band saws

[b_m_hart]

I've been looking at bandsaws, and am interested in eventually adding one.  My constraints are that it has to fit on top of my work area (no floor space for a dedicated stand).  I've been looking at a few of them, and the Grizzly 14" bandsaw caught my attention.  It looks like it would be a PITA to lug up and down, but that's OK, I can deal.  The one thing that I'm curious about, is that it has an extender kit that increases the re-saw capacity to 12".

I realize that you can only cut through so much wood before you have to worry about needing more power.  I'm curious to know if anyone is familiar with this bandsaw (or brand in general), and what their thoughts are.  I don't intend to do any heavy duty work with this, it's mainly a toy to re-saw when it's needed.

 

[johnsonri]

b_m_hart,

I don't have the Grizzly, but I have a Delta with similiar specs. I added the riser block to it to increase resaw capacity. It works out very well.

I bought the riser block at the same time as the bandsaw, so I never really used the bandsaw without the extra capacity.

Also, I added Carter bandsaw guides and that made a tremendous difference for my accuracy with the bandsaw. The Carter guides made a night and day difference!!

 

[cflansbaum]

I used to have that Bandsaw but wanted more resaw height.  I just couldn't fit an additional Bandsaw into my shop and while eventually I'd like a dedicated 19" machine just for resawing, I needed something more versatile.

I settled on Grizzly's 14" 2 HP Deluxe Bandsaw which has a 10" capacity.

2 things - if I understand you correctly, you want more of a benchtop machine?  Either one of these machines would need to be bolted to something, as they both have quite a bit of vibration to them.  Also, while I do like my new machine, it takes a custom size blade which limits you to Grizzly blades or ordering custom sizes.

Carl

 

[b_m_hart]

I will make a "dedicated spot" for it on my table - somewhere to bolt it down.  My primary concern is to avoid something that's too heavy to occasionally lug up from the floor.

 

[fidelfs]

I had the GO555 "The Ultimate Band Saw", well it became "The last Band Saw I will buy from Grizzly".  I sold it and got a Rikon 14".

The Rikon is a real band saw.  I tried to tune up the GO555 with no success so many times, the Rikon is easy to tune up it has 13" resaw capabilities.  I had resawn maple, walnut with no problem.  I know it is more money for the Rikon and if you don't want to spend that kind of money, another brand will do it.  Grizzly has to type of machines, the cheap ones (this band saw is in this category) and the heavy duty line (the pro line).  The pro line are good machines.

8)

 

[b_m_hart]

I had the GO555 "The Ultimate Band Saw", well it became "The last Band Saw I will buy from Grizzly".  I sold it and got a Rikon 14".

The Rikon is a real band saw.  I tried to tune up the GO555 with no success so many times, the Rikon is easy to tune up it has 13" resaw capabilities.  I had resawn maple, walnut with no problem.  I know it is more money for the Rikon and if you don't want to spend that kind of money, another brand will do it.  Grizzly has to type of machines, the cheap ones (this band saw is in this category) and the heavy duty line (the pro line).  The pro line are good machines.

8)

Looks like that one is going to weigh well over 200 lbs - I can't imagine trying to heft that guy up off of the floor and onto my table.

What about the 10" bandsaw from Rikon?  It looks like it has the ability to increase it's re-saw capacity.  How can you tell whether or not you can mod it to increase it, and how do you figure out how much extra you can get from doing so?  Is there some guideline (like, you can typically double it, for example)?

I'm thinking that 12-13" re-saw capacity would be great, but can definitely settle for less.  I get the feeling that I'm going to have to, given my space constraints.

 

[fidelfs]

The 10" won't have the power to resaw.  It has only 1/3 HP.

I have my 14 on a mobile base and it is a breeze to move.  It has similar dimension that the Grizzly.

Grizzly: H 66-1/2"  W 26-3/8"    D 30-1/4"        210 lbs.
Rikon:  H 75"        W 30"          D 25"  Weight  251 lbs.

As you see they have almost the same foot print.

