Best Sandpaper for General Purpose Woodworking?

williaty

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Dec 30, 2011
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OK, the sandpaper issue with Festool is clearly out of control. I've read the Festool material on what does what. I've read a lot of threads, here an other places, describing what people are using.  Much of that devolved into comparative argeuments to the tune of "Oh! But if you use this other Festool abrasive product, it'll make thousands of julienne fries after it sands your wood!"

I'm still confused.

I'm buying an ETS 150/5. I need a sandpaper for general-purpose woodworking to take wood from smoothing out joints/rounding over edges all the way up to ready to apply the finish. I will not be dealing with sanding off paint, sanding off finish, metal, plastic, or anything else odd. Just solid wood, MDF, and hardwood ply. I don't have enough money to buy one of everything, so it's pretty important to me to be able to get the smallest amount of stuff thati'll do the work I'm most interested in doing. To me, the most cost-effective (meaning most boards sanded for least amount of money) product is more important than the fastest or most versatile product.

What should I be looking at and where should I be buying it?

Thanks, guys.
 
Do you want to go finer than 180? If not, use Rubin.

If you want to go finer, use Brilliant2 on bare wood.

If you want one abrasive for virtually everything, use Granat.

Tom
 
Do all three of those last through about the same amount of work, including resistance to tearing on corners? Like I said, dollar per square foot sanded is a priority for me.
 
I prefer the granat paper for mostly everything.  I find it lasts the longest but will tear easy on corners so you have to be careful.  But overall I find it the most usefull.

Dave
 
Rubin is the best paper for sanding wood. It's grain cuts wood the best and leaves the best surface. But it also dulls very fast and from that point of view it is not very cost effective compared to the other two papers Tom mentions.

Brilliant and Granat are very similar. To be honest, I don't see any difference between them when working with those papers on wood or paint. These two papers are the best for all-round work. They can both tackle almost any job and are very good on wood. A lot of people here seem to have the opinion that Granat is better than Brilliant, but in my experience there's no noticeable difference, except when sanding plaster/drywall where Granat lasts significantly longer. Granat is the newer paper of Festool and a lot of members somehow are of the opinion that newer is better. In my opinion, that's not necessarily so. I've found both Brilliant and Granat to be excellent papers.

Since you're so concerned about cost, I'd say Brilliant is more cost effective because Granat is about 20-25% more expensive.

But I think you're getting a bit too worked up about the cost of sandpaper. There's no reason not to try out different types of paper yourself to see which one suits you best. For instance, Tom who replied to you above is a dealer who sells smaller assorted packets of paper. I'm sure other dealers also have such offers. So there's no need to start buying 100 packs of everything right away. I believe in the USA it is not possible to buy 10 packs (still true?) like we can here in Europe, but I do know many US dealers are prepared to break up the large packs and sell you smaller quantities. Never hurts to ask.

I wouldn't call Festool's sandpaper assortment out of control. I think it is great they offer such a good line of different papers optimised for all sorts of different applications. But I do agree with you that it takes quite some effort to understand it all. But fear not, 'cause here at the FOG we're always prepared to answer any questions you have.  [smile]
       
In short, Brilliant is the cheapest paper that gets very good results at whatever you throw at it.
 
I agree that Brilliant and Granat are probably the two best all around papers.  I personally like Granat and find that it lasts longer than anything else out there.  Brilliant is also very good.  Finish quality is excellent across all of them.  I like Rubin on bare wood, but it does not last all that long and so it is not as cost effective.  Granat costs a little more per package, but I think it lasts long enough to make it the most cost effective overall.  Plus, you can sand glue squeeze out and finishes without clogging.  I know you mentioned sanding only wood, but you might find a need to sand a finish at some point.

Scot
 
Check this thread post #8  [wink] ETS150/5 Abrasives

No Granat (didn't exist) , but it could be subbed in for a couple if desired.  I have just started trying it to see what / where in the line up I might want it.  I set those grits up three years ago and still like the line up.

