Buy & Return Festool Planex or Rent Porter Cable?

[AlexThePalex]

Is it "morally wrong"? Yes a little, but let's be honest nobody is going to be scarred for life, physically harmed, etc, etc.

So if I take your watch or your car it is ok because you didn't get hurt physically?

So, whilst it is probably not the most morally correct thing to do, at the same time let's not go overboard on the soapbox attitudes or cry a river for Festool or their dealers.

It is destroying somebody else's property for your own personal gain. On purpose. Makes no difference that Festool is a big company that could take the hit without problem.  Civilised people don't do that kind of stuff. It is not as if we're talking about a poor man taking a bread to feed his starving children.

Festool's price fixing is just a morally incomprehensible as what we're talking about here, but you never correct one wrong with another.

 

[SittingElf]

From my view.... Karma is inescapable. And BAD Karma will result from the OP's intent.

I don't think this is a "gray" area. It's clearly fraud, whether by contract, or by intent.

My  [2cents]

Frank

 

[Locks14]

Is it "morally wrong"? Yes a little, but let's be honest nobody is going to be scarred for life, physically harmed, etc, etc.

So if I take your watch or your car it is ok because you didn't get hurt physically?

So, whilst it is probably not the most morally correct thing to do, at the same time let's not go overboard on the soapbox attitudes or cry a river for Festool or their dealers.

It is destroying somebody else's property for your own personal gain. On purpose. Makes no difference that Festool is a big company that could take the hit without problem.

a) You're talking about different legal aspects. Paying for something then returning it within the return period within the terms of that return policy isn't illegal - you couldn't arrest/prosecute/take to court over this scenario. Taking my watch or car is illegal - you could be arrested/prosecuted and taken for court for this.

b) Nothing is being "destroyed" simply being used for its intended purpose. The fact they are a big company and the net effect of offering the return policy makes them more money than it costs, is relevant.

Finally, as I said I don't necessarily agree with what the OP suggests, in fact I'm the opposite - half the time I'm too lazy to return things and if I do buy something expensive it's because I see the value in owning it long-term. My point was let's not go overboard and blow the situation out of proportion. 

 

[AlexThePalex]

b) Nothing is being "destroyed" simply being used for its intended purpose. The fact they are a big company and the net effect of offering the return policy makes them more money than it costs, is relevant.

A brand new tool is worth a lot more than a used tool full of dust. That's a direct destruction of value. Festool's return policy is for people who are genuinly not satisfied with the tool. Not for people looking for a free loner.

a) You're talking about different legal aspects. Paying for something then returning it within the return period within the terms of that return policy isn't illegal - you couldn't arrest/prosecute/take to court over this scenario. Taking my watch or car is illegal - you could be arrested/prosecuted and taken for court for this.

I really don't hope your definition of what you can and can't do is solely determined by the fact that you can be arrested for it.

My point was let's not go overboard and blow the situation out of proportion.

I don't hear any sirens ringing. People just saying it's not ok.

 

[Locks14]

b) Nothing is being "destroyed" simply being used for its intended purpose. The fact they are a big company and the net effect of offering the return policy makes them more money than it costs, is relevant.

A brand new tool is worth a lot more than a used tool full of dust. That's a direct destruction of value. Festool's return policy is for people who are genuinly not satisfied with the tool. Not for people looking for a free loner.

a) You're talking about different legal aspects. Paying for something then returning it within the return period within the terms of that return policy isn't illegal - you couldn't arrest/prosecute/take to court over this scenario. Taking my watch or car is illegal - you could be arrested/prosecuted and taken for court for this.

I really don't hope your definition of what you can and can't do is solely determined by the fact that you can be arrested for it.

My point was let's not go overboard and blow the situation out of proportion.

I don't hear any sirens ringing. People just saying it's not ok.

It happens all the time in life. Women don't take the tags off an expensive dress as return it after a wedding, etc. People part-exchange cars everyday and don't disclose every fault to the dealer. It's just a fact of life and a cost of doing business that is accounted for in an overall business plan.

For me what I find more unpalatable is droves of users jumping on their soap box defending a multinational corporation in true fanboy style, than the immorality of the OP's plan itself. 

 

[andy5405]

No real need for a debate on this one, just a four letter word: ****

Work it out.

 

[Kevin McConville]

**********************************
"It happens all the time in life. Women don't take the tags off an expensive dress as return it after a wedding, etc. People part-exchange cars everyday and don't disclose every fault to the dealer. It's just a fact of life and a cost of doing business that is accounted for in an overall business plan."
**********************************

I truly hope you are just saying this to get reactions and don't actually think that theft is an acceptable cost of doing business that just needs to be accounted for in a business plan.

