Building Guido Henn's Chaos Wall - Any Advice/ Feedback
- Thread starter rookie08
- Start date
I guess most of the information is in this post:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/%27chaos-theory%27-new-how-to-video-from-guido-henn-on-festool-de/?all
but if you have specific questions just post it here.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/%27chaos-theory%27-new-how-to-video-from-guido-henn-on-festool-de/?all
but if you have specific questions just post it here.
Emer Construction
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- Nov 4, 2008
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- 58
i picked up the drill jig here.rookie08 said:
http://www.woodstocksupply.com/connector-drilling-jig-20166-hettich.html
i found rafix connectors pretty cheap on ebay.
I've been doing the planning/prep work to build some sys ports based on Guido's plans and have noticed a problem.
The dimensions as he has them (420 mm deep using 400 mm slides) does not appear to give enough clearance for the systainer tops to open to full vertical (i.e., stay open). A T-Loc will need min 335 mm of extension for this, but when I check the slides ( I have a bunch of 400 mm already), then only extend to about 317 mm.
Anyone else noticed this? Is it a problem?
Would be great to hear Guido's comments on this.
(Simple solution is just to go to the 457 mm slides and deeper cabinet).
The dimensions as he has them (420 mm deep using 400 mm slides) does not appear to give enough clearance for the systainer tops to open to full vertical (i.e., stay open). A T-Loc will need min 335 mm of extension for this, but when I check the slides ( I have a bunch of 400 mm already), then only extend to about 317 mm.
Anyone else noticed this? Is it a problem?
Would be great to hear Guido's comments on this.
(Simple solution is just to go to the 457 mm slides and deeper cabinet).
Kevin Stricker
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- Feb 6, 2009
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- 481
A better solution would be to switch to full extension 14" slides. Going over 16" deep would probably double your sheet goods as you need approx 16" of width depending on the slides used. At 16" deep you can get 2 sides, top, bottom, center divider, and another shelf per sheet.
You can buy 10 packs of 14" full extension slides for $65 on Amazon.
You can buy 10 packs of 14" full extension slides for $65 on Amazon.
Timtool
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- Mar 13, 2011
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Unless if you are using full extension slides, then you will need 550 mm slides to open Tlocs comfortably.
Remember the top latch sticks out when in open position. I just measured on my sysport workbench, you need them to extend at least 450mm if you want the top to stay open.
Remember the top latch sticks out when in open position. I just measured on my sysport workbench, you need them to extend at least 450mm if you want the top to stay open.
Kevin Stricker
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- Feb 6, 2009
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- 481
Hey Tim, good point on the T-locs. For a T-loc to have full opening of the lid with the latch up uses 405mm. The minimum clearance needed for the lid to open is 330mm. A 14" full extension slide gives you 355mm, or 380mm with 1" over travel.
Btw the $65 price I listed in the previous email is for 10 pair of 14" slides with 1" over travel. You can get them directly from Gliderite for $33.90 plus shipping.
Btw the $65 price I listed in the previous email is for 10 pair of 14" slides with 1" over travel. You can get them directly from Gliderite for $33.90 plus shipping.
Thanks for all the input everyone. Here's where I am so far.
Guido was incredibly kind and helpful and sent me the hafele parts and numbers (cut and pasted below for everyone). What a great guy! Guido if you are reading this thanks once more!
I used buyhafele.com which is based right here in Baltimore so I got a bit of a discount, but they ship nationwide.
Regarding the depth, I ended going 20 inches deep as I have about 20 drawers left over I want to adapt to the wall unit so I had to decided between going with the 14 depth for the systainers and then bumping out when I got to the 3 sections/towers with the drawers, or going 20 inches deep all the way across. Decided on 20 for a couple of reasons mainly, 1) makes it more flexible if I want to change stuff around in the future and 2) makes fabrication, faster, simpler, (for me), if main components are basically the same.
On another thread someone mentioned CHS for slides and service and I got a great deal on a bunch of closeout 20's so that should take care of the systainer depth ( there will be some dead space behind the systainer section but overall it works better for me. Yes, I'll use a bit more material but I'm a bit "overstocked" on sheet goods so this will be a good chance to use some of it up. [unsure]
Drill jig looks sweet, but dear, when it comes to price (poor pun, I know) LOL. [big grin] I'm planning on making the jigs Guido shows.
Besides the depth difference, mine will be shorter due to height limits, plus I may add doors to the bottom in addition to the top. My shop is somewhat narrow and though I'm mostly dustless, thank you Festool, some still gets away, plus a bit of paint overspray here and there. [embarassed]
I'll post pics when I'm done if anyone is interested.
Below are the part numbers from Guido fro the main hafele sight.
