Building a door with the Domino XL

[BillG]

I am eagerly anticipating my Domino XL, and a job is waiting for it, an entry door for an older house.  I have a question for those who have had the benefit of getting their Domino XL machines early and had a chance to use them.  The lower rail is going to be 8" wide.  Would two of these monster dominoes be sufficient, or should I plan for three?  Any other tips for using it?  I have been using the original Domino for a number of years now, but anything new I can learn is always good. (as long as it is right, of course!) 

Thanks.

 

[jacko9]

I am eagerly anticipating my Domino XL, and a job is waiting for it, an entry door for an older house.  I have a question for those who have had the benefit of getting their Domino XL machines early and had a chance to use them.  The lower rail is going to be 8" wide.  Would two of these monster dominoes be sufficient, or should I plan for three?  Any other tips for using it?  I have been using the original Domino for a number of years now, but anything new I can learn is always good. (as long as it is right, of course!)  

Thanks.

Bill, Check out the videos of Paul Marcel on this site where he demonstrates making a wider mortise with the XL700 and the older Domino 500.  I think that for a 8" wide lower rail using two 12 or 14 mm tenons 2 1/2" wide would be a similar joint to the haunched tenons I cut on my mahogany exterior doors a while back.  Kinda like the attached picture but, with the tenons centered on the rail  (this joint was for a table apron).

Jack

 

[Dixon Peer]

I would use three.  When I build doors, I use a dowel borer with two spindles, and for a 2 1/4" door use four 5/8" dowels in the bottom rail, but usually that rail is 10" (just my preference)

 

[Rembo]

I put the two, I think that's enough. but the third will not be worse, that's for sure.
PS. I put the two that gives the router and not expanding.

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Bill

I am sure that 2 would be fine - nice wide 14mm doms will do the trick. Take a look at my videos where I used the DF700 to build a gate with extra wide doms. You will see how easy it is to calculate the settings as well. One lesson I learnt was that you need to allow a small gap for the glue to flow otherwise you get (as I did) hydraulic lock. I got there in the end but just allow about 0.5 mm.

Peter

 

[woodguy7]

2 or 3 ??  I just made an Ash door with 220mm bottom & middle rails & I have 5 12mm dominoes in each !  That sucker ain't gonna fail  ;D

 

[Timtool]

I made a set of doors for isolation cells of a mental institute with the XL some time ago, 70mm thick solid beech, with metal panels and thick glass,  real monsters.
I put four 14mm dominos in each joint, 20 tenons per door. The problem was that gluing, assembling and clamping this was a real nightmare and i bent the handles of half my clamps because the glue was settling during assembly. from then on i abandoned the idea of using regular dominos and i now simply make one wide slot and a custom width tennon, when the wood is really wide, then i put two tenons next to each other. This method makes assembly much more easy, and after a while you get the hang on making custom dominos and i can crank em out in a couple minutes.

 

[greg mann]

Call me crazy but I think where you put the tenon is more important than how many you use. The tenons do two things, they align the rails and stiles and they keep them together, but if you think about the force of gravity on a door there is an area of compression between the Rs and Ss and an area of tension. Where they are in compression relatively small tenons will do just fine (for alignment) but, where there is tension you want longer and larger tenons for more glue surface. It is my hunch that glue surface is more important than tenon thickness, because shear strength isn't an issue and tenons seldom fail from tension.

On the hinge side of a door the big tenons need to be at the top of the joints while the opposite is the case on the outer stile.

 

[Dixon Peer]

Call me crazy but I think where you put the tenon is more important than how many you use. The tenons do two things, they align the rails and stiles and they keep them together, but if you think about the force of gravity on a door there is an area of compression between the Rs and Ss and an area of tension. Where they are in compression relatively small tenons will do just fine (for alignment) but, where there is tension you want longer and larger tenons for more glue surface. It is my hunch that glue surface is more important than tenon thickness, because shear strength isn't an issue and tenons seldom fail from tension.

On the hinge side of a door the big tenons need to be at the top of the joints while the opposite is the case on the outer stile.

You are right, of course.  But not many of us will bother to change set ups in order to use the smaller tenon on the compression side of the joint.

 

[BillG]

Thanks for all the responses everyone.  Is there any compelling reason to go with one big tenon vs a few smaller ones?  I know there would be more glue surface, but I was under the impression this machine was designed just for this kind of work. 

 

[Rembo]

Thanks for all the responses everyone.  Is there any compelling reason to go with one big tenon vs a few smaller ones?  I know there would be more glue surface, but I was under the impression this machine was designed just for this kind of work.  

in each instance needs its own approach, sometimes it is necessary to expand the hole, and even with the upheaval of the workpiece.
for example, as in these doors ..

 

[Timtool]

Thanks for all the responses everyone.  Is there any compelling reason to go with one big tenon vs a few smaller ones?  I know there would be more glue surface, but I was under the impression this machine was designed just for this kind of work. 

When you make your own dominos then making 1 big tenon is faster than making 4 regular ones, gluing also goes allot faster. making the mortise takes a bit more time, but there at least you don't have to fight against time of drying glue. i think it's generally stronger as well. But everybody has their preferences, this is what i found out works best for me.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Check out the Domino XL video by Greg Paolini, Domino XL.  He is using 6 dominos per bottom rail joint on a large door project. I'm guessing he would not use that many unless if he felt that glue area was necessary.  I agree with Tim, that glue up would be really tricky without help.

 

[BillG]

Thanks again guys.  I have some time to think about this before I have to start cutting mortises. 

 

[RONWEN]

Check out the Domino XL video by Greg Paolini, Domino XL.  He is using 6 dominos per bottom rail joint on a large door project. I'm guessing he would not use that many unless if he felt that glue area was necessary.  I agree with Tim, that glue up would be really tricky without help.

Even though I was a bit curious about the name of the Woodpecker's Paolini rules, not so much that I investigated it -- I see one of the rules sticking out of Greg's pocket in the video and now it all comes together.  [cool]