Beginner considering a bookshelf project - Need advice

[Kodi Crescent]

Hi.

I'm a DIY'er about to begin an attic built-in bookshelf project.  My only "box" building experience involves building a toy box for my children, and other than the lid slamming down on their hands, it turned out pretty well.

I'd like some feedback regarding my proposed work method.  I can talk myself into saying "this method is a great idea!", but I want some other, more objective, more experienced feedback.

The space I'm planning on filling will have 4 bookshelf-type units.  The first will be a unit to hold audio components.  It will be sized differently than the remaining 3 units.  The other 3 units will (hopefully) be identical.  These will all be painted when finished.

I'll be building this out of 3/4 baltic birch plywood.  I have a proposed work method.  Please provide feedback as to whether it would work or not, pitfalls, etc.

- I'll be using a TS 75 on 2 MFT/3's.  I plan on stacking 3 sheets of the BB, aligning the edges, and then fastening them somehow  for gang cutting.  I'm investigating what method to use to fasten them together so that my parts will come out consistently.

I have an 18g finish nailer.  I could use it, but then I'd have to deal with hole filling.  That may be something I have to deal with.

I'm considering a Cadex pinner to use the slight head pins, but I'm concerned the pins won't hold during these operations. 

I could also use double stick tape.  I'm concerned that the double stick tape would shear or move, and hence throw the operation off slightly.

I could use plain old clamps, but I'll may need to move the gangs of items between operations, and I'm concerned about losing alignment.

I plan on keeping all the parts ganged together until I begin with shelf hole drilling.  I'd appreciate any advice on what fastener to use, and what to avoid for the fasteners.

- I plan on marking out the parts on the boards, full size.  There will be some space between each part to allow for waste, squaring, etc.  I plan on rough cutting each of the part stacks out to ease moving them.  But the parts will remain in the 3 sheet stacks. 

- After rough cutting, I'll cut a lengthwise cut into the ganged unit to establish a straight edge to base further squaring operations on.  I'll call this the "reference edge".

- I'll set my parallel guide set to the final cut width.  Basing the parallel guides off the reference edge, I'll place the parallel guides and rail on the items, clamp the rail, and cut.  I should have my final width.

- I'll then place the ganged bunch on my MFT/3, and cross cut one of the ends to square the end.

- I'll then measure my final length, and set a stop on the MFT/3.  I'll place the ganged set in place, clamp, and then make my final cross cut to final length.

I figure that if all goes well, I'll have square, matched parts that are interchangeable.  It all sounds good in my head.  I wanted to run it by all of you who actually have done this to see if this is a good idea, or if I'm missing anything.

So...am I missing anything?  How does this method sound to the rest of you?

Any comments or advice would be great!  Thanks!

 

[tjbnwi]

3 sheets of 3/4's is a lot of weight. Glad I'm not muscling that sandwich around.

The 2 sided tape works very well. I use the 3M heavy duty. Do not try to pull it off the sheet, "roll" it off the sheet. I sometimes end up using a putty knife to split the tape to get the pieces separated.

The sheets have to be supported perfectly flat, any droop will show in the cut.

I don't own parallel guides and rip pieces to an matching width constantly. I would not sandwich the sheets.

Make sure you do a cleaning/straightening cut on the reference edge. The tab on the kick back stop that came with your TS is great for setting the rail for the cleaning/straightening cut.

Tom

Changed tap to tab.

 

[mlfaber]

Why gang them together?  Why not establish a reference edge first on the 3 sheets, and then with the parallel guides and the MFT's you should have know problem establishing identical cuts on the separate pieces.  With careful attention to your setup I think this would be easier than trying to keep the 3 sheets together.  You could also cut a "master piece" and then using a router and flush trim bit, trim the other two pieces.  I just think trying to keep that sandwich together could produce more of a headache than needs to be.

 

[ScotF]

Unless you are under some time constraint I agree with others and would avoid sandwiching the ply together...that is a hefty stack to move around.  With the PG's set up and calibrated you should get consistent results with no issue ripping them off separately and I do not think it adds that much to the timing.  I would rip a clean edge and then use the PGs to rip the width of each side/shelf.  Then use the MFT/3 to square the ends.  If you are going to sandwich them together the double stick tape works and I agree with the other recommendation to roll it off the sheet.

Scot

 

[semenza]

By the time you set up for the gang cutting you will end up taking more time than just doing them seperately. You shouldn't have much trouble getting all the pieces within a 64th or better especially since you have the parallel guides to help  on repeat cuts.  If you were gang cutting a lot of sheets on a regular basis and had the method  all figured out etc, that would be different.

Seth

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Thank you all!  I won't gang cut them.  I'm glad I asked.

One of you mentioned "cleaning up the edge".  Clean it up how?  Light sanding?

If I'm doing these individually I can use my TS 55.  Much lighter.

 

[galwaydude18@gmail.com]

By taking a couple of mm off one edge so that its a straight reference to work off. In other words if you cut the sheet in the 8' length take a couple of mm off that edge by joining up two rails to do it in one pass

 

[tjbnwi]

This stop came with;

http://www.tool-home.com/products/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/8035

I use it to set the rail off an edge. You do not care if the rail is square, you are just creating a reference edge. Once you have the reference edge, all of your cuts are off of that edge. Once all your rips are done, square is easy.