 

[b_m_hart]

The 10" won't have the power to resaw.  It has only 1/3 HP.

I have my 14 on a mobile base and it is a breeze to move.  It has similar dimension that the Grizzly.

Grizzly: H 66-1/2"  W 26-3/8"     D 30-1/4"        210 lbs.
Rikon:   H 75"        W 30"           D 25"  Weight  251 lbs.

As you see they have almost the same foot print.

I was assuming that 40-50lbs of that number was from the stands on each of those saws.  Further, when the saw won't be in use, it will be on the floor.  Not on a stand - I don't have room for that.  Basically, I have a 4' x 8' table that is for everything (breaking down sheet goods, will be my 'table saw' soon enough, I'm building in the router table and incra ls positioner this weekend) and the space around it is VERY minimal.

Footprint isn't as important to me as the ability to lift it up and bolt it onto my table (I'll put threaded inserts into it that will be dedicated to bolt it down when it's in use).  From there, the next area of importance is re-saw capacity.  Of course, I am not going to buy a piece of garbage, I made that mistake a couple of times already, and I'd like to not do it again, because it's less expensive to buy once rather than twice, and I don't have to pay to buy more raw materials after having chewed them up.

 

[Tinker]

b_m_hart, Am I understanding correctly?  Are you planning to set your 14" BS up on a work bench that is at a working height for doing all of your other WW'ing?

I have a 16" Reliant.  From the bottom flange where it bolts on to its base to the cast iron table is 21 ".  I would assume that the like measurement for a 14" would be +/- 19".  If you were to place the 14" saw on a bench that is in the 31" (mine are about 31-1/2") to 35" of a MFT/3, that would give you a working height of atleast 50" to the cast iron table of your saw.  If you are seven feet tall, that might be a comfortable height for you.  Otherwise, i am wondering if you might do well to put your thinking cap on and figure to build a base on casters so you can move the saw into/out of your working space.  I think the weight of the saw might not be as much of a problem for you as the working height if you are setting it up onto a work bench.

I also have a small bench top 9' or 10" BS.  i loaned it to my friend for a few years until he cashed in all his chips.  He used that old Delta/Rockwell/DeWalt (yes, that is the name on the tag, so you can guess how old.  It is over 60) for resawing up to 4" or 5" oak and walnut among others.  Very slow, but for his projects, doable.  My Reliant 16" is somewhat underpowered, but I have little problem in resawing (slowwwwly) up to 7 0r 8" oak.  Up to 10" (12" capacity) pine and poplar.  The main thing is use sharp blades and check tension.  don't try to force.  After all that, if the chap with the Rikon ever gets tired of all of the problems I am sure he will eventually have  : I would be very happy to relieve him of those problems  ;D

BTW, you can get blades to fit any BS.  I just tried to look up the company where I get my blades, but it is not accessable in my upgraded computer.  If you are interested, I can look it up when i am thru here and thru with my days bookkeeping.  i get Timberwolfs, but don't have company supplying right off top of my head
Tinker

 

[b_m_hart]

b_m_hart, Am I understanding correctly?  Are you planning to set your 14" BS up on a work bench that is at a working height for doing all of your other WW'ing?

I have a 16" Reliant.  From the bottom flange where it bolts on to its base to the cast iron table is 21 ".  I would assume that the like measurement for a 14" would be +/- 19".  If you were to place the 14" saw on a bench that is in the 31" (mine are about 31-1/2") to 35" of a MFT/3, that would give you a working height of atleast 50" to the cast iron table of your saw.  If you are seven feet tall, that might be a comfortable height for you.  Otherwise, i am wondering if you might do well to put your thinking cap on and figure to build a base on casters so you can move the saw into/out of your working space.  I think the weight of the saw might not be as much of a problem for you as the working height if you are setting it up onto a work bench.

