Birch Plywood vs Hardwood for Drawer Boxes?

[Rick Herrick]

With a typical trim router when you trim the edge banding you have to balance the trimmer on the narrow edge of the stock.  The main benefit of the MFK is the horizontal base allows the tool to register off the side and provides a much more stable platform.  It also has special bits for for perfect round-overs on 1mm, 1.5mm or 2mm edge banding.  If you are just looking for a quick (cheaper) alternative fastcap has the lil'lipper that attaches to a standard trimmer.  It wont give you all the bells and whistles of the MFK but will provide 90 degree edge banding trimming without having to try and balance the trimmer on the 3/4" edge.

Thank you.  Does it come with those special bits you mention.  I had forgotten about the "Lil-lipper" but I can see a lot of edge banding in my future so a more solid choice (like the MFK) makes sense.  Just have to make sure $600 is worth it.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

I am lucky in that I can use the MFK 700 which excels at that task.

[member=39505]jcrowe1950[/member] Thank you.  I am interested in this information.  I have been doing a lot of edge banding on birch for garage cabinets.  How does the MFK as a trim router do the edge banding better than your basic trim router?  Does it fare well out of the box or do I have to buy a few accessories to get the most out of it?

    The MFK 700 kit comes with a base that is used specifically to do edge banding trimming. Hard to describe how it works but you take the motor off the default base and mount a horizontal base which allows you to route a 1.5˚ bevel on your edge banding and with .1mm adjustability in depth of cut, it's pretty easy to dial the trim in. The only caveat is that if you have two cabinet edges adjacent to each other the 1.5˚ bevel becomes visible between cabinets, but Festool, of course has an answer..the 0˚ bevel base. I'm fairly certain that Sedge covers it briefly in one of the Festool Friday videos. Suffice it to say, my description is inadequate but if you are ever in Chattanooga I can demo it for you... 8)

I ended up buying the OF1010 and adapters to use it to trim 3/4” hardwood edge banding I glued to some shop cabinets.  It worked good enough to get it close and then I finished with a hand plane. The only downside was the kids were making noise upstairs and I lost focus for a second which caused me to forget to support the weight and it caused a bit of a gouge on a small section. This probably wouldn’t have happened with the MFK but I didn’t think the MFK could handle 3/4” edge banding ... is it true the max depth it can handle is 1/2”?  I know Paul Marcel did a mod which allows a longer depth but am not familiar with whether that opened it up to 1” or not?

 

[afish]

With a typical trim router when you trim the edge banding you have to balance the trimmer on the narrow edge of the stock.  The main benefit of the MFK is the horizontal base allows the tool to register off the side and provides a much more stable platform.  It also has special bits for for perfect round-overs on 1mm, 1.5mm or 2mm edge banding.  If you are just looking for a quick (cheaper) alternative fastcap has the lil'lipper that attaches to a standard trimmer.  It wont give you all the bells and whistles of the MFK but will provide 90 degree edge banding trimming without having to try and balance the trimmer on the 3/4" edge.

Thank you.  Does it come with those special bits you mention.  I had forgotten about the "Lil-lipper" but I can see a lot of edge banding in my future so a more solid choice (like the MFK) makes sense.  Just have to make sure $600 is worth it.

Unfortunately no, It doesnt come with any bits.  The standard flush trim bit is an extra $55 and then each profile bit is another $150 and the knives are not interchangeable between the profiling bits so hopefully you dont switch back and forth between different thicknesses of edge banding since the bits will add up fast. you do get the vertical base and the 1.5 degree horizontal base if you want the 0 degree horizontal its another $150 

 

[afish]

It's also an option to edgeband plywood with solid stock but it adds considerably to the effort.  I find the iron-on edgebanding to be dodgy at best.

  In my opinion, I like solid edge banding a lot more than veneer edge banding. This is especially true if you are making a "better than Ikea" class of furniture. I have used tongue and groove for solid edge banding and there are also router bit sets that cut a V in the sheet goods and the matching profile for the actual edge banding....if you trim it really carefully to the hardwood plywood...it can appear to be solid wood.....tricky but doable. 8)

I know we are talking mostly drawers here and agree the solid hardwood edgeband can be a good choice it isnt always the best choice.  It wont work well when doing door and drawer fronts with hardwood plywood unless you are veneering the face on after you have glued on the edgebanding.  Since it will create a picture frame effect.  This is where the veneer edgebanding shines.  For drawers I would either use solid hardwood or 9 or 13 ply on anything other than fine furniture.  Unless I had access to a good edgebander and even then the biggest draw would be so I could use prefinished and save the hassle of applying finish to the drawers.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

This brings up another point ... the Birch is unfinished and I'm wondering if I'd spray it before assembly or after assembly?

