Anyone using a MiniMax combo machine?

[Iceclimber]

Looks quite a bit more robust to me than the Hammer.

If not running the Minimax how about just Tersa cutter heads.

I use mostly or all hard figured woods so it matters to me. I can upgrade the machine myself with a Byrd head but a few things about that are not desirable. One being it makes the machine cost about $1300 more than the Hammer. Two i have to do the work "changeover" myself. And third i have a sense the Hammer silent cutter head is superior to the Byrd.

I really am more drawn to the Minimax machine. Sure it does not offer a few of the accessories the comparable Hammer machine does and the tables both raise separate from each other. I don't know what it is i like more about it. I guess it just seems more robust and looks much less like a toy. Not that the hammer machines look like toys but by comparison they kinda do. 

 

[THW]

I have the Minimax FS35 (12") combination machine, and I'm very happy with it. I bought it as a demo machine from a woodshow (they didn't want to ship it back to Texas). I had initial problems in that it had not been repacked properly, so that the outfeed table hinge pin and the fence were both damaged in shipping. They were prompt in responding, but a little slow in getting the parts to me (I suspect that the hinge pin is not something that ordinarily has anything go wrong with it, so they may not have had one in stock), but there was never any question that they would do so once I sent them photos of the damage, and they sent me an extra set of knives for my patience.

Once set up, I have had NO significant issues. It is accurate, easy to change from jointer to planer and back. I have the American-style guard (which I prefer) rather than the European-style shown in the video. The American-style guard they supply is plastic and it has to get a bit stressed to pass by the dust collection hood when shifting between modes. Mine eventually cracked, and I made my own out of a short scrap of wide cherry, using the original as a pattern. No problems since. I also replaced the plastic handwheel for raising and lowering the planer bed with a cast iron one, but that was gilding the lily: I prefer the momentum that you get for large changes with a cast iron wheel. The indicator for thicknessing is metric, so I have a conversion chart attached next to it. It is also adjustable.

The Tersa knives are, as the video says, very easy to change, and they align automatically and accurately. An advantage not mentioned in the video is that if you should get a small nick in them, there's a little bit of lengthwise play in the slots, so that you can tap one knife in or out slightly and eliminate the ridge on your planed surface. There was not an option for the helical knives when I got mine -- I probably would have sprung for it for the noise-reduction. The Tersa knives are as loud as any other straight knives. On the other hand, they are so easy to change that you are not tempted  to put off changes when the knives are a bit dull, and sharp knives are significantly less loud than dull ones.

 

[Iceclimber]

Thanks for the info!

Do you use figured hardwood much. If so how is the quality of the finish with the Tersa cutters.

Also how long do they last for you when working with woods that stress blades.

Everything i work with is teak, mahogany, figurd maples including birdsye, babinga, sappele so forth amd so on. And all figured for the most part.

I have the Minimax FS35 (12") combination machine, and I'm very happy with it. I bought it as a demo machine from a woodshow (they didn't want to ship it back to Texas). I had initial problems in that it had not been repacked properly, so that the outfeed table hinge pin and the fence were both damaged in shipping. They were prompt in responding, but a little slow in getting the parts to me (I suspect that the hinge pin is not something that ordinarily has anything go wrong with it, so they may not have had one in stock), but there was never any question that they would do so once I sent them photos of the damage, and they sent me an extra set of knives for my patience.

Once set up, I have had NO significant issues. It is accurate, easy to change from jointer to planer and back. I have the American-style guard (which I prefer) rather than the European-style shown in the video. The American-style guard they supply is plastic and it has to get a bit stressed to pass by the dust collection hood when shifting between modes. Mine eventually cracked, and I made my own out of a short scrap of wide cherry, using the original as a pattern. No problems since. I also replaced the plastic handwheel for raising and lowering the planer bed with a cast iron one, but that was gilding the lily: I prefer the momentum that you get for large changes with a cast iron wheel. The indicator for thicknessing is metric, so I have a conversion chart attached next to it. It is also adjustable.

