Apotheosis for the 'real' systainer.

[FestFan]

The familiair, trustworthy and very much appreciated classic systainer is on the verge of extinction. It will be replaced by the new T-loc that is being introduced at this moment. Festool will begin this introduction with size I. All the newly ordered tools from now on, that are put in this size (e.g. PS 300 Trion&RTS 400 orbital sander), will be outfitted with the new T-loc. After this one the rest of the systainer sizes will follow in a sloping order.

Once all the new T-loc sizes have been introduced, Festool will no longer support the classic model and will cease to produce the classic systainers. Already at their homeground they no longer offer the empty size I systainer: At the German Festool website the classic systainer size I is no longer mentioned, only the T-loc is shown. As of from size II, the classical ones are still around on the site.

The new T-loc systainers have some great beneficial qualities that the old systainers don't; they lock all four corners with the switch of just one knob and you don't need to bruise your fingers opening the latches are just 2 of them.
On the downside however; if you just so happened to have a considerable stack of the classic systainers, you'll only be able to put the new T-loc on top of that stack, since they don't fit in the middle or on the bottom. It is impossible to put an old model on top of a new one.
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Festool has been selling their products as single parts of a system. The systainer is a significant attribute of the bigger whole and has certain characteristics that will make it fit into this system. When these characteristics are tampered with, the system will collapse.
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Festool no longer posesses the exclusive rights of the systainer. By making a great invention as such, they convinced other companies to copy their idea and team up into using the systainer. This obviously has numerous benefits for the consumer and (unintentionally) Festool enlarged their system towards those other companies:
Bessey
Bosch
DeWalt
Fein
Ironside
K?rcher
Knipex
Kofferfunshop
Metabo
Mohawk
Oneida
Panasonic
Prebena
Protool

This thread is therefore intended to open a discussion that might persuade Festool not to pronounce the classical systainers to be redundant. The least they could do is listen to some solid arguments.

 

[nickao]

I have about 20 of the old systainers. Still, I am happy they are phasing them out. I hate the latches and they are bad enough for me to sit about 15 of them in a closet and never use them.

 

[Texastutt]

Looks nice but if Tanos still supplies the systainers someone must have lost the rights to produce.

 

[Frank Pellow]

Do we know whether or not Tanos will continue to make the old systainers as well as the new ones?

If they are going to continue making the "classic" systainers then, if Festool would provide the option throughout the world of purchasing a tool without a systainer, anyone who wants their new tools in a classic systainer could get such a systainer for their local Tanos dealer.

 

[Corwin]

...
The new T-loc systainers have some great beneficial qualities that the old systainers don't; they lock all four corners with the switch of just one knob and you don't need to bruise your fingers opening the latches are just 2 of them.
On the downside however; if you just so happened to have a considerable stack of the classic systainers, you'll only be able to put the new T-loc on top of that stack, since they don't fit in the middle or on the bottom. It is impossible to put an old model on top of a new one.
...

As I understand it, this statement is not quite accurate.  First off, these new T-Loc Systainers don't lock at all.  They latch.  This new latch in the front of these T-Loc Systainers captures a center catch, so the lids are held to the body at the rear hinges and this front center latch -- three points, not four.  When stacked to the top of a soon-to-be-dubbed "Classic" Systainer, the two are connected together at the four corners by the four latches on the lower "Classic" Systainer as we are accustomed.  However, when stacked to the top of another T-Loc Systainer, they will only be held at three locations.  The front latch of the lower T-Loc will turn up to engage a tab at the center of the upper T-Loc Systainer and the two tabs at the rear of the upper T-Loc Systainer will hook into a recess in the lid of the lower T-Loc Systainer.  So, the only connection that will be locked latched at all four corners will be the one between a T-Loc Systainer and a "Classic" Systainer that is directly below in the stack.

I'm all for progress, and I do see how these new latches at the center of the new T-Loc Systainers look like they will be much easier to operate.  But, I think this comes at a cost.  The three point connection between lid and body might not be as strong as the four-point connection of the current Systainers.  And the current "Classic" Systainers can only be stacked below the new T-Locs, thus limiting the stacking ability for all of Festool's current customers.  Then there's the issue of the Sortainers.  Updating the Sortainers to the T-Loc design will make them very inefficient, as that T-Loc demands a lot of precious real estate in the front of the Systainer -- same goes to the newer Rack Systainers.  So, I fail to see how this new T-Loc design is really a step towards progress.........

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I have about 20 of the old systainers. Still, I am happy they are phasing them out. I hate the latches and they are bad enough for me to sit about 15 of them in a closet and never use them.

I can free you up some closet space.

Or should I tell you how to make them easy to open?

