a better deal if you stick with one supplier.

 

[Rob-GB]

Matt, yes that was my thinking, one brand for as much as possible, then morticer and tennoning machines from another. I want to get the best kit possible for his 'bucks'. [big grin] I will be the one who has to make the workshop earn it's keep, so reliable trustworthy kit is my game plan. It is why I am switching all my portable kit to Festool, as far as possible. I have signed into both Hammer and Felder but still have questions to answer, online is okay but hopefully the brochures are easier to digest/more informative.  ;D The chap I spoke with is including his card so I will have a contact there, see I forgot his name already [embarassed]
Rob.

 

[junk731]

Rob

I have used the Hammer Dado set on my K500S which is the only one Felder recommends for that saw and have got mixed results. Its very overpriced for the quality of cut. I currently using a Royce 10" dado set. If you move up to the K700 and higher machines the dado set is much better but still very expensive. Saw noise can be loud depending on blade type and dust extraction. The A3-31 is a 3 blade cutterhead and is noisy. Its the only head availiable for the Hammer. You have to move to the Felder Line to get the optional cutterheads. I use the cobalt knives and get good life. I believe Eiji has the aftermarket Bird-Shellix head on his machine and by all reports from the Felder Owners Group ( the other FOG) it does a great job on highly figured wood and is much quieter. Typically the best time to buy machines on this side of the pond is around show times but a multi machine deal should bring good prices. Hope this helps.

John

 

[jonny round boy]

Do you use the dado set up on your panel saws?

Rob,

Not wanting to put you off, but I was told a few years ago that dado cutters on panel saws are illegal in the UK. Having said that, I'm really not sure if that is true or not, but you might want to check it out officially before you go too far down that road.

 

[Guy Ashley]

Hi Rob

Further questions._ Do you use the dado set up on your panel saws?

No I dont, I just use the saw for ripping up timber and sheet goods

How 'quiet' are they(the machines) when working?

The saw is pretty quiet, the planer and the spindle moulder can be noisy but dependant on what you are putting through and how much you are taking off in each pass.

Which knife/block configuration do you have? And why?

I have the Felder 150 x 40 standard Euro block cutter because it is easy to get blades and limiters from a number of vendors and the Felder panel raising set.

These cutter blocks and panel raiser sets were bought at a very good price when I set the workshop up.

I dealt with Russell Jones at MK and although they seem a little tight to move on machine prices they do throw in quite a few accessories.

That was nearly three years ago so the economic climate is more in your favour now.

Guy

 

[Rob-GB]

Do you use the dado set up on your panel saws?

Rob,

Not wanting to put you off, but I was told a few years ago that dado cutters on panel saws are illegal in the UK. Having said that, I'm really not sure if that is true or not, but you might want to check it out officially before you go too far down that road.

From what I read recently with regard to the machine regs, it is possible to use them as long as the machine is properly guarded. The older regs stated that a riving knife must be used on tablesaws, which is impractical with a dado cutter. I think this is a rare bonus point of UK Gov. acquiescence to Euro rulings. [wink]
The latest regs have several items withdrawn. It was on the HSE site. You are correct though in that it was always a no-no here from 1979/ish.
Rob.

 

[joraft]

I'm just in the process of assembling my KF700S, so I can't say much about the performance, but I'm very impressed with the quality of manufacture.

I did order the dado option. At nearly $1000 it's pretty pricey, but nicely made. I think that's the case with most Felder stuff, very expensive but you do get more for the money. Always worth it? I don't know.

Now that I think about it, I feel pretty much the same way about Festool.  [big grin]

 

[Rob-GB]

Hi Rob

Further questions._ Do you use the dado set up on your panel saws?

No I dont, I just use the saw for ripping up timber and sheet goods

How 'quiet' are they(the machines) when working?

The saw is pretty quiet, the planer and the spindle moulder can be noisy but dependant on what you are putting through and how much you are taking off in each pass.

Which knife/block configuration do you have? And why?

I have the Felder 150 x 40 standard Euro block cutter because it is easy to get blades and limiters from a number of vendors and the Felder panel raising set.

These cutter blocks and panel raiser sets were bought at a very good price when I set the workshop up.

