Apotheosis for the 'real' systainer.

[FestFan]

Is it only me or has everyone overlooked the fact that Tanos made the systainers for Festool and will continue producing the 'classic' systainers?  [scratch chin]

You're right about that. Tanos will continue to make the original/classical/real systainer. Alledgely that is. I didn't emphasize this in the post that started this thread.

But that's not the point. The issue here is that Festool is pushing the T-loc into the market. If you buy a Festool, you'll get a T-loc. Like it or not. If you don't: You'll have to go out and spend money on an additional classic Festool systainer at Tanos... [sad].

 

[greg mann]

I don't see this as a welcome feature to have to purchase a classic systainer with each future tool purchase.  And I don't see how the drawer systainers (sortainers) can possibly benefit from this new design.  These new T-Locs just don't fit within the Festool system.  And this change will negatively impact every current Festool owner.  Why would Festool  go forward with such a poor decision?

Corwin, I don't see this as a problem. The Sortainers will latch to the bottom of the T-Loc, and that is where you will probably want them. The T-Loc will open easier, which is one of the complaints often cited about the present system. Three point attachment, new to new, should be adequate too. I have to believe Tanos/Festool has tested for the strength of the connection. Is there some inconvenience? Probably, but it isn't always possible to have seemless backward-compatibility when products are improved. I am guessing Tanos wanted to come up with a single latching system that improved upon 2 latches about which folks complained of chipped fingernails. Looks like this is it.

It reminds me of the whole thing about the MFTs. Everyone complained about them being too low, Festool announced the new model would be taller, and many talked about how best to shorten them. Michael K. remarked something like, "Now everyone is sharpening their pipe cutters." Cracked me up. We don't hear too much complaining about the new ones being too tall anymore and I think this will follow that pattern after a bit as well.

 

[mosez]

will it be possible to swap classic systainer inlays over to t-locs?

 

[Deansocial]

The familiair, trustworthy and very much appreciated classic systainer is on the verge of extinction. It will be replaced by the new T-loc that is being introduced at this moment. Festool will begin this introduction with size I. All the newly ordered tools from now on, that are put in this size (e.g. PS 300 Trion&RTS 400 orbital sander), will be outfitted with the new T-loc. After this one the rest of the systainer sizes will follow in a sloping order.

Once all the new T-loc sizes have been introduced, Festool will no longer support the classic model and will cease to produce the classic systainers. Already at their homeground they no longer offer the empty size I systainer: At the German Festool website the classic systainer size I is no longer mentioned, only the T-loc is shown. As of from size II, the classical ones are still around on the site.

The new T-loc systainers have some great beneficial qualities that the old systainers don't; they lock all four corners with the switch of just one knob and you don't need to bruise your fingers opening the latches are just 2 of them.
On the downside however; if you just so happened to have a considerable stack of the classic systainers, you'll only be able to put the new T-loc on top of that stack, since they don't fit in the middle or on the bottom. It is impossible to put an old model on top of a new one.
[attachimg=#]

Festool has been selling their products as single parts of a system. The systainer is a significant attribute of the bigger whole and has certain characteristics that will make it fit into this system. When these characteristics are tampered with, the system will collapse.
[attachimg=#]

Festool no longer posesses the exclusive rights of the systainer. By making a great invention as such, they convinced other companies to copy their idea and team up into using the systainer. This obviously has numerous benefits for the consumer and (unintentionally) Festool enlarged their system towards those other companies:
Bessey
Bosch
DeWalt
Fein
Ironside
K?rcher
Knipex
Kofferfunshop
Metabo
Mohawk
Oneida
Panasonic
Prebena
Protool

This thread is therefore intended to open a discussion that might persuade Festool not to pronounce the classical systainers to be redundant. The least they could do is listen to some solid arguments.

uk site tools in sys 1-3 are in t-locs

 

[image132]

will it be possible to swap classic systainer inlays over to t-locs?