The Tersa knives are, as the video says, very easy to change, and they align automatically and accurately. An advantage not mentioned in the video is that if you should get a small nick in them, there's a little bit of lengthwise play in the slots, so that you can tap one knife in or out slightly and eliminate the ridge on your planed surface. There was not an option for the helical knives when I got mine -- I probably would have sprung for it for the noise-reduction. The Tersa knives are as loud as any other straight knives. On the other hand, they are so easy to change that you are not tempted  to put off changes when the knives are a bit dull, and sharp knives are significantly less loud than dull ones.

 

[newinwood]

I will follow this thread with all my attention -kind of deciding between MiniMax and Hammer too. What bothering me most - not enough info on net about MiniMax combination machine, can't find any place for accessories. It is easy to find anything for Felder/Hammer on their site. Plus , more people around me with Felder/Hammer brand then MM. I need to touch, play before deciding.
Ed.

 

[THW]

I have not run a lot of figured material. I have run a good deal of maple, cherry, a little oak, some beech and birch through it (I use pretty much native woods, locally sourced) as well as a fair bit of curly and bird's-eye maple. The bird's-eye is as difficult in my experience as anything else, and I'd say the machine does a good job, but I don't have a lot of comparative experience. I take very small increments, a thirty-second or less, as I get to dimension. The Tersa blades are available both in HSS and carbide. I have used only the HSS. The blades are available on-line from sources besides Minimax, a bit cheaper.

 

[Iceclimber]

Yeah getting info from people that have used the MiniMax is like pulling teeth. I have a feeling it is just not the go to machine in the size and application range.

I can kinda see why. I got a price quote today of $5300 plus an additional $400 delivery. Being the MiniMax comes with a Tersa head and not a Spiral and if you want to add a spiral you are on your own and have to use a second party product i can see why people go Hammer.

If i was to upgrade the cutter head to a spiral on my own it would cost an additional $1300 plus my time/labor. I dint mind the time and labor but the cost is significant. I suppose i could just get the machine with the Tersa head give it a go and upgrade the cutter down the road. Regardless if i feel the need to upgrade the cutter the $1300 is gonna hurt when i could say buy a Domino XL with it or most of a Onieda cyclone.

On the other hand if one machine is hobbyist quality to light commercial and the other full on industrial the added cost of the machine before upgrading to the Spiral cutter head is well worth it. Its such a hard decision when you cant see the machine in person. My guess this is another reason more people don't go the MiniMax route.

The hammer rep made a point and suggested on his own to set me up with someone local to me that owns a hammer machine. Thats pretty encouraging to me with regard to customer service. On the other hand MiniMax has a service tech less than 30 minutes from me should the need ever arise. 

I don't know. Im taking a look at the Hammer unit tomorrow  i hope i am so impressed i forget all about the MiniMax in a way. Its pretty simple the Hammer machine is $1100 less delivered and comes with a Spiral Cutter head. On the other hand if it is hobbiest quality vrs commercial that $2400 price difference after the upgrade the the Bryd Shelix on the MiniMax is pretty small money all said and done.

Grrrr, decisions decisions.

I will follow this thread with all my attention -kind of deciding between MiniMax and Hammer too. What bothering me most - not enough info on net about MiniMax combination machine, can't find any place for accessories. It is easy to find anything for Felder/Hammer on their site. Plus , more people around me with Felder/Hammer brand then MM. I need to touch, play before deciding.
Ed.

 

[Kevin Johnson]

I know that at one time (I think it still exists) there was a Mini-max group on Yahoo Groups. Have you looked there?

 

[andvari]

The Minimax group is still on Yahoo.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MiniMax-USA/info

It's worth joining if you are an owner or prospective owner.

 

[stvrowe]

Five years ago I posted the following on the MiniMax Users forum on Yahoo and my conclusions have not changed.  Through some unfortunate circumstances related to a dear friends passing, I ended up purchasing the AD741 referenced below and it sits within feet of the Minimax unit.  I had intended on deciding which I liked best and then selling the other.  After 4+ years owning both machines, I still cannot decide which I prefer so one is set up as a jointer and the other a planer.  While these comments may or may not be applicable to the machines you are comparing, it should provide some useful insights.