The pictures show how I use the stop to set the rail. Use this method to set the rail at each end of the sheet. Once you set one edge eyeball the rail straight, set your saw on the rail at the set end, set the opposite end, double check first end. By setting the saw on the rail it keeps the rail from "walking" on the sheet.

Tom

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I see what you're saying now.  I re-read the replies and didn't read them correctly.

Yes, my first cut will be to establish that reference edge to base my other cuts off of.

 

[Jonhilgen]

If you don't have an mdf, a Qwas square is a great full-in.  It allows you to make square cuts easily, and stores on a rail.  Truly one of the best aftermarket add ons available.

Jon

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I have an MFT, but that looks very handy for times when I don't want to drag that around.

I have another question regarding the carcass construction.  I'd really like to avoid screws if possible.
The carcasses I'm going to build will be around 52" tall and 30" wide.  I plan on using Dominos or dadoes.  I haven't decided yet.

I don't own any large clamps (yet), which brings me to ask about construction.  I was planning on sandwiching the 52" sides between the 30" tops and bottoms.  This would require multiple 52" + clamps (or I could build some sort of "bridge" to use shorter clamps).  If I sandwiched the top and bottom between the sides, I could use 30"+ clamps, which are cheaper. 

Does it matter if the sides are sandwiched between the top and bottom or vice versa?

Are there other "clamping" methods that would work?  For example, I saw in a post somewhere where Brice said he used Dominos for construction, then shot a 23g pin through each side of the domino to hold the system together without clamps.  Anyone else tried anything like this? 

I do plan on getting some squaring clamps to hold everything square while things dry.

 

[tiralie]

If I sandwiched the top and bottom between the sides, I could use 30"+ clamps, which are cheaper. 
Does it matter if the sides are sandwiched between the top and bottom or vice versa?

There is an argument to be made for either way. I always assemble a cabinet carcass with the sides over the top bottom etc. but it's easier to assemble the other way because there is less chance of error on measuring the final width for the cabinet because you don't have to worry about subtracting the width of the sides etc.
I would make sure which ever method you choose to edge before you cut to size and assemble the box. It's just easier.
Tim

 

[ScotF]

Agree with Tim.  Putting the edging on before assembly is the way to go.  I have assembled both ways before, but prefer the top to appear continuous with a small strip of edging rather than a 3/4 piece.  You might consider adding a couple of long clamps to your arsenal regardless as you might need to clamp corner to corner to help square the assembly.

Scot

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I'm not sure I'm following regarding the edging.  Are you referring to gluing on some sort of edge banding before the final cut to length instead of making a face frame out of 3/4 material and attaching after carcass assembly?

In regards to the face frame edging, I may need to stack cabinets.  These are going in a short wall in a finished attic.  I just realized that the sloping roofline will affect my depth near the top, and thus I'll have to stack smaller cabinets onto larger ones.  I had planned on covering the junction with face frame trim.

 

[tiralie]

I'm not sure I'm following regarding the edging. 

Kodi:
Sorry, my assumption (for some strange reason) was that you were making frame-less cabinets which usually (not always) requires edging...there is also an argument to making your face frames first and then make your carcasses fit them. I don't like to do it that way but there is merit to it.

Tim

 

[tjbnwi]

Don't forget to deduct the thickness of your face frame from your total depth. If you use a dado, that alters the depth also.

The sides cover the tops and bottoms on my cabs.

Tom

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I have a question about clamps.  Clamps aren't cheap, and not something that I'm excited to spend a lot of money on, especially after the dough I'm spending on this for tools to do a good job.

I'm considering using the Jet Parallel clamps.  To glue a box do I need 4 of them (clamp pressure in 4 directions on under assembly), or 8 of them (4 under, 4 over)?

 

[ScotF]

I think it depends on how wide the box sides are.  For a 12 inch wide assembly I would use 4 clamps typically -- two on the top and two on the bottom.  The Jet clamps are good, but do not be afraid to use typical bar clamps if you want to save money -- 3/4 inch pipe is pretty cheap and the clamps are not all that expensive.  The benefit of this type is you can go really long if you need to and less cost than the bar clamps.  I often turn to my bar clamps when a special length arises and I relied on them solely when I first got into woodworking...I think glue knocks off of the Jet style OK, but I have Bessey Clamps that have glue on them and they are a nightmare to get to work properly.  Glue on the clamps is not an issue with bar style either as it knocks off pretty easily. 

Scot

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Kodi

A common error made by many, even some professionals, is forgetting to take account of the weight/span issues of shelving. There is a handy little web site that will help with the calculations:

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

Making the shelves shorter may require more timber for the uprights but it will keep your efforts looking lovely even after you deploy your hi-fi, books and so on.

Post some pictures when your project is complete.

Peter

 

[jmbfestool]

Hi Kodi

A common error made by many, even some professionals, is forgetting to take account of the weight/span issues of shelving. There is a handy little web site that will help with the calculations:

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

Making the shelves shorter may require more timber for the uprights but it will keep your efforts looking lovely even after you deploy your hi-fi, books and so on.

Post some pictures when your project is complete.

Peter

Wouldn't like to think a professional would make that mistake unless the client has specific specifications or a very unusual design which they haven't done before. But as standard shelves and tables etc goes a professional should not be making that mistake.  

Jmb