Bizarre Sherwin Williams Experience

[PaulH99]

I just came home after the most bizarre experience with Sherwin Williams. I've called or visited at least six different stores including the Commercial Paint Store in Medford, MA in search of Kem Aqua Plus White. None had any in stock but each referred me to the Product Finishes Factility in Lowell, MA.

When I arrived I asked for the manager and explained what I was doing (kitchen cabinets with a five-stage HVLP) and the product I was looking for. She looked horrified and told me that I would need a certified paint booth. According to her, KAP cannot be sprayed outside because the EPA would fine me due to the VOC content, and it can't be sprayed inside because of the explosion risk. She refused to sell it to me unless I could show proof of a certified spray booth.

She printed the data sheet with all of the specifics and sent my on my way. According to the data sheet it is a low VOC product and the flash point (e.g. explosion risk) is listed as "none".

WTF? Am I missing something here or do they really, really not want to sell KAP to the public?

 

[Gregor]

From the MSDS:

CARCINOGENICITY - Category 2

WARNING:  This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause
cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.  FOR INDUSTRIAL USE ONLY

Might explain your problem of obtaining that stuff.

 

[dltflt]

From the MSDS:

CARCINOGENICITY - Category 2

WARNING:  This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause
cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.  FOR INDUSTRIAL USE ONLY

Might explain your problem of obtaining that stuff.

If everyone went with the California warnings, we would not be able to use anything.

 

[PaulH99]

I'm in Massachusetts. We're a bit of a nanny state as well, but no where near as bad as CA!  [blink]

From the MSDS:

CARCINOGENICITY - Category 2

WARNING:  This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause
cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.  FOR INDUSTRIAL USE ONLY

Might explain your problem of obtaining that stuff.

 

[live4ever]

Bizarre.  But not surprising.

 

[Cheese]

There are others on the FOG that squirt KAP all the time. I doubt they all have access to a certified spray booth.

I’d contact SW corporate and get their readout.

So, just one person trying to save the world from itself...a gallon of paint at a time.  [eek]

 

[peter halle]

I have had a similar experience with my local Benjamin Moore dealer when inquiring about their brand of lacquer.  I later came back and talked to the manager explaining things.  I should be able to buy it now.

Litigious world we live in.

Peter

 

[leakyroof]

I have had a similar experience with my local Benjamin Moore dealer when inquiring about their brand of lacquer.  I later came back and talked to the manager explaining things.  I should be able to buy it now.

Litigious world we live in.

Peter

. You just had to tell them ‘ I AM a Spray Booth unto Myself’.... [wink]

 

[bkharman]

Being in MA and talking about a paint booth reminds me of that old Adam Sandler skit (on tape only or CD at best)... Toll Booth Willy...

I’m coming out the boof!!!

Cheers. Bryan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tjbnwi]

The spray booth requirements do not apply to you as an individual. They also do not apply to anyone/business spraying 1 gallon or less per day.

The store manager does not know this product.
https://www3.epa.gov/ttn/atw/area/paint_stripb.pdf

TOM

 

[Pnw painter]

The Product Finish stores aren’t like your normal SW retail stores. Their clients are typically cabinet shops and industrial finishers.

Due to the type of products they sell they don’t like and/or want to sell to the general public.

My guess is that the person you were talking to was mistaking Kem Aqua for Kem Aqua Plus.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DynaGlide]

Reviving an old thread.

I always assumed Kem Aqua surfacer and Plus were not allowed without a booth because of explosion proof concerns. Is this not the case? Is it due to some other reason that they don't want to sell it to the public?

I'm setting up a booth w/ blower that is not explosion proof. Is it safe to run KA+ and surfacer through the blower?

[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It's a water-based acrylic, what is the issue? Why would they be worried about explosion?
I have never used it myself, because we generally use ML Campbell products. Depending on specific requirements, back and forth between Pre-cat Lacquer (solvent based) Conversion varnish, and Agualente (water based acrylic)

 

[DynaGlide]

It's a water-based acrylic, what is the issue? Why would they be worried about explosion?
I have never used it myself, because we generally use ML Campbell products. Depending on specific requirements, back and forth between Pre-cat Lacquer (solvent based) Conversion varnish, and Agualente (water based acrylic)

I don't know in my mind I just always assumed they required something because of that. So I guess my next question is what is off limits for spraying without the explosion proof?

And what makes the KA+ dry so fast compared to say a regular waterborne top coat. 25min re coat on the data sheet. You can sand the primer in 30min.

 

[tjbnwi]

Reviving an old thread.

I always assumed Kem Aqua surfacer and Plus were not allowed without a booth because of explosion proof concerns. Is this not the case? Is it due to some other reason that they don't want to sell it to the public?

I'm setting up a booth w/ blower that is not explosion proof. Is it safe to run KA+ and surfacer through the blower?

[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member]

They don't normally sell it to the general public because it is a professional product that takes some getting used to. Unlike solvent finishes which look their best right off the gun, waterbornes take at least 72 hours to tighten and look good, they look their best after about a week or two. Just the nature of how the carriers are released.

Do not mix Kem Aqua and Kem Aqua+ in any way what so ever, not even spraying one over the other wet or dry. You will not be happy with the outcome.

Execpt for the possiblity of air born dust there is no fire/explosion hazard with either product. See section 16 of the attached SDS. The TDS is also available online.

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWPCGWOOD&doctype=SDS&prodno=035777053836&lang=2&cntry=US

That said, I recommend you use Hydro Plus (Product Finish Store only also) for the top coat and Gen II primer for the prime coat.  Hydro Plus is a waterborne tintable urethane. We find HP more durable than KA or KA+. Between the two HP products we shoot on average 300 gallons a month.