"I have a FS41 Elite-S 3 phase model. I previously owned a Felder CF741SP combo machine and have used a Felder AD741 J/P which is comparable to the FS41. Based on my experience with these machines I offer the following observations. To me, pros and cons are comparative terms so I will compare the machine features and what I like/dislike about them. This is long so bear with me. Overall, if I could take the best features from each machine and put them into one, I would have the perfect J/P.
1) Both machines perform very well, indistinguishable differences in actual performance between the two. Cost is about the same - at least when I purchased several years ago. I did have a problem with the main power switch on the MM as the machine kept tripping on thermal overloads during operation (it did so randomly with no relationship to th e load the machine was under). MM did provide a replacement power switch under warranty.
2) I like the Tersa cutterhead better than the Felder. Much faster knive changes and you can go with carbide knives on the Minimax. Cost of the Tersa knives is slightly higher than the Felder knives.
3) The MM table is longer than the Felder but I really can't say this has made any difference in performance.
4) The MM fence is center mount and the Felder is mounted from a bar at the front of the infeed table. There are pros and cons to each system IMHO. When converting to planer mode, you have to move the fence all the way to the operator side with the MM wheras the Felder has to move a little less than half way across the table. The center supported fence seems slightly more rigid IMO. The MM includes an auxilary fence that swings down giving a shorter fence height - which I have never used.
5) Infeed table adjustment readings is visible from the top on the Felder and on the side for the MM. The Felder has the edge from a user interface and visibility standpoint on this.
6) The jointer guard on the Felder is much superior to the MM. I have both the pork chop guard and the Euro-guard for the MM. The pork chop never functioned satisfactorily and wouldn't swing back to completely cover the cutterhead without manually pushing it. This guard is a major disappointment. The Euroguard on the MM is better but not a whole lot. The knobs are too small and are hard to turn to adjust. I replaced the knobs with some from J.W. Winco and it improved but overall, this setup doesn't even come close to the Felder guard IMHO.
7) The table latch on the MM is a single lever which is very nice. The Felder has two cam type latches one for the infeed and the other for the outfeed table. The MM has the edge on this feature.
8) The feed roller engagement lever on the MM is more convenient and easier to operate than the Felder.
9) With respect to the dust collection hood, this is also a mixed bag. Honestly, the Felder does a better job at dust collection. The MM is nice because you can fix the dust collection connection on one side of the machine where on the Felder, you flip the hood over. This means you need a longer hose with the Felder. To go back to jointer mode, on the MM, you only need to lower the table 4 inches, with the Felder, it is 7 inches.
10) The planer tables are about the same size between the two machines but with the Felder, you can add an outfeed table to their F channel. The MM doesn't have a built in feature but there are aftermarket items you can add to obtain this feature.
11) With the MM, the mobility kit is included. With the Felder, it is optional. The Felder mobility kit is nicer IMO but, that comes at extra cost.
12) Comparing the power drive options between the two machines, the MM has high and low speed movement of the planer table in both directions. They are incorporated into the same switch, you just hold the button for a few seconds and it shifts to fast speed. The Felder has high speed in both directions but slow speed in only the raise direction.
13)The digital display on the MM has two digits to the right of the decimal while the Felder has 3. The Felder display can be switched between Imperial and Metric. I haven't tried to do this on the MM. If I recall correctly, the single phase machine you are looking at doesn't have the electronic digital display but has a counter for measurement.
14)Both machines can accept a mortise attachment. The MM mounts on the back of the machine whereas the Felder mounts on the front. A reversing switch is included with the Felder so that you can use right hand mortise bits. A start/stop switch is included on the back of the MM for mortise opertion.

Setup was never an issue and it keeps its settings.
Hope this helps,
Steve"

The only additional information I would add is  the availability of insert cutterheads.  I talked at length with Felder about upgrading to the Silent Power head on my current machine at last years IWF but was told there are technical differences in my machine that precluded such an upgrade.  Felder told me they had been working with Byrd to develop the Shelix head but for whatever reason, it did not satisfy the tolerances Felder required so Felder developed their own.  Based on my observations at the IWF, I will say that the Felder Silent Power cutterhead is outstanding.  If I worked with a lot of figured material such as curly or birdseye maple, I would definitely get a spiral head to achieve the best possible surface. 

 

[Iceclimber]

I tried to join the Felder group yesterday or the day before and got hung up. Apparently you have to request to join the group then be approved. All this after you go through the headache of joining Yahoo groups. I did so and have yet to hear back.