I also have a small bench top 9' or 10" BS.  i loaned it to my friend for a few years until he cashed in all his chips.  He used that old Delta/Rockwell/DeWalt (yes, that is the name on the tag, so you can guess how old.  It is over 60) for resawing up to 4" or 5" oak and walnut among others.  Very slow, but for his projects, doable.  My Reliant 16" is somewhat underpowered, but I have little problem in resawing (slowwwwly) up to 7 0r 8" oak.  Up to 10" (12" capacity) pine and poplar.  The main thing is use sharp blades and check tension.  don't try to force.  After all that, if the chap with the Rikon ever gets tired of all of the problems I am sure he will eventually have  : I would be very happy to relieve him of those problems  ;D

BTW, you can get blades to fit any BS.  I just tried to look up the company where I get my blades, but it is not accessable in my upgraded computer.  If you are interested, I can look it up when i am thru here and thru with my days bookkeeping.  i get Timberwolfs, but don't have company supplying right off top of my head
Tinker

Well, I am 6'2" when I stand up straight, but I hear what you're saying.  That throws a wrench in my works, for sure.  I'll have to figure that one out.

Back on topic of bandsaws, though - from what I gather, the grizzly isn't so hot, but the rikon is a much better bet (in terms of quality)?

 

[clev1066]

The best advise I can give anyone on this is to try to find a used Delta, preferably vintage, and put it on a mobile base. It doesn't have that much of a footprint, can be parked in a spot and moved to a work area, parts are going to always be available, and the build quality is better on the older American machines. I have a 1947 model 14" Delta on a mobile base that literally follows me around the shop. I don't have a good space to dedicate to it, so I park it at the end of my bench and move it if it gets in the way.

 

[Greg_R]

You say that resaw capability is your 2nd most important criteria.  IMO you will not be happy with a bandsaw that you can pick up and move.  Look into the more heavy duty bandsaw options and build/buy a good mobile base.  I would look at bandsaws in the 16"-18" range.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

I'll second two comments from above:
1)buying custom length bandsaw blades is not a big deal, most suppliers will do that for you.
2)if you really intend to do much resawing, a bench top saw probably won't cut it.

Couple of things more,  good resaw capability needs the ability to put a lot of tension on a blade, which means a hefty frame on the saw and a strong tension spring, it also needs horsepower - I wouldn't look below 1.5hp.

Best book available on bandsaws is free.  Call Iturra Designs (866-883-8064) and ask for a catalog.  Luis Iturra is the granddaddy of bandsaw gurus and loves to get on the soapbox about how they work.  The catalog is a wealth of info, tips, and useful products.  He sells custom length bandsaw blades, too.

 

[Loren Hedahl]

My take on this is you can either buy a small light weight saw with built in motor that you can lift up and install on a bench when you want to use it 

-- OR  -- 

you can buy a large, heavy-weight saw, at least with 14 inch wheels, with a separate motor on a stand that will re-saw.

Pick one.

I don't know of any other options.

 

[James Watriss]

I will start by saying that I think that there are a lot of really decent 14" band saws on the market right now. And having had an overloaded basement shop, an almost big enough rented shop space, and my current, shared space, I can say that if I had to choose between a table saw and a band saw as the primary tool for a small shop, the band saw wins hands down.

Jet just introduced a model that has a solid cast iron frame that's basically the same size it would be with riser blocks... but it's solid. I'd start there, and upgrade guides and fence and so forth as you need. Or, wait for the powermatic version of the same saw... both companies are owned by the same parent company, but the Powermatic model is loaded down with Carter upgrades (guides, quick tension release, tire brushes, etc) as well as having a light, an air nozzle, and a dual voltage 1.5 hp motor. It's a monster of a 14, and it'll give you all the room you need to grow, versus other saws that you'll eventually find issues with. I like my powermatic almost as much as my Laguna 18", but for much different reasons. They're very different tools.

I looked at the Grizzly just now, it weighs 167 pounds. Without the stand, you're still probably looking at lifting and moving 150 lbs, regularly. If your shop floor looks like my shop floor does sometimes, that's just asking for trouble. One scrap in the wrong place means a turned ankle, and probably a trip to the hospital to fix whatever part of you catches the saw, and to put your spine back into alignment from whatever tweaks it gets, trying to compensate while the saw goes down.