Avoid kicking up the dry fall and other dust while spraying. Follow the TDS and you should not have any issues.

Tom

 

[DynaGlide]

Reviving an old thread.

I always assumed Kem Aqua surfacer and Plus were not allowed without a booth because of explosion proof concerns. Is this not the case? Is it due to some other reason that they don't want to sell it to the public?

I'm setting up a booth w/ blower that is not explosion proof. Is it safe to run KA+ and surfacer through the blower?

[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member]

They don't normally sell it to the general public because it is a professional product that takes some getting used to. Unlike solvent finishes which look their best right off the gun, waterbornes take at least 72 hours to tighten and look good, they look their best after about a week or two. Just the nature of how the carriers are released.

Do not mix Kem Aqua and Kem Aqua+ in any way what so ever, not even spraying one over the other wet or dry. You will not be happy with the outcome.

Execpt for the possiblity of air born dust there is no fire/explosion hazard with either product. See section 16 of the attached SDS. The TDS is also available online.

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWPCGWOOD&doctype=SDS&prodno=035777053836&lang=2&cntry=US

That said, I recommend you use Hydro Plus (Product Finish Store only also) for the top coat and Gen II primer for the prime coat.  Hydro Plus is a waterborne tintable urethane. We find HP more durable than KA or KA+. Between the two HP products we shoot on average 300 gallons a month.

Avoid kicking up the dry fall and other dust while spraying. Follow the TDS and you should not have any issues.

Tom

Thanks as always Tom. The closest store to me that stocks KA+ is ~40min and they aren't that knowledgeable. I think my plan for the next run of cabinets is to use KA surfacer under the Gallery series top coat. It's what I picked up and have access to locally. I know I'll have to use a larger tip and thin the Gallery. Around here in Northern VA there just aren't any seemingly knowledgeable SW stores. Which is why I'm leery of trying anything that I can't get easily.

I had good success with KA+ top coat in the past. It was finnicky with temperature and humidity swings but I worked around that and I like the results. Not having to thin it was a huge plus.

Matt

 

[Cheese]

That said, I recommend you use Hydro Plus (Product Finish Store only also) for the top coat and Gen II primer for the prime coat.  Hydro Plus is a waterborne tintable urethane. We find HP more durable than KA or KA+. Between the two HP products we shoot on average 300 gallons a month.

Avoid kicking up the dry fall and other dust while spraying. Follow the TDS and you should not have any issues.

Tom

Interesting Tom...when I pulled up the TDS for HYDROPLUS™ WATERBORNE WHITE TOPCOAT, there is a DISCONTINUED stamped across all 3 pages, I wonder if there is a new offering in the works?

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWPCGWOOD&doctype=PDS&prodno=076590517723&lang=2

 

[tjbnwi]

That said, I recommend you use Hydro Plus (Product Finish Store only also) for the top coat and Gen II primer for the prime coat.  Hydro Plus is a waterborne tintable urethane. We find HP more durable than KA or KA+. Between the two HP products we shoot on average 300 gallons a month.

Avoid kicking up the dry fall and other dust while spraying. Follow the TDS and you should not have any issues.

Tom

Interesting Tom...when I pulled up the TDS for HYDROPLUS™ WATERBORNE WHITE TOPCOAT, there is a DISCONTINUED stamped across all 3 pages, I wonder if there is a new offering in the works?

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWPCGWOOD&doctype=PDS&prodno=076590517723&lang=2

Sorry, I forgot they changed the formula and name about 4 months ago.
https://industrial.sherwin-williams...ea-hydroplus-waterborne-topcoat.21036508.html

PDS for the HP EA;

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWPCGWOOD&doctype=PDS&prodno=076590646300&lang=2

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

Reviving an old thread.

I always assumed Kem Aqua surfacer and Plus were not allowed without a booth because of explosion proof concerns. Is this not the case? Is it due to some other reason that they don't want to sell it to the public?

I'm setting up a booth w/ blower that is not explosion proof. Is it safe to run KA+ and surfacer through the blower?

[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member]

They don't normally sell it to the general public because it is a professional product that takes some getting used to. Unlike solvent finishes which look their best right off the gun, waterbornes take at least 72 hours to tighten and look good, they look their best after about a week or two. Just the nature of how the carriers are released.

Do not mix Kem Aqua and Kem Aqua+ in any way what so ever, not even spraying one over the other wet or dry. You will not be happy with the outcome.

Execpt for the possiblity of air born dust there is no fire/explosion hazard with either product. See section 16 of the attached SDS. The TDS is also available online.

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWPCGWOOD&doctype=SDS&prodno=035777053836&lang=2&cntry=US

That said, I recommend you use Hydro Plus (Product Finish Store only also) for the top coat and Gen II primer for the prime coat.  Hydro Plus is a waterborne tintable urethane. We find HP more durable than KA or KA+. Between the two HP products we shoot on average 300 gallons a month.

Avoid kicking up the dry fall and other dust while spraying. Follow the TDS and you should not have any issues.

Tom

Thanks as always Tom. The closest store to me that stocks KA+ is ~40min and they aren't that knowledgeable. I think my plan for the next run of cabinets is to use KA surfacer under the Gallery series top coat. It's what I picked up and have access to locally. I know I'll have to use a larger tip and thin the Gallery. Around here in Northern VA there just aren't any seemingly knowledgeable SW stores. Which is why I'm leery of trying anything that I can't get easily.

I had good success with KA+ top coat in the past. It was finnicky with temperature and humidity swings but I worked around that and I like the results. Not having to thin it was a huge plus.

Matt

Matt,

Look into spraying Cabinet Coat, it is now a Benjamin Moore product. You should be able to get it at a BM dealer or a local Ace Hardware.

Use Styx primer.

Tom