No. I spoke to a Festool rep over here and I asked the exact same thing. His respones was something like "No the inlay will not fit the new T-lock systainer. You may be able to cut it in certain places to get it to fit but this is not suggested!"

See here look at the 5th post from the bottom. The picture on the left shows what is needed in the inlay for it to be T-lock compatible.

 

[Redfox]

Hi all,
How will the T-loc fit with the Maxi, the normal and the mini's all mixed up?

Cheers,
Jacques.

 

[waynelang2001]

Hi all,
How will the T-loc fit with the Maxi, the normal and the mini's all mixed up?

Cheers,
Jacques.

Seeing as how the T-loc fit ontop of the " old " systainer, it should work the same on the maxi. Not sure if the minis will fit into the T-loc........ We will have to wait and see.

 

[Michael_MA]

will it be possible to swap classic systainer inlays over to t-locs?

No. I spoke to a Festool rep over here and I asked the exact same thing. His respones was something like "No the inlay will not fit the new T-lock systainer. You may be able to cut it in certain places to get it to fit but this is not suggested!"

See here look at the 5th post from the bottom. The picture on the left shows what is needed in the inlay for it to be T-lock compatible.

Well, it would be a trajedy for Festool and all the dealers, if TANOS and FESTOOL would be so completely stupid and change not only the Systainer, but also the Inlays.

I can now say for the SYS1 T-LOC Systainer, every other SYS1 Classic Systainer inlay will perfectly fit !

i verified this with my Carvex inlay (brandnew=4-Mon) , and the Domino inlay (rather old=2 1/4 Years)
All groves and notches are perfectly copied to the SYS1 T-LOC Systainer, so no worries about that.

kind regards, Mike

 

[jmbfestool]

I have a few large systainers well because they are large of corse I can store more in them! Well I have one Classic systainer I call GUN!  That stores my FIRST fix Paslode and Second fix Dewalt nail guns plus both charges and 3 Dewalt batteries and 2 paslode  Also a couple off gasses and nails for both guns. Now as you can image it isnt going to be very light in weight.  

I tried to explain it in another topic but I couldnt do it very well so I have done a little picture.  

When I lift Gun systainer and I look at the side of it I can see the lid is bending like I have showed you on the picture below but because it has four lugs this is very small  but looking at the new T-lock it only has 3 points and one of them is at the front centre and I believe with my Gun weight in a T-lock systainer will make the lid do what I have shown you on the picture below.  I cant see it being as strong just one lug but I have not seen on in person yet so I cant really say.

[attachimg=#]

JMB

 

[image132]

will it be possible to swap classic systainer inlays over to t-locs?

No. I spoke to a Festool rep over here and I asked the exact same thing. His respones was something like "No the inlay will not fit the new T-lock systainer. You may be able to cut it in certain places to get it to fit but this is not suggested!"

See here look at the 5th post from the bottom. The picture on the left shows what is needed in the inlay for it to be T-lock compatible.

Well, it would be a tragedy for Festool and all the dealers, if TANOS and FESTOOL would be so completely stupid and change not only the Systainer, but also the Inlays.

I can now say for the SYS1 T-LOC Systainer, every other SYS1 Classic Systainer inlay will perfectly fit !

i verified this with my Carvex inlay (brandnew=4-Mon) , and the Domino inlay (rather old=2 1/4 Years)
All groves and notches are perfectly copied to the SYS1 T-LOC Systainer, so no worries about that.

kind regards, Mike

This is actually what the Festool rep said, cut and pasted. "The insert for the new T-Loc Systainer?s are different. However you might be able to trim one or the other to fit into the new Systainer?s, depending on machine type and shape of the insert. I wouldn?t do it as the there is nothing wrong with the existing Systainer?s and have also their advantages compared to the new ones. This you will be able to find out as soon as they are launched to the market."