 

[afish]

I have been finishing my drawers after assembly but its not my favorite.  Between sanding in the corners and the blow back when spray finishing.  I have started to question my workflow.  On one hand I like the exposed dominos and rounded edges on the top of the drawers so using prefinished sheets doesnt work well since I would still have to touch up the dominos and the top edges or edgeband them and then they would be square edges too, not the end of the world but not my fav. either. 

 

[jcrowe1950]

I know we are talking mostly drawers here and agree the solid hardwood edgeband can be a good choice it isnt always the best choice.  It wont work well when doing door and drawer fronts with hardwood plywood unless you are veneering the face on after you have glued on the edgebanding.  Since it will create a picture frame effect.  This is where the veneer edgebanding shines.  For drawers I would either use solid hardwood or 9 or 13 ply on anything other than fine furniture.  Unless I had access to a good edgebander and even then the biggest draw would be so I could use prefinished and save the hassle of applying finish to the drawers.

Afish speaks the truth on this one.....thanks for the contribution. Boy do I wish I had access to a Conturo sometimes. If I did this for money, I'd definitely have a Conturo and a Sys Vac.

 

[Cheese]

I'll eventually move onto kitchen cabinets and wonder whether you all use plywood with edge banding or hardwood for your cabinet drawer boxes? 

For a built-in chest with 20 drawers, I purchased the drawers completely assembled. That was the cheapest method I could come up with.

The drawer sides are 5/8" maple and the bottom is 1/4" BB ply. Everything came dovetailed, assembled & sanded with cutouts for Blumotion slides along with the 75º holes for the Blum locking devices. A 28" wide x 21" deep x 5" tall drawer was $50.

I purchased them locally from Fleetwoods in Ham Lake Minnesota, so they are not that far from you. I think it only took a week for them to produce the order. I'd be willing to bet that if you asked them, they'd flat pack them for you and then you could do the assembly.
http://www.fleetwoods.net/#http://www.fleetwoods.net/media/pdf/STANDARD_DOVETAIL_DRAWER_BOXES.pdf

Here's a drawer as received.

[attachimg=1]

The same drawer after a very very light sanding and 1 coat of Surfix.

[attachimg=2]

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Thanks Cheese, those look nice!

 

[FestitaMakool]

Smart to buy the drawers ready built, or indeed flat packed ready to assemble.
I’ll totally remodel my kitchen later, and the drawers are not tempting to do by myself, as I ideally want them dovetailed. This would be time consuming, and I’d rather focus on the fronts and the cabinet with facia. I’m sure gonna ask for a quote with some who has the machinery to do drawer carcass fast and easy.

 

[jcrowe1950]

For a built-in chest with 20 drawers, I purchased the drawers completely assembled. That was the cheapest method I could come up with.

The drawer sides are 5/8" maple and the bottom is 1/4" BB ply. Everything came dovetailed, assembled & sanded with cutouts for Blumotion slides along with the 75º holes for the Blum locking devices. A 28" wide x 21" deep x 5" tall drawer was $50.

I purchased them locally from Fleetwoods in Ham Lake Minnesota, so they are not that far from you. I think it only took a week for them to produce the order. I'd be willing to bet that if you asked them, they'd flat pack them for you and then you could do the assembly.

Hey Cheese,

    Brilliant point on drawer construction and especially nice for inset drawers....the fact that the Blum cutouts are included is a huge timesaver bonus. I also like that you are using Surfix....I like it more and more the more I use it.

Again, thanks.

 

[JeromeM]

Plywood can be a design feature on high end cabinets.  We had cabinets made for our kitchen remodel by a company called Henrybuilt in Seattle.  They made the plies on the wood a design feature.

We love them.  Wish I had a source for this quality of plywood.  We visited their manufacturing facility one, it was very impressive. 

Bob

You have two options for sourcing the plywood.

The first is to ask the company that made your drawer boxes where they buy their plywood.
The second is to go to a quality woodyard not a big box store and they can supply any quality of plywood that you want to spend the money on. The only problem is that they will stock in large quantities so you won’t be able to make a specialist order fo a couple of sheets.

