Belt sander vs Rotex

[simnick]

I've been building some horizontally laminated plywood furniture with finger joints made out of individual boards, like the below
View attachment 1
Getting perfect joints here was very difficult, and there was lots to clean up. I used my crappy Ryobi 18v belt sander to rapidly flatten the joints. However, it a) burned through many batteries b) dug in several times and messed stuff up. My Festool and Mirka ROS took forever.

I wanted to get a corded sander with a sanding frame, but Festool's is NAINA, and everything else seems to be discontinued. The Triton seems to be the only model sold in the US with sanding frame, except apparently I discovered they redesigned it in 2020 and now it no longer has holes for the sanding frame. The only thing I can find is the Makita 9404, with a sanding shoe you have to import from UK at $85.

I feel like the universe is trying to tell me that sanding frames and belt sanders period are just not a thing anymore.
Is the Rotex or Bosch GET75-6N good enough here? How likely is it to dig in like a belt sander without a sanding frame? How much slower will it be?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Overall, an RO is going to be slower than a belt sander....BUT, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It might even be better in the theory that it is not going to dig in or gouge like a belt sander can.
Go with the biggest one (RO150) get yourself some Granat and you will be happy with it.
Start course and knock the high spots down fast, this keeps things more flat, then work down to smooth.

 

[afish]

Have you thought about building a sled for a router and a surfacing bit to get it close?  I think thats the way I would go to get it 95% of the way there then finish up with a sander. 

 

[FestitaMakool]

Just found this very recently, noticed because I have a Bosch belt sander:
https://www.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/sanding-frames-for-belt-sanders-2868476-ocs-ac/
[attachimg=1]

I didn’t find it on the US Bosch site, which was really annoying with pop-up and rearranging Lay-out making a mess when searching - a search resulted in the GET models, when the search term was “belt sander”…

Bosch UK lists it, so did mu native Bosch page.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Have you thought about building a sled for a router and a surfacing bit to get it close?  I think thats the way I would go to get it 95% of the way there then finish up with a sander.

That is a great idea, if a guy is willing to get that deep into it, especially if there is a lot to take off to get flat.

 

[Cheese]

Have you thought about building a sled for a router and a surfacing bit to get it close?

Easier yet is an MFS and a router.

 

[afish]

Seems way easier than sanding it if its as bad as he says.  The sled doesnt need to be fancy.  A few rips of plywood "the same size and straight" just slightly taller than the top.  Pocket screwed down to a flat bench on either side and 2 L shaped pieces with some scrap 2x4 in between slightly wider than the router base to make the sled.  Simple enough if even doing 1 top.  If he gets into making a bunch then maybe look to upgrade.   

 

[afish]

My brain has seemed to stop working whats a MFS?

 

[simnick]

The plywood is a true and specific example, but I was also asking generically about rotex vs belt sander.

Router Jig would work for some of the surfaces, might be hard for the ends, which were the worst to deal with.

I'm guessing MFS is this:https://www.festool.com/accessory/492610---mfs-400

MFS might work for the ends.

 

[afish]

The router jig should get you 95% of the way there.  I would say plenty close enough to finish with the GET75.  We did just go through this Rotex/GET75 discussion.  I am in favor of saving the $359 bucks on the Rotex and putting that towards an ETS EC125/150/3 This way you get the power of a 5mm orbit and rotex/turbo mode for the heavy stuff and the finesse of the ETS EC 3 for finish sanding. For not much more than the Rotex alone.  Do a search here and youtube.  I dont want to say to much, it's probably a little to soon. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Seems way easier than sanding it if its as bad as he says.  The sled doesnt need to be fancy.  A few rips of plywood "the same size and straight" just slightly taller than the top.  Pocket screwed down to a flat bench on either side and 2 L shaped pieces with some scrap 2x4 in between slightly wider than the router base to make the sled.  Simple enough if even doing 1 top.  If he gets into making a bunch then maybe look to upgrade. 

Mine are screwed to another piece of ply in an L, so I can clamp them in place, but the result is the same. I just made them a few weeks ago to flatten and route a pocket into the back of an old barn beam to use as a mantle.
The main thing to remember with vertically oriented plywood is that you would need to clamp an extra layer to the edges or you will blow the outer layer of veneer right off.

 

[jt073]

I feel like the universe is trying to tell me that sanding frames and belt sanders period are just not a thing anymore.
Is the Rotex or Bosch GET75-6N good enough here? How likely is it to dig in like a belt sander without a sanding frame? How much slower will it be?

