Building Kitchen Cabinets

[donwon]

I am planning on building some new kitchen and built in cabinets for my new house.  I know this takes considerable time and trying to reduce that so I can spend more time sitting on the deck  [big grin]

My plan was to build boxes with shaker doors.  Here are some of the questions I have.

- What is the quickest way to build a box?  I was thinking parallel guides to knock the sheet goods down to size, MFT table to cut to length, Dominos to join the sides and top, LR32 for the hinges, slides and shelf pins
- What is the best way to edge band? I was going to use cabinet grade melamine or prefinished maple.  Is the typical iron on the fastest or is there something better out there?  I was thinking of using the OF1010 with the trimming attachment to trim the banding, simply because I own it. Trying to minimize any new tool purchases too.
- How to optimize the door stiles and rails?  I was going to use the Freud adjustable bits.  http://www.freudtools.com/p-429-premier-adjustable-rail-amp-stile-bits.aspx .  Do you run long sections through the router table or cut to length first?
- How to finish the doors? I was going to make them out of poplar with plywood inserts.  What is the best way to paint them for a factory look?
- Best trim to finish the job?  Any ideas for adding some trim to help spruce up the look?  How do you make / install it?  I have the Kapex and love it!
- Any hints / tips in making this a production line setup?  I want to spend time to plan this out so it is all more repetitive cuts and setup is only once. 

I have watched quite a few of the videos by erock and Kreg.  Great tips in videos  ;D but just looking for some overall advice. 

Thanks for any input!! 

 

[Kev]

I'm completely ignorant of the materials available in your neck of the woods, but I will throw in that FastEdge may be a time saver from what I've seen about (haven't used it myself.

Something else I'll contribute to - finishing ... you need a contamination free environment for the best chance of a good finish. Are you going to paint stuff or what?

I'll keep an eye on this thread for info for me. I have a kitchen build in my future.

 

[erock]

Quickest way to build a box is butt joints.  The Domino combined with pocket screws will give you a nice strong butt joint.

You mentioned the Parallel guides, MFT/3, Domino and LR32.....sounds like you have a very good understanding on what you need to produce the cabinet

parts. 

For speed on the edge banding, Fastcap Fast Edge  might be the quickest way to edge band something without buying a edge banding machine.

I would run longer  rails and styles on the router table.  As long as your stock it true and flat and you have good support for in feed and out feed.

Personally,  After I figure the width and height of my doors, I cut my stock for the rails and styles for each door to a manageable  piece leaving them at lease

100mm longer then I need.  Route all the rails first then styles.  Keeping all the parts marked/labeled through out the process.  This way I'm working with

smaller manageable pieces and my rails/styles for each door will line up correctly.  If your stock has a bow or twist in it you're door will be a pain to assemble.

So if you're getting your poplar lumber from Lowe's or HD, just be sure too check and double check each board for good boards.  Their boards are already

3/4" (19mm) thick, to running them thru a planner to flatten will obviously make the door thinner, and you need at lease 15mm for the cup hinges if you're

using concealed hinges.  And if you're building the cabinets in the garage, the poplar can moved on you when you get it into the house and it adjust to

the humidity levels.  Trust me, I know.  That's why I stopped buying lumber from the big box stores.

When I built my kitchen cabinets I tried to make it a "production line".  I made a detailed cut list.  Every cabinet had a number, every part had a letter.

Used the Parallel guides to cut the cabinets to the depth that I wanted.  Then used the OF1400 to route the dado the full length of the plywood

for my back panels.  Then cut the cabinet parts to size on the MFT/3.  Followed by the Domino and then pocket jig.  Followed by edge banding.  Then

drill out for the adjustable shelving. And assemble the box. 

I'm not a painter, so I will give no advise on how to finish the cabinets.  Just make sure the dust is settled before you start painting.

Eric   

 

[sancho57]

I used to go through the hassels of routing rabbits ad dados etc, then I saw this video by Joe fusco.



In the conversations I had with Joes (RIP) he lead down the festool path. I blame him for getting drinking the green kool aid.