Then about a hour ago i went through the whole thing again requesting to join the MiniMax group. Eventually the process stalled and after a couple more attempts i got frustrated and gave up. Yahoo is so archaic, even my grandmother does not know what Yahoo is

The Minimax group is still on Yahoo.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MiniMax-USA/info

It's worth joining if you are an owner or prospective owner.

 

[copcarcollector]

I tried to join the Felder group yesterday or the day before and got hung up. Apparently you have to request to join the group then be approved. All this after you go through the headache of joining Yahoo groups. I did so and have yet to hear back.

There is a new Felder forum, similar to the FOG, run by Sittingelf  http://hammerfelderowners.com/

 

[Iceclimber]

Thank you,

Just joined. Should be a great forum once the word gets out...

I tried to join the Felder group yesterday or the day before and got hung up. Apparently you have to request to join the group then be approved. All this after you go through the headache of joining Yahoo groups. I did so and have yet to hear back.

There is a new Felder forum, similar to the FOG, run by Sittingelf  http://hammerfelderowners.com/

 

[DJ]

I have a cu 300 and love it. There is a learning curve to get used to a sliding saw, but it once you learn, you will never go back to a traditional table saw. I can do tapered legs with no jigs in a jif. Cuts are exceptionally accurate. I love the joiner/ planner. A word on the tersa cutters. I have a 5hp planer with spiral heads, and I really can tell very little difference between the quality of the spiral vs tersa. The spiral is definitely quiter. I have plenty of space in my shop, but just prefer the combination concept.
I prefer minimax over hammer for several reasons.
Up to now minimax has come with pretty much everything you need to get going, hammer was more piece by piece, and in my research was more expensive. hammer looks way cooler, minimax is more tank like, which I prefer.
Minimax changes very little from year to year and they can replace anything regardless of age, not sure about hammer.
In my opinion, a good used minimax cu 300 is a great addition to any shop.

 

[newinwood]

I joint both Yahoo group with minimal headache, but it is not very user friendly forum - old and cumbersome to use. Difficult to find info. Definitely format of FOG much better and easier to use.

 

[Iceclimber]

Thanks for the info.

As of now the Minimax is more expensive. To be exact the minimax is $5300 with the Tersa as the Tersa is all it is offered with. The Hammer is $4350 with the silent cutter head.

The only other option i like on the Hammer is the digital height gauge. Yes its an option but at least Hammer offers a option as apposed to MiniMax that has only a metric scale.

I actually think the Hammer machine is kinda ugly. It looks a bit cheap to me. That may be because i like you prefer machines built more like tanks.

.

I have a cu 300 and love it. There is a learning curve to get used to a sliding saw, but it once you learn, you will never go back to a traditional table saw. I can do tapered legs with no jigs in a jif. Cuts are exceptionally accurate. I love the joiner/ planner. A word on the tersa cutters. I have a 5hp planer with spiral heads, and I really can tell very little difference between the quality of the spiral vs tersa. The spiral is definitely quiter. I have plenty of space in my shop, but just prefer the combination concept.
I prefer minimax over hammer for several reasons.
Up to now minimax has come with pretty much everything you need to get going, hammer was more piece by piece, and in my research was more expensive. hammer looks way cooler, minimax is more tank like, which I prefer.
Minimax changes very little from year to year and they can replace anything regardless of age, not sure about hammer.
In my opinion, a good used minimax cu 300 is a great addition to any shop.

 

[danjames]

I've got a minimax cu410 elite, accurate and definately an industrial machine.

Check out this link for more info:

http://solowoodworker.com/mm/index.html

[big grin]

 

[junk731]

I tried to join the Felder group yesterday or the day before and got hung up. Apparently you have to request to join the group then be approved. All this after you go through the headache of joining Yahoo groups. I did so and have yet to hear back.

I've been a member of the Felder Owners Group since 2008 when I bought my first machine a K700S. While many find it a pain it has the information that the new forum will have a hard time achieving. The owner/moderator John Rinzetti started the forum in 2000 and is well connected to Felder to the point of doing some demo videos for Felder America. Brian Lamb is moderator that donates his time to make sure its a secure place with no spam. Yes you have to be accepted but it doesn't cost anything, never has and the info is second to none. It is not the same as this forum and probably never will be. Its privately run with no input money from a big corporation and no paid fulltime moderator. Be patient in this instant world and the information you need will come, if not join the the new forum and get no information. Just for the record, Yahoo is not my favourite place but it has been steadily improving over the years.

