Brass Metric setup bars and PC style guide bushings?

[Brice Burrell]

  Is there anyone with a machine shop or a machinist buddy who could produce brass Metric setup bars and PC style guide bushings? If we can setup a group buy the price could be reasonable, what do you think?

 

[greg mann]

You want metric PC style bushings?

 

[Brice Burrell]

You want metric PC style bushings?

Yep. I have some Metric bits, I'd like to have a collection of bushings to go with them.

 

[greg mann]

Not promising anything yet but I have a colleage (sp?) with a Hardinge lathe that might be able to crank some out. It's how he makes his living so he needs to be profitable but he is very efficient and it might work for all. Tell me what sizes you are interested in. I have a set of brass Imperials so we can model after those. Do you want to use them with your 1400 and its PC adapter? If so, we should measure carefully so we can take out some of the slop that usually shows up.

Might as well tell me what shims you are looking for too.  ;D

Regarding spacers, I have a set of square gage blocks that I picked up at a garage sale for a song ($10). I asked the woman if she knew what they were and how it was that she was selling them. She said her husband had retired and he wanted to get rid of everything. I had felt sure he had died and she had no idea what they were worth but thankfully that was not the case and, since he apparently didn't value them much, I bought them with a clear conscience. Even though they are hardened steel and can damage tools if you don't know what you are doing they are a great luxury. I can set any length I want in seconds. It was the second day of the sale and I have no idea what I might have missed out on. I figure they were still there because no one had a clue what they were.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Greg, I would use them in any of my 7 routers, so maybe an average measurement of a few different brands might be best for me. However, if others are interested, a perfect fit for Festool routers is a better option. 10, 16, 20, 24, 30 and 40 mm bushings and setup bars in 5-20 mm.

 

[Gene Howerton]

I would be interested as well, since I started down the Festool path I have also switched to Metric in the shop.  Just a lot easier.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I think consideration of that slop very important.  The OD of the threaded portion of PC style inlay kit I purchased from Whiteside was so tight I had to file it down to be able to install it in the PC adapter supplied with my Festool 1400 router.  In constrast, the set of PC style bushings I purchased from Woodcraft have a noticeably smaller OD on their externally threaded portions, so they can be adjusted somewhat to center them in the Festool PC ring adapter.  I think this one example where too close of tolerances will lead to problems, because the Festool PC adapter when snapped into the base of my 1400 router is NOT centered.  I had to selectively file material from one side of the externally threaded portion of my Whiteside inlay kit bushing in order to bring it near to true center of the router shaft.  (Festool considers this misalignment normal and the trade off for snap-in convenience.)

Dave R.

 

[John Stevens]

Depending on the price, I'd be interested in a set of the set-up bars. I'm not looking for an exact price, just a ballpark figure, and if the final cost exceeded the estimated cost by two/three sawbucks, I'd still be in.

Regards,

John

 

[Scott W.]

  Is there anyone with a machine shop or a machinist buddy who could produce brass Metric setup bars and PC style guide bushings? If we can setup a group buy the price could be reasonable, what do you think?

Brice,

What is a setup bar?  Are you talking about gauge blocks, like used in machining?

Scott W.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Scott, yes. Brass setup bars.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Greg, I would use them in any of my 7 routers, so maybe an average measurement of a few different brands might be best for me. However, if others are interested, a perfect fit for Festool routers is a better option. 10, 16, 20, 24, 30 and 40 mm bushings and setup bars in 5-20 mm.

I suggest that the individual members of a set of metric setup bars be chosen so that a wide range of exact dimensions can be set.  For example, if the set included 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, and 20 mm, you could create just about any combination from 1 through 39 mm.  If the set is intended only to be used with Festool routers, fewer setup bars would suffice if the user is willing to use the built-in micro-depth adjustment feature (each turn of the dial being one millimeter).

I also suggest we collect multiple data inputs for each brand of PC style bushings, because each manufacturer is also going to have manufacturing tolerances for its own production.  That tolerance data is seldom published by a manufacturer and commonly held as a trade secret.  That could explain why my the PC style bushing of my Whiteside inlay kit would not fit the adapter supplied with my Festool 1400 router until I filed away some of the external threads.

Dave R.

 

[Scott W.]