"Here are some links for the right connectors you are looking for:
Item #: 263.13.705
Rafix SE without Ridge, zinc, nickel-plated, 19mmhttps://hachol02.hafeleonline.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=11730&item=18327
Item #: 267.00.012
Sleeve Nut, steel, brightened, M4, 5mm x 18mmhttps://hachol02.hafeleonline.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=11730&item=18718
Item #: 263.21.817
Rafix Bolt, steel, zinc-plated, galvanized, M4, diameter 7 x 7.5mmhttps://hachol02.hafeleonline.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=11730&item=18371
Item #: 263.20.856
Rafix Bolt, steel, zinc-plated, galvanized, diameter 7 x 15mm, 5mm"https://hachol02.hafeleonline.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=11730&item=18367
Cheers,
James
Guido was incredibly kind and helpful and sent me the hafele parts and numbers (cut and pasted below for everyone). What a great guy! Guido if you are reading this thanks once more!
I used buyhafele.com which is based right here in Baltimore so I got a bit of a discount, but they ship nationwide.
Regarding the depth, I ended going 20 inches deep as I have about 20 drawers left over I want to adapt to the wall unit so I had to decided between going with the 14 depth for the systainers and then bumping out when I got to the 3 sections/towers with the drawers, or going 20 inches deep all the way across. Decided on 20 for a couple of reasons mainly, 1) makes it more flexible if I want to change stuff around in the future and 2) makes fabrication, faster, simpler, (for me), if main components are basically the same.
On another thread someone mentioned CHS for slides and service and I got a great deal on a bunch of closeout 20's so that should take care of the systainer depth ( there will be some dead space behind the systainer section but overall it works better for me. Yes, I'll use a bit more material but I'm a bit "overstocked" on sheet goods so this will be a good chance to use some of it up. [unsure]
Drill jig looks sweet, but dear, when it comes to price (poor pun, I know) LOL. [big grin] I'm planning on making the jigs Guido shows.
Besides the depth difference, mine will be shorter due to height limits, plus I may add doors to the bottom in addition to the top. My shop is somewhat narrow and though I'm mostly dustless, thank you Festool, some still gets away, plus a bit of paint overspray here and there. [embarassed]
I'll post pics when I'm done if anyone is interested.
Below are the part numbers from Guido fro the main hafele sight.
"Here are some links for the right connectors you are looking for:
Item #: 263.13.705
Rafix SE without Ridge, zinc, nickel-plated, 19mmhttps://hachol02.hafeleonline.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=11730&item=18327
Item #: 267.00.012
Sleeve Nut, steel, brightened, M4, 5mm x 18mmhttps://hachol02.hafeleonline.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=11730&item=18718
Item #: 263.21.817
Rafix Bolt, steel, zinc-plated, galvanized, M4, diameter 7 x 7.5mmhttps://hachol02.hafeleonline.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=11730&item=18371
Item #: 263.20.856
Rafix Bolt, steel, zinc-plated, galvanized, diameter 7 x 15mm, 5mm"https://hachol02.hafeleonline.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=11730&item=18367
Cheers,
James
I am building a shorter version of the "Guido wall". Today I was doing most of the cuts and used the LR 32 stop flags to do repetitive cuts. It permitted to cut the time in half for the cuts. This came from a you tube video How to use the Festool LR 32 System in Center of Panel
Rookie08 thank you for the list of material. My local dealer only had a 1/3 of what I needed and was not going to be restock for another 2 weeks.
Tomorrow is LR32 day and hopefully assembling the first cabinet if I didn't screw up.
Bruce
Rookie08 thank you for the list of material. My local dealer only had a 1/3 of what I needed and was not going to be restock for another 2 weeks.
Tomorrow is LR32 day and hopefully assembling the first cabinet if I didn't screw up.
Bruce
Guido
Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2011
- Messages
- 24
Hi fritter63 and anyone else building the chaos wall,
you are right, you can't open the lids of the systainers completly to 90º. If you like to do so, you have to switch to full extension drawers or - like you have suggested - use the next lenght of the drawer slides (450 mm) and make the cabinet deeper.
If you have a lot of old Systainer, you normaly won't have any trouble with this, because the lids are not so "smooth" than the lids of the T-Locks, they will stay open also in 80º position, like you can see on the photos below. Also the upper first row of drawers, dont make any problems although this lids can only be opend about 75º, because they are stoped by the 19 mm thick drawer front. But with the T-Lock systainer you have no chance, they will always fall down.
For me this is no problem and after more than half year using the "chaos wall" (funny term), I found out that this could be an advantage, because the lids (of the T-Locks only) are always closed an no dust can get into the systainers, and for getting things out an in, its for me handy enough. When I store the T-Lock in my wall, I also take of the front lock knob, because thats makes it more quick an easy to get things out an in. But nevertheless if I will find out that I need this feature, I would switch to fully extension slides. I think this is more useful than a deeper cabinet.