Every one of those examples is directly equivalent to taking the watch - just from a business and not from an individual and yes Festool could take legal action against someone who purchased the tool under fraudulent intents which this plan clearly is.

I'm assuming that those that think this is ok or otherwise not illegal think that it would be ok to buy a tool from say Bosch giving the person a check against an account they closed and then use the tool they bought for a few weeks until the person / company came and repossessed it and said "it's all good they got their property back so I've done nothing illegal, nobody can charge / sue me".

The logic being put forward is astounding

 

[shed9]

No real need for a debate on this one, just a four letter word: ****

Work it out.

What he said ^

I think the OP got the point, fraud is bad and posting the intent of fraud on a public platform hosted by the intended victim is just plain dumb.

 

[promark747]

Unless the Planex holds its value differently than other Festools, couldn't you re-sell it for at least 80-90% of the purchase price, which would be the equivalent of renting?  Your "exhaustive" research should have led you to this option.

 

[semenza]

Lets take it easy here. Especially since the OP hasn't replied yet.

      And I don't think this topic should be turned into a debate about theft, morals and such in general, especially if people are going to start calling each other out on it. That will just lead to a big flame war and lots of irritated, mad, unhappy people.

Like shed9 said .... I am sure he really just wants us to convince him to buy it.  [wink]

Seth

FOG Moderator

 

[mlfaber]

Good thing we are not an opinionated bunch!  [eek]

 

[jbair]

EWWWeee! Lots of mighty high horses out there. Quite frankly, the idea of buying and reselling the tool had NOT occurred to me. Understand, if it were really my intent to scam Festool with the plan proposed, I would not have posted it here. I will tell you that I half expected some kind of reply from a Festool Rep to discourage or encourage the maneuver. I mean, how do I know they wouldn't suggest to do this and bet that I would keep the tool once having used it. It's not like I can go to Woodcraft and try the product out. Maybe that is, in fact, the point of the return policy. It doesn't "feel" right, I stated that in my original post, but where else can I determine if the product is worth $1150.00 in my life. My real intent was to find out the bottom line approach to the money back guarantee. I mean the price objection to most Festools can easily be overcome with the salesperson suggesting a no risk trial period. We hear this all the time. Hell, car companies are jumping on board with this offer. Is there a Festool dealer that offers a demo model? Those who felt threatened that this approach would ruin it for everyone, or cost them more in the long run are blatantly full of crap. I will consider purchasing and reselling the Planex when completed, but it looks like everyone that has tried to resell these for 80-90% of original value were unsuccessful at selling them. Most were moved for closer to 60%, now I have to determine if the rental of $460.00 plus consumables is a fair cost for what I have to accomplish. BTW, to be honest, I've hesitated posting this for several months, but just couldn't resist stirring the **** pot, just a little. LOL
Jim

 

[deepcreek]

Rationalizing and trolling.  What a combination!  [wink]

I don't think recommending the ethical choice puts anyone on a high horse unless they wouldn't follow their own advice.

Seriously, do whatever you want.  It's a free country.  Live and let live.

 

[jbair]

"Rationalizing and Trolling", really? All that's left is "judging" and I'd cover all the bases. All who suggested what "they" would do are comments I appreciate and will consider. Anyone condemning is pretty much talking from a hilltop, and I can't hear you!
Thanks
Jim

 

[ewils91]

Why would anyone post a question like this other than to create hate and discontent?  [blink]

 

[jbair]

Well maybe you could direct me to a forum where I could post questions on obtaining and using Festool products. I'd gladly move my post to that sight if it's more appropriate. Does anyone know why Festool offers a risk free money back guarantee? Or rather, does anyone know of a forum where I should post this type of query?

 

[tbellemare]

I loaned my Planex & harness along with my CT 36 AC over the holiday weekend to a good customer to try on a room in his house. He wanted to experiment with removing texture.

I came to the shop briefly on Monday (Veteran's Day) and he caught me here. He didn't want me to leave until he could buy a Planex, harness, CT 36 AC, cradle, and consumables to take home.

It's a cool machine...

Tom

 

[Kevin McConville]

Silly me - I read this part of your post "there is absolutely NO WAY to justify the expense of purchasing this tool for my life" and took it for what it said.  Clearly my mistake for believing anything here.

 

[semenza]

This thread is going no where except down the tubes.

No need for a continued and escalating flame war.

Seth