Anyway he has a complete series which I started using and its fast and easy and very strong. he uses butt joints and screws.

I have since changed a few of my methods such as using the domino 500, adding 2 dominos per joint for strength and alignment and using the 1010 for trimming edge banding and using the PGs for ripping the ply ILO of a table saw. Joesph Fusco.or has a complete series including how to cut crown. He has a crown calc on his site that is phenomial and has been used in a number of books Gary Katz has used in his book and videos on crown, applying edge banding, staining the edge banding .

He even has a short video on how to repair the groove in the MFT.

These are older videos as Joe passed a few years ago. But his methods are easily adapted to using all the festools as well as non festools.

I suggest every can learn from these videos. he was quite remarkable and gave his knowledge out freely.

I miss the conversations we used to have. I gleened alot from him.

Still do with his videos.

Check out josephfusco1960 on utube

 

[sancho57]

Another on assembly

like I said, I use dominos to align the sides. Joe uses pin nails. I this was made predomino I think.

 

[panelchat]

i'm on eroks wavelength here-
i'd be a little nervous building doors without having milled the lumber down myself.

here's some of my efficiency tricks, maybe some will be of value to you-

draw all panel parts up on a print list- visual layout, all parts nested, for efficiency both in material and in planning out track saw cuts ahead of time. (redoing, adjusting little cuts is easy w table saw, slow/annoying w trac saw)

added a starret tape to the mft fence, and a little plexiglass add on to the flag stop with a hairline on it so i can set dimensions for cuts like on a table saw fence. much faster.

tinker w the mft setup as necessary to get it really as square a possible. square parts means easier, faster assembly.

i suggest edgetaping as well as any dados on the long panel stock, after parallel guide cuts, before cross cutting. this eliminates end trimming of edgetape ad gives a perfect result at the same time. These days I add to this step all sanding, and first of two wipe on finish coats. final coat goes on toward the end.

pre finished (or laminate) cabinet box material means no sanding+finishing on the majority of the surface area of the whole job- big time saver.

ordering doors, finished or unfinished, form a good door factory is a giant time saver and can be very cheap, if you are in to subbing out things.

screws are great for assembling boxes. screws + lamello or domino + glue = good fastening plus alignment (or- some will hate me for this: even no glue!) means no clamping, no glue cycle time, no space taken up in work space with clamp ends sticking out everywhere. just screw the box together, glue or not, and stack the boxes neatly off in a corner on a nice level surface, out of the way. big help in small spaces.

good luck!

 

[sancho57]

Sometimes is best to order the doors. Outsourcing can be cost effective.

 

[ccarrolladams]

I am planning on building some new kitchen and built in cabinets for my new house.  I know this takes considerable time and trying to reduce that so I can spend more time sitting on the deck  [big grin]

My plan was to build boxes with shaker doors.  Here are some of the questions I have.

- What is the quickest way to build a box?  I was thinking parallel guides to knock the sheet goods down to size, MFT table to cut to length, Dominos to join the sides and top, LR32 for the hinges, slides and shelf pins
- What is the best way to edge band? I was going to use cabinet grade melamine or prefinished maple.  Is the typical iron on the fastest or is there something better out there?  I was thinking of using the OF1010 with the trimming attachment to trim the banding, simply because I own it. Trying to minimize any new tool purchases too.
- How to optimize the door stiles and rails?  I was going to use the Freud adjustable bits.  http://www.freudtools.com/p-429-premier-adjustable-rail-amp-stile-bits.aspx .  Do you run long sections through the router table or cut to length first?
- How to finish the doors? I was going to make them out of poplar with plywood inserts.  What is the best way to paint them for a factory look?
- Best trim to finish the job?  Any ideas for adding some trim to help spruce up the look?  How do you make / install it?  I have the Kapex and love it!
- Any hints / tips in making this a production line setup?  I want to spend time to plan this out so it is all more repetitive cuts and setup is only once. 

I have watched quite a few of the videos by erock and Kreg.  Great tips in videos  ;D but just looking for some overall advice. 