Does it fit perfectly as in they engineered t-lock to fit the old inlay correctly or does it fit with some bending and little bit of misshaping? Because if the former is true why then why make classic systainer inlays with "t-lock" flaps that can be broken off like Festfan said in that link?

I have a few large systainers well because they are large of corse I can store more in them! Well I have one Classic systainer I call GUN!  That stores my FIRST fix Paslode and Second fix Dewalt nail guns plus both charges and 3 Dewalt batteries and 2 paslode  Also a couple off gasses and nails for both guns. Now as you can image it isnt going to be very light in weight.  

I tried to explain it in another topic but I couldn't do it very well so I have done a little picture.  

When I lift Gun systainer and I look at the side of it I can see the lid is bending like I have showed you on the picture below but because it has four lugs this is very small  but looking at the new T-lock it only has 3 points and one of them is at the front centre and I believe with my Gun weight in a T-lock systainer will make the lid do what I have shown you on the picture below.  I cant see it being as strong just one lug but I have not seen on in person yet so I cant really say.

JMB

I honestly think that Festool are still trying to sort out the strength issue. To my mind that is why they have only released the smaller t-lock systainers and are holding back on the bigger ones. I mean why else only do the smaller ones, what difference does it make to release them slowly vs all at once? I guess we will wait and see.

 

[greg mann]

I honestly think that Festool are still trying to sort out the strength issue. To my mind that is why they have only released the smaller t-lock systainers and are holding back on the bigger ones. I mean why else only do the smaller ones, what difference does it make to release them slowly vs all at once? I guess we will wait and see.

The lids are all made in the same tooling but the bottoms of these systainers are made in discreet tooling for each size, and they are not inexpensive to make. Once you have a lid mold you can oviously make lids but the bottom molds will each need to be replaced. It appears Tanos/Festool has decided to do these one at a time. They are probably using the Sys1 to make sure they have everything just right before they make the bigger and more expensive molds.

 

[greg mann]

I have a few large systainers well because they are large of corse I can store more in them! Well I have one Classic systainer I call GUN!  That stores my FIRST fix Paslode and Second fix Dewalt nail guns plus both charges and 3 Dewalt batteries and 2 paslode  Also a couple off gasses and nails for both guns. Now as you can image it isnt going to be very light in weight.  

I tried to explain it in another topic but I couldnt do it very well so I have done a little picture.  

When I lift Gun systainer and I look at the side of it I can see the lid is bending like I have showed you on the picture below but because it has four lugs this is very small  but looking at the new T-lock it only has 3 points and one of them is at the front centre and I believe with my Gun weight in a T-lock systainer will make the lid do what I have shown you on the picture below.  I cant see it being as strong just one lug but I have not seen on in person yet so I cant really say.

[attachimg=#]

JMB

JMB,

It may seem counter-intuitive but the new system may result in a stronger lid than before. The handle is now in the middle of a 3 point attachment system, think of it as pulling up the middle of a triangle that will have shorter vectors between the handle and the attachment points as opposed to a rectangle with the four points, with two of the four points further away from the handle. If you visualize that triangle, with two legs running from the front latch back to the hinges, there will not be a lot of extra real estate the handle won't be covering inside that triangle.

 

[Michael_MA]

I have a few large systainers well because they are large of corse I can store more in them! Well I have one Classic systainer I call GUN!  That stores my FIRST fix Paslode and Second fix Dewalt nail guns plus both charges and 3 Dewalt batteries and 2 paslode  Also a couple off gasses and nails for both guns. Now as you can image it isnt going to be very light in weight.  

I tried to explain it in another topic but I couldnt do it very well so I have done a little picture.  

When I lift Gun systainer and I look at the side of it I can see the lid is bending like I have showed you on the picture below but because it has four lugs this is very small  but looking at the new T-lock it only has 3 points and one of them is at the front centre and I believe with my Gun weight in a T-lock systainer will make the lid do what I have shown you on the picture below.  I cant see it being as strong just one lug but I have not seen on in person yet so I cant really say.