Seth
 
The best paper out there not paper at all, it's Mirka Abranet.  Unfortunately it is pricy and not stocked at my local suppliers.  After that I think it is a toss up between Granat and Brilliant II. Generally Brilliant II is cheaper and more available.  I use Granat 120, and Brilliant 150 and 180.
 
I have used Rubin for coarse sanding and Brilliant for finer sanding on my RO150.  These papers work very well.  I have the Granat for my RO90 and it works very well and seems to last quite a bit longer.
 
From what you've said your needs are, I'd say Rubin in various grits from course through medium P180.  If you need a higher finer grit, Brilliant2 for the lower cost than Granat.  Get Tom Bellemare to set you up with a mixed grit package to get a personal feel for what you like.  Then buy in greater quantities the ones you prefer.
 
I am a hobbyist furniture maker, and I own an RO90, an RO125, an RTS400 and an ETS150/3.  After trying several different Festool papers before buying a large supply, including Rubin, Brilliant and Granat, I settled on the Granat. 
It has a wide range of grits, and while it is a little more expensive than others, it does not load up and it lasts, for me, a lot longer.  It also is usable for other purposes.  It seems to be very versatile.  I initially got the sanding disks for the sanders, and was so pleased with it I recently got an assortment of the hand sanding pads in the Granat which I like just as well.
I have been very happy with the results I have gotten with it, I am using only one type so I know what to expect from each grit, and it simplifies the least fun part of woodworking for me.
 
Remember, the OP asked for sandpaper that would not tear easily and work with bare wood only.  Cost was important. --- RUBIN and if he needs to sand any finer than P180, Brilliant 2 is the next option.
 
Ken Nagrod said:
Remember, the OP asked for sandpaper that would not tear easily and work with bare wood only.  Cost was important. --- RUBIN and if he needs to sand any finer than P180, Brilliant 2 is the next option.

As cost was important, Rubin is the first to drop off the list. It dulls twice as fast as any other paper. I myself prefer your advice, because that's the way to get the best result, and the way I do it, but from a cost perspective Rubin is not the best choice.
 
I use Rubin for bare wood, and it seems to fade quickly. I'll have to pick up some Granat - have not used it yet.

I have used Cristal for bare wood, is this not appropriate? I find Cristal is more agressive than Rubin, and lasts much, much longer.
 
Never really got along with Rubin - but then I rarely sand bare wood. Brilliant2 was my favourite all-rounder, but I'm gradually replacing all my stock with Granat; as an all-round, general-purpose abrasive it's outstanding. Don't take my word for it though - buy a few small packs and try it for yourself!

HTH Pete
 
Rubin gives the best finish on bare wood because it is close coated (the grit particles are spaced close together).  It is very noticeable, not just some B.S. to get you to buy more sandpaper.  Much smoother surface with smaller scratches, therefore, it cuts slower.  For  smoothing of show surfaces in preparation for finishing, you are wasting your time to use any thing else. 
 
Interesting observation: My new RO 90 just arrived. The sample abrasives were all Granat, with the exception of a 40 grit Saphir and two Vlies pads. It seems that Festool may also be thinking of Granat as the best paper for most situations.

For the record, I have Saphir for my RAS 115, and Granat for everything else. I haven't bothered with the other abrasives after reading various comments on the FOG.
 
KentonIwao said:
Rubin gives the best finish on bare wood because it is close coated (the grit particles are spaced close together).  It is very noticeable, not just some B.S. to get you to buy more sandpaper.  Much smoother surface with smaller scratches, therefore, it cuts slower.   For  smoothing of show surfaces in preparation for finishing, you are wasting your time to use any thing else. 

Until early 2006 I had used a wide variety of sand papers. Sometimes I would go a couple of years not needing to buy more abrasives. Then I drank the green Kool-Aide. One Friday in Mid-January 2006 I bought a TS55, 3 rails, the accessory kit, many clamps and a CT22. That Saturday I bought a cleaning set with a 36mm AS hose and the plate for the side of the TS55. The next Wednesday I bought an OF1010, the LR-32 kit and a 1080mm Holy Rail. By now I was hooked.