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

You guys really care that much?

Just keep the stacks separate.

Once you get 3 or 4 it will make no difference.

Send your unwanted, out dated, so last week classic systainers to Auburn for me.

I will trade you old ones for new ones, makes no difference.

 

[junk731]

Sean Ackerman (The Tool Nut and Systainer World) posted on Sept. 7 that Tanos has no plans to phase out the classic systainer.

John

 

[Corwin]

I don't see this as a welcome feature to have to purchase a classic systainer with each future tool purchase.  And I don't see how the drawer systainers (sortainers) can possibly benefit from this new design.  These new T-Locs just don't fit within the Festool system.  And this change will negatively impact every current Festool owner.  Why would Festool  go forward with such a poor decision?

 

[nickao]

I am thinking of selling ALL my systainers. The ones not in the closet and in the shop don't even have tools in them. I keep my tools on a shelf or a drawer. I won't bring my Festools on a job site anyway, they are for the shop.

I have a combination of them from SYS1 to SYS4 and almost everyone is pristine out of the box new. I also have 1 each of the Sortainers which are used, but still look almost new.

The only reason I have not sold them to date is that it is a hassle to sell each one separately, then pack it up etc, etc. If someone wanted everyone at once I would sell them in a heart beat.   I have a minimum of 20. Then if I want later I can get the new ones that I like better.

 

[Henning]

If they are going to continue making the "classic" systainers then, if Festool would provide the option throughout the world of purchasing a tool without a systainer, anyone who wants their new tools in a classic systainer could get such a systainer for their local Tanos dealer.

This, to me, presents an easy solution to a rather complex problem. It should quickly and easily make sure that all we who have a lot of old systainers easily can continue to expand on those if we so wish. Problem solved.

 

[harry_]

I am thinking of selling ALL my systainers. The ones not in the closet and in the shop don't even have tools in them. I keep my tools on a shelf or a drawer. I won't bring my Festools on a job site anyway, they are for the shop.

I have a combination of them from SYS1 to SYS4 and almost everyone is pristine out of the box new. I also have 1 each of the Sortainers which are used, but still look almost new.

The only reason I have not sold them to date is that it is a hassle to sell each one separately, then pack it up etc, etc. If someone wanted everyone at once I would sell them in a heart beat.   I have a minimum of 20. Then if I want later I can get the new ones that I like better.

I dont know about having the use for 20 systainers, but I probably get talked into the sortainers if the price was just right.
PM me if you were being any kind of serious.

 

[cje]

On the downside however; if you just so happened to have a considerable stack of the classic systainers, you'll only be able to put the new T-loc on top of that stack, since they don't fit in the middle or on the bottom. It is impossible to put an old model on top of a new one.

For backward compatability I could imagine a flat interface 'board' that sits on top of a T-loc to connect to a classic. It will have a T-loc bottom and 4 latches at the top to attach to the bottom of a classic. No rubber latches like the cart has, but solid ones. They can be a shorter version of the latches of the classic, because there is no lid to bridge. As long as you don't mix T-locs and classics every other systainer in the stack, just a few of these interfaces would help  you out of 'problems'.

I while ago intended to build my own systainer-replacement, because I like to have my tools accessible from the front ISO the top. The announcement of a new version put that plan on hold, but after reading about the hassle with the T-locs I'm reconsidering it now. I'm a hobbyist, so there's no hurry and plenty of time to let the ideas mature....

Funny, by answering a few questions regarding the T-loc at the Tanos site I won a blue mini a few months ago, the classic, that is ;D

Best, CJ'60

 

[image132]

I don't see this as a welcome feature to have to purchase a classic systainer with each future tool purchase.  And I don't see how the drawer systainers (sortainers) can possibly benefit from this new design.  These new T-Locs just don't fit within the Festool system.  And this change will negatively impact every current Festool owner.  Why would Festool  go forward with such a poor decision?

If what Festfan said is true and if Festool don't redesign the sortainer somehow I would agree this would a huge step backwards because essentially Festool are stopping making the Sortainer.

However I have been doing some thinking. I remember reading somewhere that someone was worried about these T-lock systainers aren't going to be as strong as the previous ones when lifting multiple systainers. To my mind I think Festool have good right to make it weaker. It means that the systainer might be a little lighter and lets face it how many of you really carry a TS55 connected to a RO150 connected to a planer by hand without some sort of wheels? I'm betting just about no body.

So all the locking mechanism really has to do is to hold the the stack together while you roll it along on your CT26 or whatever. The only thing I would imagine you really would carry by hand would be for instance the RO150 and then the sandpaper systainer or the drill and the centrotec set which aren't going to be all that heavy.

