Bigger Domino Machine
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Notorious T.O.D.
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I think they have it already and at a fair price too....2200 Router...
You will have to make your own Dominos though....
Best,
Todd
You will have to make your own Dominos though....
Best,
Todd
woodguy7 said:A mortiser would make the perfect mortiserWhy not use one of them ?
You could get ~two for the price of one 2200 router & square corners to boot... [wink]
Having said that, I'll no doubt buy a 2200 when I have a project that it can help me with... as far as that goes also the bigger Domino when it's available. As an amateur I really enjoy working "unplugged" in the shop but I also really love Festools.
Notorious T.O.D.
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Eiji,
I have made a number of large interior and exterior doors over the past 25 years and I found the most efficient joinery for me was large loose tenons cut with a heavy heavy duty router and a 5-6 inch long 1/2 up spiral bit. I would go 3 inches into the stile and also 3 inches into the end of the rail and make the tenon about 2-3 inches wide x 6 inches long, and 2 tenons for the wider center and bottom rails. I have never had one of these joints fail.
A industrial mortiser is fine for many mortise jobs but does not work in end grain of the rails if you want to use loose tenon jointery approach. I have tried a slot mortiser also but found the big router to be faster and easier and in the end smarter I guess. Easier to mover the tool over the wood than the large pieces of wood over the slot mortiser.
Best,
Todd
I have made a number of large interior and exterior doors over the past 25 years and I found the most efficient joinery for me was large loose tenons cut with a heavy heavy duty router and a 5-6 inch long 1/2 up spiral bit. I would go 3 inches into the stile and also 3 inches into the end of the rail and make the tenon about 2-3 inches wide x 6 inches long, and 2 tenons for the wider center and bottom rails. I have never had one of these joints fail.
A industrial mortiser is fine for many mortise jobs but does not work in end grain of the rails if you want to use loose tenon jointery approach. I have tried a slot mortiser also but found the big router to be faster and easier and in the end smarter I guess. Easier to mover the tool over the wood than the large pieces of wood over the slot mortiser.
Best,
Todd
Notorious T.O.D.
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Woodguy,
When you say traditional do you mean with tenons going entirely though the stiles? That is what I think of then I hear you use that term. My inlaws have a house built in 1869 and it has interior doors built that way, but the original exterior doors are long gone.
I am not sure there is much difference in the ability it takes to do one versus the other, just a different process, approach and differnet tools needed perhaps. But the desired result is still a flat, true door that will stay square, be easy to hang and survive the test of time.
Best,
Todd
When you say traditional do you mean with tenons going entirely though the stiles? That is what I think of then I hear you use that term. My inlaws have a house built in 1869 and it has interior doors built that way, but the original exterior doors are long gone.
I am not sure there is much difference in the ability it takes to do one versus the other, just a different process, approach and differnet tools needed perhaps. But the desired result is still a flat, true door that will stay square, be easy to hang and survive the test of time.
Best,
Todd
Yes Todd, that is exactly what i mean.
I disagree on the skill level I'm afraid. I have a Domino & think it is great but there is much more skill it cutting a mortise & then cutting a tennon to fit perfectly. Two saw cuts in the tennon, chisel a small slope in the outside if the mortise & wedge when assembled to give you the effect of a dovetail. That joint will never come apart. You could be 1 to 2 hrs to get a joint like that right.
With a Domino, set on the wood & plunge [huh] It don't take an awful lot of skill & i think that is testament to Festool for producing such a great tool. Joint done in 2 mins.
Like i have said in a previous thread, no professional workshop in the UK would ever consider using Dominoes for a full sized door. I have been doing this for a living for 25 years so i do have an idea what i am talking about. The Domino does have its uses, an awful lot of them but it does also have its limits.
Cheers, Woodguy.
I disagree on the skill level I'm afraid. I have a Domino & think it is great but there is much more skill it cutting a mortise & then cutting a tennon to fit perfectly. Two saw cuts in the tennon, chisel a small slope in the outside if the mortise & wedge when assembled to give you the effect of a dovetail. That joint will never come apart. You could be 1 to 2 hrs to get a joint like that right.
With a Domino, set on the wood & plunge [huh] It don't take an awful lot of skill & i think that is testament to Festool for producing such a great tool. Joint done in 2 mins.
Like i have said in a previous thread, no professional workshop in the UK would ever consider using Dominoes for a full sized door. I have been doing this for a living for 25 years so i do have an idea what i am talking about. The Domino does have its uses, an awful lot of them but it does also have its limits.
Cheers, Woodguy.
Guy Ashley
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With you all the way Woodguy!!!
Full size doors are "joinery" which is what I guess you and I did our City & Guilds apprenticeship all those years ago (Thats showing my age!!), whereas kitchen cabinet doors are cabinet making!
A different discipline and so the construction can be simplified without compromise.
Engineered full size doors make me gag!! When clients say "HOW MUCH!!!" I can get one at B & Q for a lot less than that I just smile sweetly and walk away whilst thinking "Philistine!
Thats my rant over! [big grin]
Full size doors are "joinery" which is what I guess you and I did our City & Guilds apprenticeship all those years ago (Thats showing my age!!), whereas kitchen cabinet doors are cabinet making!