I hope this could help you a little bit, if somone have further questions let me know ...
Best regards
Guido
you are right, you can't open the lids of the systainers completly to 90º. If you like to do so, you have to switch to full extension drawers or - like you have suggested - use the next lenght of the drawer slides (450 mm) and make the cabinet deeper.
If you have a lot of old Systainer, you normaly won't have any trouble with this, because the lids are not so "smooth" than the lids of the T-Locks, they will stay open also in 80º position, like you can see on the photos below. Also the upper first row of drawers, dont make any problems although this lids can only be opend about 75º, because they are stoped by the 19 mm thick drawer front. But with the T-Lock systainer you have no chance, they will always fall down.
For me this is no problem and after more than half year using the "chaos wall" (funny term), I found out that this could be an advantage, because the lids (of the T-Locks only) are always closed an no dust can get into the systainers, and for getting things out an in, its for me handy enough. When I store the T-Lock in my wall, I also take of the front lock knob, because thats makes it more quick an easy to get things out an in. But nevertheless if I will find out that I need this feature, I would switch to fully extension slides. I think this is more useful than a deeper cabinet.
I hope this could help you a little bit, if somone have further questions let me know ...
Best regards
Guido
Guido
Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2011
- Messages
- 24
hi sancho,
I am sorry, but my website was not updated for a longer time.
Here are some links to my latest videos on youtube:
1. Making round tenons with the cms routing module ( sure you can use any router table
):
Festool - Runde Zapfen anfräsen
2. An articel teaser video on building a shoe cabinet with finger joint hinges (I have wife and daughter so you all can imagine that this is a "great project"), and here is the video:
Viel Stauraum für noch mehr Schuhe!
3. Two teaser videos on building a "premium router table", I think it was discussed here in another thread:
Der beste Frästisch aller Zeiten ?!
and the second part:
Voller Einsatz für den Premium-Frästisch!
In April there will be a new video on using the bandsaw with some clever selfmade jigs, you can watch it on the "holzwerken" channel, here is the link:
Hope you all like the videos and if you have questions let me know.
Enjoy it and best regards
Guido
I am sorry, but my website was not updated for a longer time.
Here are some links to my latest videos on youtube:
1. Making round tenons with the cms routing module ( sure you can use any router table
):Festool - Runde Zapfen anfräsen
2. An articel teaser video on building a shoe cabinet with finger joint hinges (I have wife and daughter so you all can imagine that this is a "great project"), and here is the video:
Viel Stauraum für noch mehr Schuhe!
3. Two teaser videos on building a "premium router table", I think it was discussed here in another thread:
Der beste Frästisch aller Zeiten ?!
and the second part:
Voller Einsatz für den Premium-Frästisch!
In April there will be a new video on using the bandsaw with some clever selfmade jigs, you can watch it on the "holzwerken" channel, here is the link:
Hope you all like the videos and if you have questions let me know.
Enjoy it and best regards
Guido
Guido said:
[doh]
LOL! Is that the lid from a bulk pack of CDs/DVDs that you're using for the clear guard over the router bit?
Please stop making everything look so easy... my wife might get the wrong impression about my productivity.
Guido
Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2011
- Messages
- 24
Hi fritter,
yes its a DVD lid, you can get it in different heights (10, 25 and 50 DVDs). You can also get a commercial version of this guard from festool for the CMS Router Table Module (costs in germany about 50 Euros see this link on ebay: http://www.ebay.de/itm/FESTOOL-Bogenfraeshaube-BF-OF-CMS-Nr-494643-/350117175161).
This Fence is for routing curved workpieces an it is much more safer than a pivot pin, because you guide the workpice in a forward motion on a straight piece of plastic into the bit, Therefore its nearly imposible to get kickback. Pivoting the piece into the bit is a lttle bit more tricky, and if you dont move the workpiece forward when you reach the bit you can get a massive and dangerous kickback.
The selfmade guard costs less than 5 Dollars and about 2 hours work - its very easy to built, really helpful and worth to bult it.
Best Regards
Guido
yes its a DVD lid, you can get it in different heights (10, 25 and 50 DVDs). You can also get a commercial version of this guard from festool for the CMS Router Table Module (costs in germany about 50 Euros see this link on ebay: http://www.ebay.de/itm/FESTOOL-Bogenfraeshaube-BF-OF-CMS-Nr-494643-/350117175161).
This Fence is for routing curved workpieces an it is much more safer than a pivot pin, because you guide the workpice in a forward motion on a straight piece of plastic into the bit, Therefore its nearly imposible to get kickback. Pivoting the piece into the bit is a lttle bit more tricky, and if you dont move the workpiece forward when you reach the bit you can get a massive and dangerous kickback.
The selfmade guard costs less than 5 Dollars and about 2 hours work - its very easy to built, really helpful and worth to bult it
.Best Regards
Guido