Thanks for any input!! 

Building custom cabinets for high-end places is what I do and have done since just after WWII.

My first suggestion is to buy yourself a few books on cabinet design and construction.

I would also pay attention to advice already given: I can understand that you want to learn how to build various kinds of cabinet doors and coordinating drawer fronts. Nearly all profitable cabinet shops purchase drawer boxes from the catalogs of vendors who specialize. While none that I deal with sell to DIY, most of the better lumber years and big box stores do retail drawer boxes. The same is true of cabinet doors.

Concentrate on the basic construction principles, then worry about construction methods.

You mention Shaker-style doors. Does this mean you will be building cabinets with face frames? I have specialized in Euro-style frameless cabinets since 1949 and not one customer has ever requested a Shaker-style door for them. Of course we do build face-frame cabinets and a small percentage of those have Shaker-style doors.

Your Festools will make cabinet construction so much less frustrating!

 

[donwon]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.  Some good tips to take away.

Has anyone used the fastedge?  I watched the video and it seems too easy  [big grin]

I looked at premade doors and they seem expensive so I was going to look into having someone spray the doors professional.

Does anyone have advice on making the drawers or adjustable fronts?

Thanks!!!

 

[JoggleStick]

Have you watched @erocks videos on the LR32 system?
In one of those videos he explains and describes the adjustable fronts. You should watch them all because there's a lot you can glean from his vids because of his thorough approach- regardless of whether you want to use the LR32 system or not.

Your problem is that there are many, many ways to do the job right, to skin the cat, as they say. So, very broad questions are not easy to answer simply. There are a large number of books written on the subject- and they only really scratch the surface.... Because they drill down into specific workflows that particular Author favours...

I hope that doesn't sound like I'm trying to put you off, cause I'm actually trying to help you the best way I can.

I'm saying you need to do the 'research' into whether you want Face-Frame or Euro style cabinets. Next, your layout and finish, hardware, door styles and finishes, bench tops, etc, etc. I only say this because you may not realise it, but your questions have already been answered in several ways.

Like, I've said, it's not at all easy to answer a very broad question simply, because the answer is at least several books deep, depending on which way you want to go?
I hope that helps....

Without wanting to sound cocky, the answer keeps changing too- new materials or finishes, techniques, etc. even a new tool (Domino) that can completely change the way you work.... The answers really never end. You just need to 'decide' for yourself which way you want to go and jump right in...

If that sounds at all confusing, intimidating or overwhelming, then you'll immediately appreciate why several people have mentioned 'Flat-pack' Kitchens. Yes, at first glance the price may seem high compared to the 'raw' material cost... BUT once you start to appreciate ALL of the questions that have been answered by using them... Once you try and make them yourself, and discover what it takes to producethe finished product...you'll appreciate this...

 

[MSgtRick]

Sommerfeld Tools For Wood sells a series of DVDs on cabinet building. I've used his system for years with outstanding results.

 

[JonSchuck]

Sommerfeld Tools For Wood sells a series of DVDs on cabinet building. I've used his system for years with outstanding results.

Me too and now those videos are free on YouTube.  He has an excellent device for installing drawer fronts perfectly.  His methods aren't nearly as quick and easy (at least for me) as he claims but the results are good.  I bought a lot of his stuff before stumbling onto the green kool-aid.  A lot of his tongue-and-groove and pocket screws could be done with the domino.

 

[pugilato]

Just finished building a kitchen using Joe Fuscos cabinet building techniques. To make it go faster, I would recommend the Fastcap edgebanding, get a good HVLP spray gun, and use water based finishes. I spent countless hours "ironing" the edgebanding to the cabinets. Since solvent-based finishes dry slowly, I was never able to catch up with limited space available.

 

[sancho57]

Since Im moving I got rid a of butt load of tools. One of them was my spraying rig. I still was able to finish some last minute projects with good results, just wipeing on the w/b stain and brushing the finish on.

I used general finishes stain and enduro finish. The w/b lacquer seemed to go on pretty nice