[attachimg=#]

JMB

JMB,

It may seem counter-intuitive but the new system may result in a stronger lid than before. The handle is now in the middle of a 3 point attachment system, think of it as pulling up the middle of a triangle that will have shorter vectors between the handle and the attachment points as opposed to a rectangle with the four points, with two of the four points further away from the handle. If you visualize that triangle, with two legs running from the front latch back to the hinges, there will not be a lot of extra real estate the handle won't be covering inside that triangle.

Very well explained, Thanks Greg, it seems the people at Tanos and Festool have discovered the magic of FEM and the result is impressive..
Her is a small example with a non-rocket-science technology to put strain on a T-LOC Sys1 Systainer Lid. The weight overall added to aprox 70lb ~ 35 Kg on my digital bathroom scale.

so one can see, there is some bending on the lid, but with the perfect explanation fo Greg it is understandable why the T-LOC's are at least as stable as the Classics. under the T-LOC, there was my "Werkzeug"(=german for Toolbox) - Tainer and my OF2200 (heavy beast) with the OF2200 accessoires underneath.

 

[Frank Pellow]

JMB,

It may seem counter-intuitive but the new system may result in a stronger lid than before. The handle is now in the middle of a 3 point attachment system, think of it as pulling up the middle of a triangle that will have shorter vectors between the handle and the attachment points as opposed to a rectangle with the four points, with two of the four points further away from the handle. If you visualize that triangle, with two legs running from the front latch back to the hinges, there will not be a lot of extra real estate the handle won't be covering inside that triangle.

Greg, I think that you may be correct about this.  Thanks for the explanation.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Micheal, nice pics. Now how about doing those same pics with a classic sys 1 on top and the same heavy werkzeug-tainer under it to compare?

 

[jmbfestool]

I understand the triangle bit your on about but the picture does show what I was on about how the lid would bend at the front side.  Like Alex said I would love to see it the other way round with just the same weight and see how much flex the classic lid will be.

Thanks for the Demo picture any way!

JMB

 

[jmbfestool]

I was just looking at the pictures and just noticed something! the bottom lug of the T-lock for another T-lock to attach to is exposed. 

Like I said I aint seen it in person but I dont know about you but some times I slide things into my van either the systainer or other object.  Well the lug isnt protect so the lug could get knocked off. Unlike the classic systainers the lugs are set in which give them abit of protection.

Just another Thought!!! Another criticism  [scratch chin] lol

JMB

 

[bobbobbob]

Good observation!  I noticed that the T-Loc systainer is 'floating' above the classic systainer.  In one of the photos it looks like the front feet are even out of their recessed locations in the lid of the classic sys.  Is there a feeling of 'looseness' or instability when the T-Loc is on top of the stack?  This is not something I have experienced with any of my classic systainers.  Maybe this only happens with a T-Loc sys 1 on top of the stack due to the smaller heighth locking pegs for the classic?

 

[greg mann]

Thanks for the pictures, Michael, but I must say the length of the handle negates my theory just a bit. It seems to me a slightly shorter handle would have resulted in less distortion. That said, 70 lbs. is way more than I will ever want to carry in a Sys stack.

 

[jmbfestool]

Thanks for the pictures, Michael, but I must say the length of the handle negates my theory just a bit. It seems to me a slightly shorter handle would have resulted in less distortion. That said, 70 lbs. is way more than I will ever want to carry in a Sys stack.

Yes it does. The distance of your triangle theory is longer from the handle than the distance 4 lugs would be which is what I thought thats why the classic lid will bend less but like I said twice before I ain't seen it in person but the picture shows what I was on about any way.  I thought it was funny why people were agreeing with you even though your theory would of been correct with a shorter handle I couldnt understand even after the picture showed you that the handle was to long they agreed with you  [huh]  (Frank Pellow)

JMB