Best 2 drill combo - CXS and T18 or Protool PDC 18-4 (suggestions welcome)

[matalin]

Hi All, I've been devouring all the forum topics deciding what drills to start owning first..

Having trouble choosing the perfect 2 drill set. Will definitely be getting the cxs (advise otherwise if you think it should be in the best 2 drill set), but going back and forth between the PDC 18-4 protool and the T18 festool as the big second. I work doing building and renovation jobs, and hope to start building my own house this year. I'm currently leaning towards the protool because of it's ruggedness and impact option.

Points to consider:

I really like the festool range, and likely will purchase further items from that range in the future rather than protool.
without any impact function the T18 may be lacking in some building tasks (and I can't afford a third drill)
Protool is rugged as all beans, great for on-site work I do a lot of.
going protool means you lose out on the offset drill bit chuck, which is a useful one!
I like the idea of exchangeability of batteries but there are more 15v options in the festool range than 18v
Am I better off going with a C15/T15 and Ti15 combo?

big investment, so I want to make the right choice, and as festool owners, you're the best ones to ask advice from!

Thanks for any and all thoughts and suggestions in advance..

Matalin

Thoughts?

 

[Kev]

Probably not what you want to hear .... anyway, here goes.

MY first Festool drill experience was playing with the CXS ... Brilliant !! So I took it home.

A little while later I was playing with the T's and C's and took the T18 home.

I thought that was it for me. Not so.

I had a sniff of news about the Ti15 and went back to chat with my dealer. I wasn't happy that my T18 was a 2.6Ah with no light too, so he did me a really good deal swapping to a C15, a Ti15 set and a Syslite.

About now you'd think I'd be satisfied with cordless drills (also having a couple of big Hitachi's and several mains drills) ... Nope  [eek]

Next time I was in the shop I was looking at the PDC 18-4 ... what a nice unit, but my dealer advised me that a revised model was coming, so I said "get me one".

The PDC is a beast and I'm much happier with it than I would have been the T18 - that said, I've got the C15 and ultimately the CSX to fall back on for technical drilling and screwing.

I'd probably suggest limping along with the CSX and the PDC 18-4 and see if you really need to fill in the gaps later. The CSX goes a lot further than you may initially think.

 

[neeleman]

Hi Matalin,

I nearly use all the machines mentioned except the CXS.
The Protool is indeed one of the best machines out there. The revised PDC 18 only has an additional led-light and some rubber strips for protection.
I see it more as a drilling machine. But of course it can do screwing as well but therefore I find it quite heavy.
And it's actually an axial impact for drilling in masonry or concrete with small diameters (10 mm). So not an impact for screwing!

The best part is the drilling speed of 3,800 rpm. I don't know of any machine with that speed.
For drilling holes it's fantastic (THE BEST)!

 

[matalin]

Yeah, I knew it was axial impact, useful in a go-to building/renovation drill - I figured it's grunt would be enough for 95% of all screwing/drilling needs..

I've already suffered from GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) with photography.. trying desperately to avoid it with work (mostly unsucessfully). I guess there's a niggling thought about having a T15/C15 and being able to buy a bare unit ti15 to complement it. Question: would a 15 be enough.. I'm thinking maybe/maybe not.. :-S

 

[Kev]

Yeah, I knew it was axial impact, useful in a go-to building/renovation drill - I figured it's grunt would be enough for 95% of all screwing/drilling needs..

I've already suffered from GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) with photography.. trying desperately to avoid it with work (mostly unsucessfully). I guess there's a niggling thought about having a T15/C15 and being able to buy a bare unit ti15 to complement it. Question: would a 15 be enough.. I'm thinking maybe/maybe not.. :-S

A T15 could be enough ... if you know what it's enough for. Unfortunately there's always a task just beyond what you have.

I'll confess, I got the PDC 18-4 because I was just blown away by it - I haven't tackled anything with it that a 15 couldn't do yet, be it not as easily.

 

[matalin]

Hey Kev, care to elaborate on "blown away"? Trying to get the real world opinons/use like that - I've read all the specs, watched all the youtube reviews, visited all the marketing sites, the only thing I haven't done is get hands-on. Everything online points to the PDC 18-4 (2012) as being quite simply a bad-ass workhorse capable of most things. the price difference between a T/C15 and it isn't outrageous, but there's definitely a weight difference. I like to get a tonne of use from something like this, and I'd hate to get the CXS and 18-4 and never use the 18 except in a pinch because it's too heavy.. where a C/T15 might get use all day long with it's balance of power/weight, and only occasionally come up short..

I guess I just don't want buyers remorse! haha..

 

[Brice Burrell]

...... where a C/T15 might get use all day long with it's balance of power/weight, and only occasionally come up short........