However they will certainly be able to tell you the woodyard which carry the kind of plywood that you want all that can order it in. They may also be able to tell you the retailers that they sell to. Plywood in an 8 x 4 sheet can cost anything from $30 up to several Hundred dollars per sheet if you’re getting a complete hardwood veneer with hardwood core and a very specialist kind of hardwood made into the plywood that you want to buy.

Shannon Rodgers who makes the Shannon‘s Lumber Industry Update podcast has a couple on exactly that subject.

He works for a lumber company and has very interesting points.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Plywood can be a design feature on high end cabinets.  We had cabinets made for our kitchen remodel by a company called Henrybuilt in Seattle.  They made the plies on the wood a design feature.

We love them.  Wish I had a source for this quality of plywood.  We visited their manufacturing facility one, it was very impressive. 

Bob

You have two options for sourcing the plywood.

The first is to ask the company that made your drawer boxes where they buy their plywood.
The second is to go to a quality woodyard not a big box store and they can supply any quality of plywood that you want to spend the money on. The only problem is that they will feel in large quantities so you won’t be able to make a specialist order. However they will certainly be able to tell you the woodyard which carry the kind of plywood that you want all that can order it in. They may also be able to tell you the retailers that they sell to. Plywood in an 8 x 4 sheet can cost anything from $30 up to several Hundred dollars per sheet if you’re getting a complete hardwood with hardwood core and a very specialist kind of hardwood made into the plywood that you want to buy.
Shannon Rodgers who makes the Shannon‘s Lumber Industry Update podcast has a couple on exactly that subject.

A friend who owns a cabinet shop gets 3/4” Maple veneer plywood with 1 side pre-finished for $60 from a local plywood supplier; however, when I call as a normal customer, it’s $150-$180 ... SMH.

 

[JeromeM]

A friend who owns a cabinet shop gets 3/4” Maple veneer plywood with 1 side pre-finished for $60 from a local plywood supplier; however, when I call as a normal customer, it’s $150-$180 ... SMH.

Not very surprised at that, the cabinet shop has a relationship with the supplier, you don’t. He is continually buying material, you aren’t. Your purchase may well break a pack, his probably doesn’t, or they know roughly when he will need the rest.

A 3rd way that I forgot is to ask a cabinet shop if you can buy from them, or if the parts you need are small enough if you can buy the off cuts they generate from them

 

[SGreenberg]

The plywood in the first picture looks like Fin Color Ply. Really nice to work with. Not cheap but very high quality.

 

[mkasdin]

Smart to buy the drawers ready built, or indeed flat packed ready to assemble.
I’ll totally remodel my kitchen later, and the drawers are not tempting to do by myself, as I ideally want them dovetailed. This would be time consuming, and I’d rather focus on the fronts and the cabinet with facia. I’m sure gonna ask for a quote with some who has the machinery to do drawer carcass fast and easy.

Leightools has a number of jigs for dovetail and box joints. So does the usual cast of suspects: woodcraft, Incra, rockler, jessem?, harbor freight, etc. I would say once you get it dialed into the jig it’s a matter of taking the time to bang out the draws. Now if they were hand cut dovetails that’s time consuming. I’m pretty sure the companies are using a dedicated cnc or using a table saw jig like incra...I’ve seen some YouTube shop made jigs that offset the kerf sequentially. If think there’s a reason to pay to have them made vs. shop made...

 

[Birdhunter]

I’ve found Baltic Birch wonderful for drawers and most other shop cabinet parts. I do glue hardwood trim on all exposed edges. The exposed BB edges look ok at first, but can become tattered after time.

I recently made a very large and complex reception cubical/desk/storage system from BB for a Pilates studio. All exposed edges had a 3/8” trip piece glued on. I trimmed the edging with a block plane and a very light sanding.

I have the Festool trim router, but prefer the satisfaction of using a scary sharp plane.

 

[MaineShop]

I often use both baltic birch or maple for drawers, for me it depends on the size of drawers on a project. For some kitchens with very large drawers which seems to be a trend I prefer the baltic. For projects with smaller drawers like a vanity I tend to use maple.

 

[Josh2]

I just want to mention another great option: Many lumber stores sell drawer material, which is birch plywood, 8' long, cut to different common drawer widths, with 1/4 groove and edge banding on the top. So you should have to crosscut and join. It saves so much work.

For kitchen and more fine work, I use white oak with box joints. Lot's of work though and a drawer costs me about $100-120 including the hardware (blum). Love the style though.

 

[Packard]

I made shop drawers from 3/4" plywood--mainly because I could glue and screw the bottoms in place--something I would not do with hardwood drawers.