Better use of Incra on table saw?

[shed9]

Stuck this up on UKW yesterday but know there are a few Incra users here as well so thought I would repost in the hope this can help others in a similar position. This is basically a cut and paste so apologies for those that frequent UKW and are reading for a second time.

I finally got my Incra working on my K3 table saw over the Easter break in a way that makes sense so I thought I would share.

Excuse the state of my workshop, the floor has been a nightmare from day one, I've fitted a subfloor already but it had to come up because of the recent flooding.

Some of you may remember I had embarked on a major refit of my saw some time ago using alloy extrusion that basically outfitted a huge assembly table to the right which supported a standard Incra TS setup. The bench had provision for a router lift to take advantage of the Incra fence to use for routing as well. I did actually finish the bench with an MFT style top and ran the whole setup for some time (apologies I should have updated the thread and if I find the pics of it finished I will post them up for anyone interested).

Despite the setup working well it was cumbersome and took far too much room, especially when the Incra fence was extended out beyond the bench itself. To add to this, I found the bench top too tempting as a surface to place any crap I need to find a place for and the benefit of the entire setup did not outweigh the space it took up. I knew the Incra system is space hungry but my workshop is not that big and I wanted my space back more than the convenience.

Long story short, I pulled it all apart, reassigned the alloy extrusion to a purpose built CNC router, put the original K3 fence back on and shelved the Incra whilst deciding what to do with it. I already have another router table with an Incra system so I still had what I need. Anyhow I had a brainwave over the last week and came up withwhat I think is a more sensible use of an Incra system on a table saw.

I bought some 10mm alloy angle from Ebay and machined it up to this;



I then cut a length of 45x90 extrusion (from the original bench) and fitted it all together on my K3;



This allows the Incra wonder fence to bolt on the back and I intend to fit a right hand extension table for my original router lift (a UJK model), this is the setup complete with Incra saw fence, wonder fence and some Jessem TS guides;



I stuck some 3mm UHMW plastic under the fences and the whole thing slides quite nicely. I've done a few test cuts and it works incredibly well. I may redo the adapter that fixes the Incra fence to my adapter just to strengthen the fence but all it works as it should. I wll get the alloy anodised over the next week and refit the fasteners with socket caps for convenience.

To me this makes more sense as I get the Incra precision without the dead grey space issue everyone has with Incra. I know it seems like it sticks out front a fair bit but this really isn't an issue and does not impede operation or reach in any way. The plate angled below the positioner is to fit an extra stop/start setup so the switch is more accessible and follows the fence.

Any other Incra users see the sense in this?

 

[Aclaw]

This is an amazing setup!  This has been my major inhibition in attempting an incra setup.  I also have to maximize space and all available work surfaces.  Great execution

 

[suds]

i have somewhat the same dilema in that I am sharing a 3 car garage with my shop and literally everything is crammed together.  I have a Sawstop with the TS LS setup and the LS system on my yet to be finished router table housed between two MFT 1080 tables.  What has worked for me is having just about all my machines mobile.  Just by swinging the rear of my Sawstop I can utilize the Incra fence and when I get done I can get the Sawstop and Incra nestled between other machines until the next session.  When the weather cooperates and all the cars are out I get full use of the area and it's very quick getting the machines in and out. 
Your application really makes sense and I wouldn't be surprised to see Incra offer something to accomplish this for other folks.

 

[shed9]

Thanks both, I agree that Incra is probably missing a trick in utilising their positioner in this format. That said, they are known for their quality and how well thought out the tools are so I can't imagine that they haven't looked at this already.

I appreciate I'm not the first person to implement a lead screw based fence rail but I'm surprised how few examples their are around especially using an Incra system - the grey space issue seems to be  stumbling block for a lot of people.

 

[ryanjg117]

I love Incra as well, but agree the positioner running down the midpoint of the extension table does take up a lot tabletop.

The only issue I could thing of here would be deflection over the entire length of the fence extrusion. Incra's TS-LS setup not only is supported in the middle, where the most pressure is probably going to be exerted against the fence as that's where the blade is, but a little-known fact is they also advise you "secure down" the fence at each end (at least, at the far end). In the pictures you show, I don't see a good way of doing that.

Do you find the entire extrusion to be solid, down its entire length?

 

[dnorris1369]

For those of you that have Incra setup on their saw do you like it? That is besides the space it takes. I've been thinking of adding one to my saw stop

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[ear3]

Love my 32" Incra fence.  I have a pretty pedestrian table saw -- the Ridgid R4512 -- but the Incra, coupled with the Jessem stock guides which I also have like the OP (and which I highly recommend), turns it into a precision machine.