I was fortunate to pick up a Festool BS105 belt sander and frame years ago very cheap and it is one of the most satisfying tools I have - simply awesome power and finesse.  It does not help your immediate problem, but I would recommend keeping your eye open for a used one. I don’t think they are very common, probably because they are so expensive, but I am sure mine will outlast me.

It does look like the BS105 has been discontinued by Festool UK also, so maybe it has been completely disappeared  (not sure about the BS75 - maybe that remains).

I just googled BS105 and found this threadhttps://www.festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/festool-belt-sanders-16693/?all, where I pretty much said the same about the use of the machine!  There is some more discussion.

I also have a Rotex and other sanders, but nothing can touch the BS105 (with frame) for effectiveness and getting a fine finish on larger flat surfaces (I have used belt sanders without a frame and that is a completely different proposition and suitable for rough work only).  I often use a router sled, but usually then follow up with the belt sander.

Cheers

 

[jeffinsgf]

I don't think anyone has directly answered the original question. Yes, the Rotex is a very viable alternative to a belt sander. After owning a 125mm Rotex for a couple months I sold one belt sander and haven't touched the other in over a year. Get the entire range of pad densities and a wide selection of abrasive grits and you can flatten or smooth (or both) just about anything very quickly. I have the 125mm and 90mm Rotex sanders. I can see that someone doing larger work would like the 150, but I'm satisfied with the 125. The 90mm isn't for flattening large areas, but it is one of the most versatile little detail sanders I've ever seen.

 

[afish]

To answer the original question specifically is difficult as I/we dont know the condition or severity of the challenges the OP faced.  He makes it sound like it was in pretty rough condition but since we only see the finished piece its tough to judge what would be his best choice of sander.  However, I typically find that a belt sander IS NOT usually the correct answer.  This could just be me but trying to get a top nice and flat/smooth with a belt sander seems like something Im trying to avoid at all costs. 

Step 1 would be machining as much as possible this should get you a very "flat" and relatively smooth top and then finishing up with a 150mm sander.  That particular sander will vary depending on how well he does in step 1. If he does a good job a 150/3 should be enough, so so job then the 150/5, If he does a questionable job or has a bunch of spots he cant get with the router then the GET75 would most likely be very handy.  However I dont see a belt sander ever being part of the equation. 

 

[Michael Kellough]

[member=73094]afish[/member] sounds like you’ve never used a belt sander with sanding frame?

It’s hard to communicate how much difference the sanding frame makes. Approaching but not nearly as bad as using a router without a base. The point is, the addition of the sanding frame makes the belt sander into a different machine, one that can not do the damage you are thinking of.

It’s a shame Festool has not universally supported this tool. It really fits Festools philosophy of bringing the tool to the work since the the machine that the BS simulates is the giant Timesaver type sanding machine but like the Shaper Origin the workpiece doesn’t have to be small enough to fit into the machine.

 

[Birdhunter]

I think I still have a belt sander somewhere, but have not seen it for over 20 years. I can't imagine trusting one on plywood.

I have a bunch of Festool sanders including the RO125. It's a fantastic sander. However, with a coarse grit it can be a "wild thang". Its can go through the outer ply of Baltic birch in a heart beat.

I tend to use a non-RO sander on plywood to avoid damaging the decorative layer.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I think I still have a belt sander somewhere, but have not seen it for over 20 years. I can't imagine trusting one on plywood.

I have a bunch of Festool sanders including the RO125. It's a fantastic sander. However, with a coarse grit it can be a "wild thang". Its can go through the outer ply of Baltic birch in a heart beat.

I tend to use a non-RO sander on plywood to avoid damaging the decorative layer.

He is gluing strips face to face, like end-grain, so the only "face veneer" you would see is on the edges.

 

[afish]

No I have not used a sanding frame and never plan too... Im more of a plane it kind of guy.  Nothing against those who like a belt sander with or without a frame but I would rather have the control and shavings instead of using an old dust generator.  I still have a old 4x24 PC belt sander the good ol' kind when it was still made in America up in the attic. Similar to birdhunter untouched for 20 years.

 

[Cheese]

My brain has seemed to stop working whats a MFS?

Here's the MFS set up on some HVAC vents when I needed to remove some material from the backside. A really quick setup, probably 10 minutes or less including setting up the router.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

 

[afish]

OK, but isnt that MFS a little limited on size?