The only thing I don't get is what is going to happen in for instance my situation. I own just about all the Festool I need but I don't have and what I want are the systainers that carry the sandpaper for my RO125. The problem is going to be now that the weaker/lighter t-lock is going to have be put on top holding/carrying the weight of the stronger/heavier classic systainer. So it is looking like I'm going to have to buy some T-locks :/

 

[nickao]

"I dont know about having the use for 20 systainers, but I probably get talked into the Sortainers if the price was just right.
PM me if you were being any kind of serious".

The shipping just won't make sense to NH. I have several people that have already contacted me about picking them up, which is going to be the way to go. I will not be able to ship them and charge less then you can get them through Festool.

I am going through the shop and putting a lot of stuff for sale, especially Inlay templates, routers and bits. All brand new, 90% of the stuff never used. If any one is interested in inlay they may be very interested in all the stuff I have. Shipping that stuff in a few Systainers would make sense.

I really can't wait to get my hands on one of the New T-locs.

 

[Wood_Junkie]

If what Festfan said is true and if Festool don't redesign the sortainer somehow I would agree this would a huge step backwards because essentially Festool are stopping making the Sortainer.

From a purely engineering standpoint, where would you possibly put the front handle?  Replace drawers?  It only makes sense Sortainers are not redesigned.  You would be getting less storage.  They generally are at the bottom or middle of a stack, though, so they aren't a box that ever needs to be unlatched.

... lets face it how many of you really carry a TS55 connected to a RO150 connected to a planer by hand without some sort of wheels? I'm betting just about no body.

I do this all the time.  As I move tools from shop to garage to car to backyard, or wherever, I often take them in a stack 3-4 tall up and down stairs.  Often I do this with a stack in each hand (e.g. moving 6-8 at once).  Heavy as heck, but less trips.

The T-loc mechanism is *probably* fine.  But it does seem risky to to put a bunch of weight on what essentially is a wedge sort of hinge.  The rear "hook" slides under the lower boxes' wedge and just sits there.  With enough force / weight it seems feasible that the top or bottom piece could fail, or even just make its way loose if the plastic flexed enough.

The only thing I don't get is what is going to happen in for instance my situation. I own just about all the Festool I need but I don't have and what I want are the systainers that carry the sandpaper for my RO125. The problem is going to be now that the weaker/lighter t-lock is going to have be put on top holding/carrying the weight of the stronger/heavier classic systainer. So it is looking like I'm going to have to buy some T-locks :/

Don't be silly.  Just peel those pesky labels off and swap your tools around to different cases.  ;-)

I find the default/included Systainer sometimes is a bit too cramped. 
Examples:  I moved the PS2E jigsaw into a Sys2, so I could store the various accessories.  Router bits and foam are in a Sys2, to hold taller bits.  My Domino assortment I actually moved down into a Sys1.  The LS130 is going straight into a Sys2 once the Fogtainers arrive.

 

[Wood_Junkie]

The only reason I have not sold them to date is that it is a hassle to sell each one separately, then pack it up etc, etc. If someone wanted everyone at once I would sell them in a heart beat.   I have a minimum of 20. Then if I want later I can get the new ones that I like better.

nickao,
Just a suggestion: a very efficient selling and packing method is to box them in side by side stacks, each equating to a Sys4.

This means two Sys2, a Sys3+Sys1, three Sys1s, or a Sys4.  Times two stacks.

Feasibly you could get up to six Systainers into a single package box, and shipping is pretty cheap since they're just empty (albeit large) boxes.  I think a big box that size, weighing only about 10-15 lbs shouldn't be too much.

If you would entertain this sort of selling/packing arrangement I would definitely be interested in some.

 

[bobbobbob]

Is it only me or has everyone overlooked the fact that Tanos made the systainers for Festool and will continue producing the 'classic' systainers?  [scratch chin]

 

[mouppe]

Bob,

I agree with you.

If I have 4 stacks of 4 classic systainers, and I get 4 new t-locs, I can put one of the new t-locs on each of the classic stacks, or now that I have 20 systainers in total, I can create a 5th stack of only t-locs. I can switch around the contents of the systainers to suit myself if I want something in particular at the top.

Sorry to flog a dead horse, but I just do not see why this is such a logistical nightmare for everyone.

By supporting the old line for the foreseeable future, that means we can get spare parts for the classic systainers. I really do not think that this move to T-locs means "the system will collapse."

 

[Frank Pellow]

Is it only me or has everyone overlooked the fact that Tanos made the systainers for Festool and will continue producing the 'classic' systainers?  [scratch chin]

It's not just you.  See my earlier  post in reply #3 in this thread.