I've had the fence for two years, and have only had to readjust it once for square after maybe a year of use.  I like the fact that I no longer have to plan all my cuts in advance -- making sure that I run everything through while the fence is locked down in a carefully measured position, but rather, can go back and forth between measurements knowing that the lead screw ensures absolute repeatability.  And you really can dial in a width to the thousandth of an inch with the micro-adjuster.

Since my saw is on casters, I roll it out when using it so that I have clearance for the fence at the wider settings.  But if your saw is locked in place, you do have to have a fair amount of extra room on the right side of the saw. 

For those of you that have Incra setup on their saw do you like it? That is besides the space it takes. I've been thinking of adding one to my saw stop

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[Hurricane Whisperer]

For those of you that have Incra setup on their saw do you like it? That is besides the space it takes. I've been thinking of adding one to my saw stop

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I have an incra that I fitted to an old 1970's Rockwell table saw.  I have a left and right side woodpecker's router table mounted on the saw and the incra can serve all three.

If you set it up properly, it will give you two things beyond what other fences will give you

1.  Repeatabllity to a few thousandth's with no test cuts required.
2.  Precision to a few thousandth's with no test cuts required.

Say you are making drawer sides of different side widths.  Maybe a 3 1/2" and a 5".  Then say you screw one up in the router.  You can cut some more on the table saw and they will be dead nuts the same size as the other one's you cut instead of a 1/64" over or under with no test cut required.

If you are routing a groove and need it a little wider, you can dial it in with the micro adjust.  If you need to cut a piece on the table saw that to fit something, you can dial in the size with the micro adjust.

Do not forget to set the micro adjust back to zero when you are done or your next cuts will be off.

Compared to a regular t-style fence, it is more fiddly and slower.  The lock and cursor portion are inconveniently located instead of right at the fence.

So a regular t-style fence is faster and more convenient for work to the ability of you to see the cursor.  The incra is more precise and repeatable but loses some convenience to achieve it.  Where it really shines is when you use it in combination of a router table and table saw.  It is economic in terms of space and purchase price in this application. 

ETA:  The incra is very useful for routing operations in ways a regular fence couldn't touch.

 

[ear3]

Left AND Right!  Is it sometimes just too much trouble to walk to the other side of the saw?  [wink]

I have an incra that I fitted to an old 1970's Rockwell table saw.  I have a left and right side woodpecker's router table mounted on the saw and the incra can serve all three.

 

[Hurricane Whisperer]

Left side router table get's the most use.  It is used to do the edges of boards.

Right side allows the use of a table saw sled to route on the ends of long boards and still be able to use the incra wonder fence features.

 

[The cynical optimist]

hey shed,  would really like to know if this set up has any deflection in it? I want to purchase the incra system but can't afford the wasted table space behind the fence, your set up looks like a good option , I'm just worried about the fence deflecting, also is it possible to explain how your set up running,  is it primarely on the alloy rail next to incra positioner, or a combination of rail and positioner taking the weight and how is it locked into the rail?

 

[shed9]

Sorry for the late updates to this thread. Not being on FOG for a while.

In response to The cynical optimist, after further testing there is deflection in the fence however this seems to be more in the Incra fence itself rather that the slide assembly.

I get about >1.5mm deflection on the long fence by applying moderate force at one extreme end whereas I only get about 0.2mm on the carriage. It should be said though that the small amount of deflection on the carriage is obviously amplified at the end of the fence combining with the fence deflection further. I was initially looking to use the shorter fence (with less deflection) but as I am fitting a cast iron router table to the right I really need the long fence to get precise result on the router itself.

I have since fitted a cast iron table with router lift and added a CNC slide way under the main alloy beam to aid sliding the additional weight and to assist in keeping it completely square (which it does).

Anyhow, I have also added a further alloy beam on the opposite side of the table/s with an additional CNC slide way and intend to fit the other side of the fence to this. This will (hopefully) remove deflection and allow the wonder fence element to remain precise in operation. The CNC slide way makes a huge difference and the whole carriage moves effortlessly. I had some spare from a CNC build so other than my time it added no cost to me at this stage.

I will post some pics up later today when I get time.

 

[rizzoa13]

If your fence extends all the way to the back of the saw you could mount one of the incra rails it comes with and flip the rail around. This way you could have the tightening knob on the back side and could secure the back side of the rail so there could be no deflection. I could see it being a little annoying to move the whole thing with the back side having to move inside the rail though.

 

[Eden1415]

I was wondering about the deflection.  Can you show some more pictures on how you solved this?

Thanks;

 

[mavrick1903]

I love mine on my saw stop.

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