That's what I thought.

precision gauge blocks (used by machinist ) are readily available. They are not brass but steel,ceramic or carbide.

more accurate than needed in wood work (some down to microns) and you can find singles as opposed to sets if you look a bit.

here is a small set

Scott W.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Scott,

Yep, that set would definitely do, but its overkill for my needs.  And I would prefer a softer metal such as brass because I often use my Imperial bars as a mini-straight edge to align the fence on my router table exactly to the cutting edge of the bit (e.g. when zeroing out the fence for use with an Incra or JoinTech dovetailing template).  I don't want to "kiss" the carbide edges with hardened tool steel.  And I generally like longer bars, again so their straight edges can bridge the gap across the segments of a fence.

Dave R.

 

[Scott W.]

I suggest that the individual members of a set of metric setup bars be chosen so that a wide range of exact dimensions can be set.  For example, if the set included 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, and 20 mm, you could create just about any combination from 1 through 39 mm.  If the set is intended only to be used with Festool routers, fewer setup bars would suffice if the user is willing to use the built-in micro-depth adjustment feature (each turn of the dial being one millimeter).

I also suggest we collect multiple data inputs for each brand of PC style bushings, because each manufacturer is also going to have manufacturing tolerances for its own production.  That tolerance data is seldom published by a manufacturer and commonly held as a trade secret.  That could explain why my the PC style bushing of my Whiteside inlay kit would not fit the adapter supplied with my Festool 1400 router until I filed away some of the external threads.

Dave R.

Dave,

How long would you like the bars to be, and how accurate do they need to be?
I have a small mill but not a surface grinder.

If your not in a big hurry and there is enough interest I would consider making some. Brass bar stock from my supplier comes in 6ft lengths. 1" sq costs about $150 + shipping price goes down with size 1/2" is around $50 + shipping.

Could they be made rectangular?  example: 5mm x 6mm. That could cut the number needed.

Scott W.

Scott W.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Dave the set you described would have issues with the 1 and 2 mm bars, they would too easily bend. I think we could be able to generate enough interest to have setup bars made and keep the cost reasonable, I'm not sure about the guide bushings. Lets keep the ideas coming.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Scott,

3 inches would be long enough for me.  And square X-section would be perfect.  (I had assumed a square cross-section, but if a rectangular X-section was chosen, then you could get create more combination possibilities with fewer setup bars.

Brice,

I agree that a 1 mm bar would be delicate.  But I think a 1 mm X 5 mm strip might be sufficiently durable.  We're talking about gauge bars here, not tools for prying or other structural uses.  What if we started with a 3 mm or 5 mm thickness strip of brass stock that is wide enough to machine down a lenthwith portion that is 1 mm thick.  I'm not a machinest and don't know much about brass and bronze alloys, but I do know there are enough variety of them available that you can get materials exhibiting a wide range of hardnesses and stiffness.  I do have access to a few Ph.D. metallurgists and materials specialists, though whom I could ask if the need arises.  I have some brass feeler gauges that are in the range of 0.010" to 0.020" that have endured years of use in adjusting engine valves and ignition points, so I am not too worried about a ~0.039" thick gauge bar.

Dave R.

 

[Scott W.]

Scott,

3 inches would be long enough for me.  And square X-section would be perfect.  (I had assumed a square cross-section, but if a rectangular X-section was chosen, then you could get create more combination possibilities with fewer setup bars.

..............

Dave R.

If you guys decide on what you want size, length and shape. I will try to figure out what the material will cost. (I'll make them for free). We need to get enough people to use up the material (6 ft/size).

Scott W.

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Scott, I'm flexible on the sizes. I think 3" long, and as to shape, I prefer square, so you don't have to guess how to index the bar like you would with a rectangle shaped bar. That is why I'd like the set to start at 5 mm, anything much smaller couldn't be square. I also don't like to stack bars to make the bigger sizes.

So how else out there wants these things?

 

[Scott W.]

  Scott, I'm flexible on the sizes. I think 3" long, and as to shape, I prefer square, so you don't have to guess how to index the bar like you would with a rectangle shaped bar. That is why I'd like the set to start at 5 mm, anything much smaller couldn't be square. I also don't like to stack bars to make the bigger sizes.

So how else out there wants these things?

Brice,

What sizes?

Scott W.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I like the idea of having 5-20 mm.

Edit: Should have read, bars 5mm-20mm, example 5mm X 5mm X 3" long or so.