A different discipline and so the construction can be simplified without compromise.
Engineered full size doors make me gag!! When clients say "HOW MUCH!!!" I can get one at B & Q for a lot less than that I just smile sweetly and walk away whilst thinking "Philistine!
Thats my rant over! [big grin]
Notorious T.O.D.
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Gee guys I never said anything about using a Domino for constructing full size doors and I would not do that anyway. However the large loose motrise and tenon when glued up is extremely strong although it does lack the dovetail feature of the wedged through mortise. But the through mortise is also not always visually desired in all doors, I suppose one could execute a blind wedged mortise but that is even more work and risk. At the other end of the spectrum I have seen doors that are merely coped and sticked on the shaper and then 6 inch lag bolts are run in from the edges of the stiles to the endgrain of the rails and the counterbores plugged with 1 inch dowels. Functional I guess but hardly well made and very ugly when looking at a door edge. Nothing I would ever want for sure.
As to the skill level I think a couple jigs and the router is still comparible to a mortiser, an angled table and a table saw. The only way I could see a single joint taking 2 hours is if the work was all being done with hand tools IMHO.
Thats the beauty of woodworking though...so many ways to get to an end.
Best,
Todd
As to the skill level I think a couple jigs and the router is still comparible to a mortiser, an angled table and a table saw. The only way I could see a single joint taking 2 hours is if the work was all being done with hand tools IMHO.
Thats the beauty of woodworking though...so many ways to get to an end.
Best,
Todd
When it comes to making large doors using Mortice and Tenon joinery Eiji has demonstrated the requisite level of skill already. As far as I can tell he hasn't yet indicated his intended use of a larger Domino, although doors would seem to be a logical proposition. As far as using the present Domino for large exterior doors, one could argue that it is not the right tool but I am not so sure that would be true for a bigger machine. When the Domino came out I remember some folks lamenting the inevitable erosion of skills that was surely to follow after everyone migrated to loose tenon joinery. That might happen, but it is certainly no different than other technology introductions. Chisel to Morticer, Chisel to Router, Chisel to Domino. What's the difference? This is just Bigger Chisel to Bigger Domino.
Todd, Greg
You both make good points. I am just one for doing things theproper traditional way. Its the way i have been trained & it is the way i have taught all my apprentices & i don't think i will change. I do use the Domino for more & more things though but like i said, i do know its limits. It will be interesting to see this larger Domino. Could be a bit of a beast to handle.
I recently used the Domino to construct this Oak window, it saved me a huge amount of time [smile]
Woodguy
You both make good points. I am just one for doing things the
I recently used the Domino to construct this Oak window, it saved me a huge amount of time [smile]
Woodguy
Notorious T.O.D.
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Woodguy,
I know how you feel. For a long time after getting the Domino I used it with a feeling of somehow cheating on a true M&T joint. It is very handy for many things and far superior to any biscuit machine in my view...I have no use for biscuit joints anywhere. Yet somehow the Domino felt like cheating, so I guess that is why I have and use a Leigh FMT Pro which makes a larger variety of size of M&T joints which are in the more traditional fashion or pattern. I also use a mortiser on occasion and even can hand cut and chop them when needed.
I agree with you on the point of woodworkers having the knowledge of how to do things with hand planes and hand tool methods. Once these methods are understood I believe it makes it easier for the woodworker to know how to properly use and integrate machines properly into their process. Learn to flatten a board with planes and winding sticks and you will much better understand how to best use a power jointer for the same task as I am sure you understand.
Best,
Todd
I know how you feel. For a long time after getting the Domino I used it with a feeling of somehow cheating on a true M&T joint. It is very handy for many things and far superior to any biscuit machine in my view...I have no use for biscuit joints anywhere. Yet somehow the Domino felt like cheating, so I guess that is why I have and use a Leigh FMT Pro which makes a larger variety of size of M&T joints which are in the more traditional fashion or pattern. I also use a mortiser on occasion and even can hand cut and chop them when needed.
I agree with you on the point of woodworkers having the knowledge of how to do things with hand planes and hand tool methods. Once these methods are understood I believe it makes it easier for the woodworker to know how to properly use and integrate machines properly into their process. Learn to flatten a board with planes and winding sticks and you will much better understand how to best use a power jointer for the same task as I am sure you understand.
Best,
Todd
I presume that when you say use shorter screws you are meaning that the screws will give way before the joints fail [eek]
Sorry but i want a door to stay together & swinging even if 2 full sized adults are swinging on it. I still think that anyone using this meathod to construct an entry door either does not have the equipment or the ability to do it the propper way. Don't want to sound arrogant but that is how i feel about door construction. I would gladly let 2 full sized adults swing on any door I have made & hung [smile]
Woodguy.
Sorry but i want a door to stay together & swinging even if 2 full sized adults are swinging on it. I still think that anyone using this meathod to construct an entry door either does not have the equipment or the ability to do it the propper way. Don't want to sound arrogant but that is how i feel about door construction. I would gladly let 2 full sized adults swing on any door I have made & hung [smile]
Woodguy.
Brice Burrell
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I'm pretty sure Eiji, the op, has already made doors with Dominoes.