John

 

[Iceclimber]

Hopefully my account will get approved.

No real rush as i am more in the deciding phase of this purchase still. The machine will not come till spring soonest most likely mid to early summer.

I am in or just outside Boston, at the moment the access to my shop is only a shovel width wide with 6-8ft snowbanks on either side!

I have a industrial SawStop i purchased last month just waiting to find its way into my shop.

I tried to join the Felder group yesterday or the day before and got hung up. Apparently you have to request to join the group then be approved. All this after you go through the headache of joining Yahoo groups. I did so and have yet to hear back.

I've been a member of the Felder Owners Group since 2008 when I bought my first machine a K700S. While many find it a pain it has the information that the new forum will have a hard time achieving. The owner/moderator John Rinzetti started the forum in 2000 and is well connected to Felder to the point of doing some demo videos for Felder America. Brian Lamb is moderator that donates his time to make sure its a secure place with no spam. Yes you have to be accepted but it doesn't cost anything, never has and the info is second to none. It is not the same as this forum and probably never will be. Its privately run with no input money from a big corporation and no paid fulltime moderator. Be patient in this instant world and the information you need will come, if not join the the new forum and get no information. Just for the record, Yahoo is not my favourite place but it has been steadily improving over the years.

John

 

[John H]

I also have a MiniMax cu 300 and I am happy with it - but it was an arduous process to get the machine in good working order.

MinMax builds industrial quality machines geared towards the hobbyist.  Even though you may be purchasing a machine that cost $5k, $10k, or $20k and up - you are basically a 'small fish' to them.  In the industrial machine world - if your brand new $10k machine is rusty, banged up, scratched, etc  - THEY DONT CARE.

There have been several posts on Saw Mill Creek about problems with MiniMax machines but most of them end up getting deleted.  I think this one is still active - and it is about a jointer/planer combo

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?226848-got-new-jointer-plainer-with-rusted-table-anti-kickback

If your considering the MiniMax you need to ask some hard questions up front.  What happens if you receive a rusty machine like that one,  What happens if the tables aren't coplaner.  What happens if the electric motor won't start.  If there are problems - who fixes it?  What happens if the salesman promises in writing (e-mail) that the machine has a particular option and when you take delivery of it - it doesn't?

Just some things to think about

 

[Iceclimber]

That is sime food for thought and something to really consider when spending large sums of money on something sight unseen and that will require maintenance over the course of its life.

Funny as my regonal rep suggested one reason to buy from him was that he is local and has a number of certified MiniMax techs on hand that can be avaialbe at tye drop of a dime. Thats all good and fine so long as the manufacturer is not the type to pass the buck when you have anlegit probelm.

Thanks for the additional info. Reality is you hope nothing goes wrong with the machine once you have it up and running and accept deliver. We all know that often things happen in transit or are not caught by quality control all the time. You buy from a company that does not assume responsability and you find yourself with a bitter taste in your mouth real quick.

I also have a MiniMax cu 300 and I am happy with it - but it was an arduous process to get the machine in good working order.

MinMax builds industrial quality machines geared towards the hobbyist.  Even though you may be purchasing a machine that cost $5k, $10k, or $20k and up - you are basically a 'small fish' to them.  In the industrial machine world - if your brand new $10k machine is rusty, banged up, scratched, etc  - THEY DONT CARE.

There have been several posts on Saw Mill Creek about problems with MiniMax machines but most of them end up getting deleted.  I think this one is still active - and it is about a jointer/planer combo

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?226848-got-new-jointer-plainer-with-rusted-table-anti-kickback

If your considering the MiniMax you need to ask some hard questions up front.  What happens if you receive a rusty machine like that one,  What happens if the tables aren't coplaner.  What happens if the electric motor won't start.  If there are problems - who fixes it?  What happens if the salesman promises in writing (e-mail) that the machine has a particular option and when you take delivery of it - it doesn't?

Just some things to think about