First welcome to the FOG! 

We don't have Protool here in the States so I can't comment on the PDC 18-4.  I do have a couple of the Festool T15 drills.  I also do renovation jobs and there is very little the T15 won't do.  Were the T15 falls short is in the area of masonry drilling and driving.  That's not a problem for me since I prefer a mains rotary hammer and cordless impact driver for those tasks.

As far as I know the Protool batteries and charger will work with Festool tools and vice versa.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

[Kev]

Hey Kev, care to elaborate on "blown away"? Trying to get the real world opinons/use like that - I've read all the specs, watched all the youtube reviews, visited all the marketing sites, the only thing I haven't done is get hands-on. Everything online points to the PDC 18-4 (2012) as being quite simply a bad- workhorse capable of most things. the price difference between a T/C15 and it isn't outrageous, but there's definitely a weight difference. I like to get a tonne of use from something like this, and I'd hate to get the CXS and 18-4 and never use the 18 except in a pinch because it's too heavy.. where a C/T15 might get use all day long with it's balance of power/weight, and only occasionally come up short..

I guess I just don't want buyers remorse! haha..

I only get buyers remorse years later when I'm selling something I pretty much never used  [embarassed]

The PDC 18-4 isn't super heavy. All of the Centrotech stuff that's specifically Protool ... chucks, etc also all seem to be a little more heavy duty.

Forgetting the extra dressing and impact resistance improvements over the Festool stuff, it's the four speed gearbox that makes this unit stand out. Put it in the lowest gear and you'll practically mix concrete and the other end of the spectrum is perfect for the smallest of twist bits in steel. I don't think I've put a two inch circle saw through anything as fast as I have with the PDC 18-4.

It is super versatile and it's not a lot heavier than the T18 (and here in Oz they're pretty much the same price!)

You would be saving maybe 300g (a bit more than half a pound) going down to a T15.

Personally I wouldn't hesitate regarding a PDC 18-4 if building a house is in your future. I have a bit of building down the track and that was my real personal justification.

 

[matalin]

Thanks kev! Helpful-as!

Nice blog Brice, liked the CXS review

 

[Kev]

As far as I know the Protool batteries and charger will work with Festool tools and vice versa.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.   

Not having a T18 any more, I can't check 18 to 18, but I believe they're all happy together. It'd be really strange if they weren't to be honest.

The outer shape of the Protool and Festool batteries do differ slightly. Next time I get a chance I'll try a 15 battery in the PDC 18-4 ... and check the specs on the chargers.

 

[neeleman]

Using batteries from Festool and Protool in each of the machines is no problem.
But only use lower Voltage batteries to higher Voltage machines.
So 14,4V batteries will only run in 18V machines and NOT vice versa.
The only difference is that the lower Voltage batteries reduces the speed of the machine a little bit.

 

[Brice Burrell]

....Nice blog Brice, liked the CXS review

[thumbs up]

Using batteries from Festool and Protool in each of the machines is no problem.
But only use lower Voltage batteries to higher Voltage machines.
So 14,4V batteries will only run in 18V machines and NOT vice versa.
The only difference is that the lower Voltage batteries reduces the speed of the machine a little bit.

Yes that's true.  Which brings up a point on voltage choice for continuity between other cordless tools in the Festool/Protool range.

 

[matalin]

Yes that's true.  Which brings up a point on voltage choice for continuity between other cordless tools in the Festool/Protool range.

I know, just one of the many things I'm trying to factor into this purchase. Should probably just buy something and stop over thinking.. It would be awesome if the 18v worked on the lower volt range, just delivered at the connected tools capacity. I bet they already have that technology, and are just saving it for some future upgrade...

this discussion is helpful.. so far I'm 100% on the CXS, the installers kit, and about 80% PDC 18-4, 10% T18, 10% T15

Whoever thought buying powertools was simple?? ;-)

 

[matalin]

Update: bought the cxs set for a good price, been plasterboarding (drywall) a gut and rebuild set of flats, and it's beaten everything thrown at it: 15mm fireboard, 15mm soundboard, concrete aquaboard, all of which between single and dual layers - ie driving 2.5 inch drywall screws through two boards and into framing timber. Batteries kick ass, last long, and holding drill above your head for long periods is no problem..

2nd drill has been chosen! religiously scouring ebay europe-wide got me a C15 + 3 li set (used, great condition) for 120euro - insanely good deal, and just lucky.. listing was mis-labelled and virtually no description - I only found it by searching for "festool" and looking at every listing..

This means my 2 drill combo will become a 3 drill one - I plan to get a bare unit Ti 15 impact to cover all angles...

The biggest baddest drill is still the 18-4, but I simply couldn't justify the price to myself, as there are other festool items I want as well..