Score:

Floor: 2 (You, and the saw, will probably both be broken.)
You: Hospital bills

Here's my take on it. As you've defined your requirements, the performance you're going to get from your band saw is going to be determined, from here on out, by your back. And as soon as you're injured, or too tired, or don't feel like clearing out the stuff that's collected around your saw, you're screwed. The human body is NOT a good variable to insert into any machine's performance equation.

I can certainly relate to space saving issues. But I'm also very sensitive to injury issues in the shop, and what you're talking about is really just begging for trouble. At best, you're going to have to settle for a 10" benchtop saw with 4" of resaw... which won't matter worth a damn because the motor won't be powerful enough to saw 4" of wood with anything resembling speed or finesse, and you'll spend your days burning up blades that aren't being driven fast enough as a result.

The band saw has probably the least amount of demand for real estate in terms of how much space it takes up. BUT, if you want to deal in resaw, you need to deal with infeed and outfeed, and you start running into either real problems on one end or the other, or you'll have to go through all kinds of bizarre gymnastic and mechanically assisted compensation measures to make it work.

I propose a mathematical theorem, for your consideration.

(Effort to Lift Band Saw regularly) + (Effort to Use Band Saw regularly) + (Hassles of Using an Underpowered Band Saw)  >  (Effort to Redesign Shop, or Work)

The cumulative sum of the above will FAR outweigh a little time and effort in re-evaluating your shop space. Maybe you've got your space configured in a way that's preventing you from operating efficiently or safely.  Or, you need to examine what will need to go in your shop to make room for your bandsaw. Or, maybe you need to examine your dedication to the shop and the work, and decide if you need to move the shop to a different part of your home.

It's a pretty common phenomenon for woodworkers in particular to outgrow their own particular fish tank. I think the best way to go about it is to pull everything out of the shop temporarily, and start inserting the things you deem to be requirements, first. Fit the rest in if you can. Sell the rest, or put it into storage until the day you can afford more space.

It sounds to me like you've grown enough as a woodworker that it's time to re-evaluate things that were a priority for you before. It's like puberty... it's obnoxious, and awkward, and it's kinda like starting all over again. But you're also trying to enter a world that offers more promise, and more freedoms and personal abiities than what you have now... not to mention later bedtimes. : )

 

[biladam]

I have checked Powermatic 1791257 band saws and it has following specifications

   * Cutting Capacity Width: 20 "
   * Minimum Saw Blade Width: 1/4 "
   * Maximum Saw Blade Width: 1-1/2 "
   * Blade Speed: 2000 / 4000 SFPM
   * Blade Length: 158-1/2 "
   * Table Dimension (LxW): 24 x 24 "
   * Table Tilt: 10 ? left, 45 ? right
   * Table Height at 90?: 35-1/4 "
   * Miter Gauge Positive Stops: 45 ?, 90 ?
   * Dust Port Outer Diameter: 4 "
   * Dust Collection Minimum CFM: 600 cu.ft/min
   * Stand Type: Enclosed
   * Thickness Capacity (max): 12 3/8 "
   * Blade Width: 1/4 to 1-1/2
   * Motor Power: 2 HP
   * Motor Voltage: 230 V
   * Motor Phase: 1 Ph
   * Overall Dimensions:43 x 31 x 81
   * Height: 81 inch
   * Width: 31 inch
   * Length: 43 inch

That's why i am preferring this

 

[Aegwyn11]

Not to profess to be a bandsaw expert, but it would look like I'm preparing to buy one as well. The Powermatics seem really well reviewed (call me retarded, but I hate the yellow color...). I'm almost certain I'm going to end up with the Hammer N4400. My shop is pretty small as well, but I'm honestly a bit confused as to why a bandsaw is of concern for shop space. The space they eat up is mostly vertical, and like anything else, you can put them on wheels pretty easy so that they can get out of the way when not in use. I'm honestly a bit confused why anyone would even entertain the idea of lifting a 100+ lb tool from floor to bench and back when the tool itself only eats up a few square feet of space in an unused corner if on wheels.