None of the various brands of sanders I then owned felt right to me any longer. That Saturday I returned to my dealer, where I am sure my name was written on a parking spot, for my first Festool round sander. I think it was a RO 150, but it might have been a previous model. Where the Festool paper comes in is that despite owning boxes of abrasives, I owned round 150mm or any with holes.

Jesse Barragán who owns Eagle Tools in Los Angeles has been my woodworking go-to expert for a very long time. The first time that January when I visited his then new location and saw the Festool display room, Jesse introduced me to Raúl Dena as his resident Festool specialist. So, even before I decided on the sander I asked them for abrasive recommendations. I told them that I would not be removing finish since I only would use machined lumber and plywood. I think Brilliant II was available then, and they told me about its virtues in the finer grits. I mentioned that since I would not be applying the finish to my projects, I probably would normally stop at 120 grit, and possibly go to 150 or 180 grit.

They encouraged me to try some of the coarser Brilliant II, but actually recommended Rubin. To me that was a thrilling experience. Even with hardly any experience with that powerful sander, with a hard pad and Rubin the system felt so natural to me. I bought minimum quantity packs of Rubin from maximum coarse up to 180 grit. I also bought some Brilliant II up to 240 grit. Over the ensuing years I added a lot of Festool sanders and as my work volume increased I bought bigger packs of Rubin.

About 2009, I think, I had the chance to try some Granat while in Europe. I also think Festool was showing it at AWFS in Las Vegas. I admit to being skeptical and cautious. Various Festool experts admitted their Granat started out intended for auto paint finishing. Back then there were many articles and reviews worried that Granat might be a problem with staining wood because of release of wax traditionally used with ceramic abrasives.

Before Granat was released in North America Festool and many other organizations performed numerous tests sanding raw wood with Granat and applying all sorts of stains. None of those tests of production Granat in the coarser grits appropriate for raw wood demonstrated any problems with later finishing. Early in 2011, during a class in Henderson, NV taught by both Steve Bace and Brian Sedgeley, we used Granat on solid surface and between classes discussed the use of Granat on raw wood. Unfortunately at that time the Nevada Training Center did not have any Granat coarser than 240 grit.

I reached out to a good buddy in the UK who sent me a few discs each of 90mm Granat in the coarser grits. Immediately I used those on the same types of plywood and hardwood I use in my cabinet business. I asked several of the finishing contractors who routinely finish my cabinets for their clients to make sure the Granat was causing no problem. Every one of those finish contractors were delighted with the results. In fact, most preferred the way 120 grit Granat kept the grain of some hardwood receptive to stain even better than did Rubin, which all of us trusted. Of course after they apply stain, as part of their finishing process they do additional sanding, but all that is outside of my business.

So I placed an order for Granat in 150mm, 125mm and 90mm 100 and 120 grit. We used that for months in 2011. Yes, the price of Granat is higher than Rubin. However, the increased life of Granat cancels the higher cost. In addition, when cabinet making is your business, the labor and downtime cost of changing papers has to be considered. Month after month all six of the cabinet makers working for me became convinced that for us Granat would be a competitive advantage. For us the results were even better than Rubin, and everyone had loved the Rubin results. It was far less frustrating to have paper last significantly longer.

When all sizes and shapes of Granat up to 200 grit became available I stopped ordering Rubin and Brilliant II. Then came the Festool Round Sander and Abrasives Sale of 2011. I ordered so much Granat that I am sure the savings alone paid for my class last December and I still have money left from those savings for another class in Henderson. Steve, Brian and Shane know the subject I want to learn.

So my suggestion is that if you do not cost-out your time to 1/100s of a minute, and if you love Rubin, then by all means use it. It lasts forever stored decently. I am still using some Rubin I purchased in 2006. On the other hand, if you want to try Granat, I am sure you will find the longer life will mean in the long run Granat did not cost you extra.

 
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