I dealt with Russell Jones at MK and although they seem a little tight to move on machine prices they do throw in quite a few accessories.

That was nearly three years ago so the economic climate is more in your favour now.

Guy

Thanks Guy, I think the dado setup will be safer and more accurate for box sash windows than a Radial arm saw with Dado cutter head. Last time I used one of those I nearly wet myself, I felt I was not in control merely trying to tame a wild beast!. [embarassed]
I already own a bunch of Spindle tooling for a 30mm shaft, so I plan to add to that core, and replace as required.
Tight on machine prices eh! Festool/Felder...mmmmmm. We shall see what occurs. [big grin]
Rob.

 

[Guy Ashley]

Thanks Guy, I think the dado setup will be safer and more accurate for box sash windows than a Radial arm saw with Dado cutter head. Last time I used one of those I nearly wet myself, I felt I was not in control merely trying to tame a wild beast!.  [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared]

Man you have more "balls" than me to use that set up.

They do a window tooling set for the F3 spindle moulder which I have been considering as I am getting short of space to use a dedicated tenoner but it is about 5K so perhaps a 2nd hand Multico may have to be next. (Oh well thats the Kapex gone again!!!)

 

[Rob-GB]

Joraft,
Dear Sir,
Please can you expedite the first use of the aforementioned Dado set up on the KF700S and report back review the equipment.

Rob. (oddly hopping like he's on hot coals)  ;D

 

[Rob-GB]

Thanks Guy, I think the dado setup will be safer and more accurate for box sash windows than a Radial arm saw with Dado cutter head. Last time I used one of those I nearly wet myself, I felt I was not in control merely trying to tame a wild beast!.  [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared] [scared]

Man you have more "balls" than me to use that set up.They do a window tooling set for the F3 spindle moulder which I have been considering as I am getting short of space to use a dedicated tenoner but it is about 5K so perhaps a 2nd hand Multico may have to be next. (Oh well thats the Kapex gone again!!!)

After 6 months of no work, need outweighs whatever size cahooners one happens to have!
(p.s. Her indoors is happy with them, that's all that matters) [laughing] [laughing]

On a serious note, I would like a Sedgwick three head tennoner, it has a relatively small footprint and works really well. Saves a lot of time in setting up.
I have used multico's and they also do a fine job, just the setting up can take a while. Not so bad on large runs but a PITA on one off's.
Rob.

 

[Guy Ashley]

If I was as rich as you are going to be a Sedgwick would be ideal but at nearly ?5k brand new a bit out of my league. I can pick up a Multico for about ?1500 (hopefully).

Re your other posts re the A3/310 using joinery grade redwood you do get resin build up and have to clean the beds, just like the saw blades, spindle moulder tooling, etc, but it is nowhere near as regular with hardwoods.

Felder do a Harzloser resin cleaner that is good and the Supergleit keeps stuff running smoothly. (Sounds like a job for the apprentice!!! [big grin])

 

[richard.selwyn]

I have had the CF731 combination Felder machine for about 3 years.  I hate to call myself a "professional" as I am self taught, but I do earn my living in the workshop making built in furniture etc.  The Felder seems excellent value to me as it has a much more "engineered" feel than some of the other machines I tried - but I have never really used anything much other than the Felder (or a Lurem or Kity neither of which are in the same league. 
I also have a FD 250 slot morticer but don't use it much (I prefer the domino  )
I haven't seen mention here of the other FOG - felder owners group on yahoo under finance - it is a great help to me like this FOG.  The one criticism I would make of the Felder is the instruction manual, but with the other FOG it is not need.

Their customer service here in France has been good so far, although I haven't needed much.

I have the Felder cutterhead with the throwaway blades (came with the standard one by mistake but they sent an engineer from Austria to change it F.O.C)  I chose it as it seemed easier.  On the other FOG they prefer Tersa but I don't really know what the difference is.

Good luck.

Richard

 

[Rob-GB]

Thanks Richard, in my book anyone earning a living from woodworking is "professional". All my apprenticeship and college training gave me really was a greater thirst for knowledge within this field. [big grin]
Re: Manuals, I think this must be true of most Germanic manuals, after all Festool ones are pretty shamefull. Thankfully we have some great after market ones available written by a member here. [big grin]
Rob.